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the optimist - try:
integrityteam@betfair.com |
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Every minute that goes by in running the pool of money owned collectively by the punters is diminishing. The pool of money owned by Betfair is increasing. By the end of the event the difference is going to be significant. Now if you can't see why that disadvantages every punter active in that market then there is no hope for you.
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"You clearly have a vested interest"
LOL, of course not, its just your paranoid. I simply just don't understand. It seems you have a bigger interest than me judging by your comment, did you previously skim the overbroke books? |
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tell me how a bot would operate in a 2 outcome inplay event then curlywurly? A tennis match or a 1 day cricket match.
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"The pool of money owned by Betfair is increasing"
But Betfair have clearly stated they have no positions in the market? |
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"pablo"
Thanks, some sense at last thank you for distilling it down to a couple of lines. I'll can carry on today with a clear mind as it obviously wont affect me. |
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The Magician (1) 07 Mar 18:18
Has anyone done the following ten times..... if you can actually do it... find a market that you can make go overround enter the back bet that makes the Lay percentage go 102, but in the same submission (can you bakc and lay in the APi at the same price) lay that bet at the same price. if you back gets done 10/10 and your lay never - then there is cue jumping going on This explains my 1.10 bet being taken. Gets worse by the day. So even though they can bet instantly just in case that isn't enough betfair have a facility where they can now get to the front of the queue first ffs. This is theft. |
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Golga
It is very simple. Lets say i requst 2. When my bet hits the screen the prices are 2.5 and 2.Previously my bet would be matched at 2.5. Now I am matched at 2 with the guy ofering 2.5 and BF pocket the difference coutesy of their bet matching software not being subject to the 5s delay like all other users. No one else has the chance to take the arb as everdody else has to wait 5s. BF take the arb instantly.Easy money for them , worse prices for everbody else and zero chance of getting out of a rick. |
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that is totally wrong, morris! you still mop up the 2.5 and any 2 on the player you are backing . BUT if any is left over and there is a lay on the other player (in a 2 player market) available at, say, 1.8, you will then only get 2
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Did you understand that golga ? Morris last example. Did you understand it ?
Will you be back in half an hour to muddy the waters ? I have never skimmed, botted or anything else, but I detest squirming miserable cretins like you. |
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it's is very easy to make a co*k up explaining this.. you got it wrong there morris. you need to make the distinction that is it on the other player.
2 way market. 2.5 being layed on PLAYER A. Nothing being backed on PLAYER B. You make the mistake (rather a big one) of laying Evens on PLAYER B. You get stuffed with the lay of evens, "Betfair" matches you, and also matches the 2.5 on PLAYER A, thus making a free profit. ... They do not trade on a single outcome, but they take the profit from the book. However if viewed in time order, you can in fact make it out to be just as sinister. Certainly the result is the same. |
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I should say..
you make the mistake of *offering to lay PLAYER B at evens. |
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Yes you are right I didn't explain well .
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steady, can you give me a call please mate
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How about an option box to allow betfair to match bets, yes or no. If they are really on interested in the customer, then they should have no problem with this funtion
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marcus - could u drop me a mail @ bayesian@ the hot one.co.uk
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It is quite unbelievable that betfair had the guts to implement this, as we tried to warn them of the risks on that other thread "Calling bot".
I suppose their arrogance did not permit them to absorb that information. |
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That sounds a whole lot like one of my predictions btw.
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its just greed medemi. Theyre beginning to think of themselves less as the neutral party who just keep the money and pay the winners. Now they want to play the game too. They dont just want to be referee anymore taking a cut at the end they want to be in every market creaming money away.
Its a short step from this to employing their own traders to manipulate markets and use the information from our betting patterns against us. |
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Greed or good business policy, they should have known they can't get away with this. Which is amazing.
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If they keep taking money out of the markets then where will the money come from for us to bet with?
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marcus, i take it are trading this tennis, i will call you afterwards mate. hope you arent trading too much with betfair, hehe.
i just layed 9 on lopez for a laugh. with 1.24 available to back on roddick.. good old betfair. |
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i am mate, speak after that
so far: marcus 150.00, betfair 0.00 |
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only sharp minds are understanding the effect of betfair matching software. Those people who do straight betting or amateurs dont understand the profit or loss due to this activity.
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What markets are betfair skimming on? I know tennis. Been doing some in-running on the horses today and get the feeling they are doing it there as well.
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definitely football as well. The over/under 2.5 market is one which will be quite lucrative for them i suspect.
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morris 08 Mar 13:38
Golga It is very simple. Lets say i requst 2. When my bet hits the screen the prices are 2.5 and 2.Previously my bet would be matched at 2.5. If the price of 2.5 was available you would get it, this has not changed :0 |
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I've asked them if they are playing the boxing later tonight. A good percentage of the users will be drunk so I think they may wanna get involved.
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well they must have made at least 20k on ManU-Pmouth match odds market with this "very altruist engine" haha
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I think we can assume the lack of a public announcement after 48 hours since the betting public discovering they were up against BetFair code which skims the overround, means that this approach will continue for the forseable future.
BetFair are clearly happy with the status quo. |
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Once exchange owners start messing with the software code, using bots to mop up inefficient markets and not declaring any of this to the end-users, it throws the whole integrity of that exchange into question.
My question is, who is independently monitoring Betfair to ensure they are not exploiting the time delay on in-play bets, profiting from inefficient markets at the expense of the end-user and shadowing successful accounts? |
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There are many issues with Betfair taking the tick(s) in the middle - and I think there will be other issues when they don't take the tick(s)
but people are missing a couple of points in thier doomsday error scenarious (ie they enter the wrong price) 1) betfair will only get the leftover of the error once once the market on that selection has been absorbed 2) how much of the error they can then absorb will be limited by the depth of the other selection(s) so yes on a illiquid market you might get hammered, but on several,many, most occasions the market dept will protect you, and betfair will not get a look in but pinching the ticks does not look good, as no one was every told they would not be getting best execution - but the intended solution might not be as fesable as you think |
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The solution is certainly tricky. The best option may be to retain the difference, wait for the result and donate it to the winning side of the bet, splitting it according to price should there be more than 1 winner. Not easy at all.
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Magician.
at the moment they only look to arb after the traditional matching has been checked. what's to stop them doing this the other way around.... after all, you're still getting matched at the price you requested...... |
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not sure i get you grafec.
surely it works in exactly the same way as best execution works today. |
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I fail to see why the solution is tricky, just match me at the best available price
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DStyle
if they REALLY offer BEST execution on the event - they should do it the other way around. the FOC on the LHS, is not always the best execution so you back at 2.4, ( when 2.5 is avaiable) could be matched.... partly at 2.6 ( from reverse lays) step 1 of Best execution, until 2.5 becomes the best price partly at 2.5 in the market the remainder at 2.48 (from reverse lays again) |
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yep, you're right.
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this is madness they are doing this with 0 delay in a 5 sec delay environment .
Magican it's really not pennies and not about illiquid markets. In soccer match odds market InPlay the book happened to be overround almost all the time because of the quick moving of the odds on each outcome, decent sizes everywhere, but when people/bots had seen the overround generally they cancelled, modified their bets. Now you can't see this because there is this 'very altruist engine' which everyone shoul hail. |
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Dstyle - I was thinking more of the occasion when there are 3 outcomes to balance (it's easy with 2), but testing a few examples should clear up any problems.
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