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thats irrelevant, we'll forever be in championship/league 1 until we get sum investment, no point sackin laws, wouldn't get any1 better.
back to the point, how long can this "genius" go without winning a trophy? |
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Seems to me that everyone else has caught up with the 'professor's (rofl,pmsl,lol,etc) revolutionary training methods of actually training in the afternoon not going down the pub. Also evident that he's no longer getting the first pick of French youngsters. All things being a bit more equal he doesn't look that great as a manager now and as a man he's been quite a disgrace all along.
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Going back to the Chelsea game on Sunday. There weren't much between the teams. Chelsea were more efficient in the penalty box at each end.
The thing is though, how much money have they spent? and how many managers have they been through since Wenger has been at Arsenal, to get to where they are. As an Arsenal fan i don't want to go down the road of chucking money at the problem or sacking the manager every six months just because we've gone 3 games without a win. I'm looking forward to seeing the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey etc playing regulary in the future and no doubt Wenger will have some promising youngsters to follow them in the future. Wenger aint perfect, but we'd be much worse off without him. |
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i think he's an amazin man 4 convincing arsenal fans he's some sort of messiah but how long is it u lot have been blooding yougsters 4 now? 5 years without a trophy, whats happening?
im sick of hearing, he's won this in the past, he's done this in the past. as a fan what wud u rather have, cup finals and celebratin a league or a club that must make a steady profit regardless of what happens on the pitch? |
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Other than Chelsea and Man U, how many clubs have won trophies in the last 5 years?
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It makes me laugh when a Sheffield Wednesday fan can criticise someone like Wenger.
Lest we forget: 1992 Sheff Wed 3rd, Arsenal 4th 1993 Sheff Wed 7th, Arsenal 10th (teams met in both domestic cup finals) 1994 Arsenal 4th, Sheff Wed 7th 1995 Arsenal 12th, Sheff Wed 13th 1996 Arsenal 5th, Sheff Wed 15th 1997 Arsenal 3rd, Sheff Wed 7th (Wenger took over in the Autumn, with Vieira making his debut against Sheffield Wednesday who were top with 12pts from 5 games) now on that recent history, who would think that one club would win three league titles and four FA Cups (plus a CL and UEFA final) while the other sink into oblivion? |
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wow
sheff wed in being sh1t shock if that is ur argument it really is game over, that truly was priceless |
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popup
portsmouth liverpool tottenham |
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I knew you'ld come back with that one. Do they look like they might win a trophy again in the near future?
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do u?
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so if wenger had won the carling cup this season he would no longer be the most overrated manager ever?
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to be fair tottenham r lookin gud, liverpool cud still win the fa cup if they keep the big 2 fit n portsmouth r my pick to win the championship next year
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owl - why does it worry you that Arsenal fans are not upset with Wenger?
he's won 3 titles, 4 FA Cups, top 4 13 times in a row, reached k-o stage of CL last 10 years in a row. and the football quality is fantastic. and he has been instrumental in building the fab new stadium. and he has done all this while on a financial shoestring compared to other teams with this level of achievement. |
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Who is over-rating him?
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owl4life 03 Dec 12:24
wow sheff wed in being sh1t shock if that is ur argument it really is game over, that truly was priceless ------------------------ hmmm. football fan in being thick shock. the point is that Wenger (sorry two syllables) took a side just as poor as the one you like and made it win the league three times. can you im-ag-ine how much fun you would have had with him in charge of the owls? |
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i never said he was the most overrated manager ever, i just asked the question.
if he won the carling cup he wud have at least gave the fans sumthin back for the trophyless last five years. i appreciate arsenal r really well run, but when u look back in 10 years n u have nothin to show 4 it, is it all that great? sheff utd r well run, wouldn't b happy in championship tho wud ya? |
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I'm a United fan and I think he's a fantastic manager, he has his faults but then so do all managers.
Arsenal may well have won no trophies for 4 1/2 years but even the likes of Shankly and Busby went similar lengths of time without winning things and they didn't have teams with far more financial muscle to compete with. Were they poor managers? He has a way of operating and a style of play he sticks to which should be appreciated. As with Ferguson, I doubt anyone will really understand how good he is until he's gone. |
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sugarfoot
its a myth that wenger hasn't spent money, he has, just not all that recently. Sheff wed do not or haven't had the resources that arsenal have/had, yes when he first came he did a fantastic job but how long can u live on that? my point is not as a sheff wed fan its as a football fan, if a man u supporter made the same statements wud that make it right? ur argument for wenger is to compare arsenal to sheff wed n to call me names, not really compelling is it? Thing is i actually like arsenal, id love to c them win league and champs league but unless he stops relying on youth it wont happen. someone in another thread said if he does spend n he still doesn't win anything that will b his last excuse gone, maybe he's scared he'll be found out |
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digby
ferguson is already a legend anyway have to go out now, play nice now won't u |
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owl4life 28 Oct 20:35
im serious, how long does this guy have to go without winning a trophy before ppl realise they've won nothing in years. I agree he hasn't spent much, probably still haunted by the 8 million he spent on jeffers but he's cherry picked the best young talent 4 next to nothin. how many arsenal fans r seriously happy with finishin 4th? would you be happy with 4th??? would 90 clubs in the league be happy with 4th???? |
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3rd is usually the best arsenal will do given abramovich's spending, and man utd's financial muscle.
