How did punters win before the internet?

they make more now, i'd imagine, with the internet giving compulsives 27/7 access to gambling. The internet now also marks the bookies card for them.

24/7 :)

I simply do not know Mr Shape, I dunno.

it can only be inside info can it not buzzer?

SHAPESHIFTER 29 Apr 13:31


I sit here with my spreads, filters, feeds, analysis, news, all popping up on three screens.

How did punters win before the internet?



Because the bookies didn't have access to that stuff either and the prices were comical.

It only feels like 27!

Yesterday, two bets:

One Swedish football. Able to research form, team news, match reports.

One horse back: Used track stats and analysis to choose best track to take on. Narrowed down to best races based on tracks, chose a 9/4 winner (French Art).

Today, three horses selected using (a) track stats to find best races to take on then (b) a RACK of info from speed to past races/competitors.

There is no way I could have made any of those bets pre-internet.

Lori, but aren't the stats pretty consistent with "33%" of faves winning?

By the way, I am sure that everyone agrees; that 33% stat is a smoke screen once you start looking at tracks/goings/conditions/types of races.

I remember that Tyson was 1/3 here and Bruno was 9/1 in the USA for instance. Good luck finding that arb and getting on in size these days :D

Three "net researched" bets today. Three more being looked (football and evening horses)

310 Folk: back Beat The Bell: Strike rate under conditions and distance around 45% on fave's so looked at three races that hit that mark. Selected Beat The Bell. Able to discount 6th place finish. Sophie Doyle gives 5lbs. Race comparison indicated strong fields in previous as opposed to 2F Cornus who has won two races (looks good in the betting shop) but against weaker fields. Beat The Bell consistant performer over Good To Firm while Cornus doesn't like the going as much.

330 Redcar back Logos Astra: Track carries strong stats with 7F to 1 Mile for faves. Smaller fields, an advantage. Eliminating the 7F Maiden, went for this race. Speed ratings pretty equal but Logos Astra intervals strong early and progressive compared to Don't Call Me. Don't Call Me - one race/one win but that race has only produced one winner since. The rest of field tend to under race on going.

600 Brighton LAY Print: Statistically, when the going is Good to Firm or Firm at Brighton, the form book works for the bookies. And in the 6:00, Print, who won last time out, is likely to be one of their trump cards. Winning last time out puts it at 3/1 on this afternoons card. But value exists further down the board. Kipchak raced through the winter and finished 4th seven days ago in a similarly rated field. My Learned Friend tackles the going well, has course and distance experience and won at Brighton last July. Like Kipchak, Billberry raced through the winter and has shown a consistent finishing style and will come into the mix during the finishing furlongs. The surprise could come from Avertis who, like My Learned Friend, enjoys the going and could benefit from the step back in distance since the early pace is always there but the finish has been the problem. Definitely a race to look for EW value. Rate this one My Learned Friend/Kipchak/Billberry making Print the lay for the day.


All from research via the net.

Lori 29 Apr 13:54


SHAPESHIFTER 29 Apr 13:31


I sit here with my spreads, filters, feeds, analysis, news, all popping up on three screens.

How did punters win before the internet?



Because the bookies didn't have access to that stuff either and the prices were comical.

Correct Lori

Absolutely, this used to be an easy game.

Got it. I try to learn every day and today is no exception.

When did the internet start?

I was playing MUDs in 1990 and I don't think I was much of a frontrunner in such things :D

hornets1988 29 Apr 15:40
When did the internet start?

First time I saw it was in 1992. Everything was through the "alt" posting boards (in Canada, atleast).

alt.music
and
alt.sex

is all I remember :)

Bilberry is very well-handicapped in BTN 6.00

EVEN money for a place.........u like your EVENS shots, fill your boots

alt.fan.kate-moss
and alt.alien.visitors

are the two that spring to mind here :^0

Oh then i was to young then, but i have always used the net to help me for stats/peoples opinons etc

I.quit.my.job 29 Apr 17:44
Bilberry is very well-handicapped in BTN 6.00

EVEN money for a place.........u like your EVENS shots, fill your boots

rating on the race had My Learned Friend as the value EW to support the lay.

Print UP :)

well done maybe not for me but well done.......where did bilberry finish? no pics here......off out for some beers have a nice evening

Billbury 5th / 2 lengths

Print....10th/10 :) :) :)

nice one. Reading RP quotes looks like Bilberry made a mess of start and started to run on towards the end. One to maybe recoup losses next time he runs.

Im having success laying my top-rated which sounds bizarre but they are top-rated because they have ALREADY shown their best form and are often great value to lay. They run decent races, alot finish 2nd or 3rd so it's still early days (30 races so far). They always shorten too during the day (punters back form horses I guess). So trading them as a back to lay aiming for 10 ticks works nicely.

Today's horse is Kings Destiny (4.55 Ling). A trappy looking contest where Desert Creek is a stand-out lay with my book.

What do you think of this staking plan;

trading top-rated bet to lay (10 ticks with 10 tick stop loss) 20% stakes
laying top-rated and stand-out value 5% liability
dutch betting no2,3,4,5 etc. rated to make even money 1% stakes

I've been playing around with it and I need a 60% winning strike-rate to make it pay (2 out of 3 green races)

u make 20% of stake profit with a ten tick winning trade...........my top-rated have never drifted more than ten ticks so far

it works out at roughly +70 -90 best/worst case scenerio

also do you think posting here affects the markets one iota?

I remember 20 years ago the golfer mark james being offered at 16/1 with one bookmaker and 125/1 with another for the order of merit when he had a very realistic chance of being the number one golfer in that particular season .

Sports betting didn't seem very sophisticatedly organied two decades ago, it was largelly a small unimportant off-shoot from bookmaking, which many in the laying business saw as pretty insignificant and not worthy of much attention.

my grandad was a simple labourer with one passion.
he used to make money on the horses, then they banned him from the shops.
then he sent his sons in, and they banned them.
then he sent his daughters in, and they banned them.
then he sat and paper traded, looking at what he could have won.

if he was alive today with the exchanges he would be a legend.

I.quit.my.job 30 Apr 14:23
nice one. Reading RP quotes looks like Bilberry made a mess of start and started to run on towards the end. One to maybe recoup losses next time he runs.

Leave the loss behind, iqmj. Placing a post-t and saying "next time I will recoup" is wrong since the conditions next time may be different.

Im having success laying my top-rated which sounds bizarre but they are top-rated because they have ALREADY shown their best form and are often great value to lay.

I use a similar flag for football. Top rated teams are laid if below a certain range AND competing with a team where their performance has progressed a certain percent.

What do you think of this staking plan;

To each their own. But people always talk about plans where they trade out green. They never talk about trading out red.

also do you think posting here affects the markets one iota?

It used to more. Teams used to work ramping the horse market during the day around 4 years ago. Very organized and became very obvious. people on all forums do follow certain people. Others search the forums for bets when they are looking for a bet.

But ramping less and less obvious among the forumites since more often than not, someone will read through the bull and post accordingly.

For amusement, though, Money Tree on the football forum; I cannot believe that any individual has more ability to post the "opposite result" ever on outcomes. It is almost mystical :)

Someone on a streak of 18 bets (makes the 1.0X backers here look like kids ;) )

Notice most of his success comes from backing home teams. Something to learn from.

http://contests.covers.com/SportsContests/Survivor/profile.aspx?userID=273369

25 = 100,000

time for him to start arbing.