put chelsea out of the picture and Wenger would have won several trophies in the last 5 years- they have been bought away by the Russian money. tough, but that's life. |
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wenger would have been sacked a few years ago if they played a different style of football
its only that good football, pretty on the eye (who cares) that keeps him in a job ! why knock a cross in or have a shot from outside the box when you can pass 47 times and then nowt comes of it !! |
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If a club like Spurs or Villa finished 4th, it would be like winning the league for them.
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owls4life, are you joking about transfers?
Sheff Wed's transfers in 1996/1997 Player From Fee Date Scott Oakes Luton £ 425000 07-08-1996 Wayne Collins Crewe £ 600000 09-08-1996 Orlando Trustfull Feyenoord £ 750000 20-08-1996 Dave Hercock Cambridge C Free 01-09-1996 Benito Carbone Inter £ 3000000 14-10-1996 David Billington Peterborough £ 500000 03-04-1997 Mark McKeever Peterborough £ 500000 15-04-1997 Patrick Blondeau Monaco £ 1800000 24-06-1997 Players in Total: £ 7575000 Players out Total: £ 250000 Sheff Wed's transfers in 1997/1998 Player From Fee Date Paolo Di Canio Celtic £ 3000000 06-08-1997 Jim Magilton Southampton £ 1600000 09-09-1997 Bruce Grobbelaar Oxford Nominal 22-09-1997 Petter Rudi Molde £ 800000 02-10-1997 Derek Geary Rivermount Signed 17-11-1997 Niclas Alexandersson IFK Goth'burg £ 750000 05-12-1997 Alan Quinn Cherry Orchard Nominal 06-12-1997 Andy Hinchcliffe Everton £ 3000000 30-01-1998 Goce Sedloski Hajduk Split £ 750000 19-02-1998 Earl Barrett Everton Free 24-02-1998 Stuart Jones Weston s-M. £ 20000 26-03-1998 Emerson Thome Benfica Signed 26-03-1998 Francesco Sanetti Genoa Free 30-04-1998 Players in Total: £ 9920000 Players out Total: £ 5900000 so net spend for 1996-8 (Wenger's first two years) about £11m, ie slightly more than Wenger (ca £10m), and that's before Anelka was sold... |
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Arsenal Oldie...
3rd is usually the best arsenal will do given abramovich's spending, and man utd's financial muscle. put chelsea out of the picture and Wenger would have won several trophies in the last 5 years- they have been bought away by the Russian money. tough, but that's life. My sentiments exactly. If it wasn't for Wenger, Chelsea and Man U would not of had to spend the amount of money they have in the last 10 years to keep them at the top. |
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whats ur point sugar?
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it was a response to your earlier remark
--------------------------- owl4life 03 Dec 12:53 sugarfoot its a myth that wenger hasn't spent money, he has, just not all that recently. Sheff wed do not or haven't had the resources that arsenal have/had, ------------------------------- the point was that went Wenger arrived Arsenal and Sheff Wed had similar resources (in fact Sheff Wed outspent Arsenal by about £1m over the period 1996-98), and as pointed out earlier were performing at the same level. so try and imagine back to 1996 and think how good a manager would have to be to take Sheff Wed to three titles and four fa cups and keep them in the top four of English football for the next thirteen years. in fact forget all of that, how good would a manager have to be just to have got Wednesday one championship from that startpoint |
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Success in football is linked to wage bill - this has been proved statistically.
Arsenal have the 4th biggest wage bill (3rd before city's spending and 2nd before chelsea's spending). They may not spend much on transfers but they pay big, big money in wages. |
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if you look at the trophies that are played for each season individually then it's easy to realise why Arsenal haven't won anything for 5 years:
Carling Cup: fielded youngsters for experience, done pretty well considering but are never going to compete with the likes of Chelsea and Man U fielding near full strength teams FA Cup: always looked to rest a few players, probably been their best chance of winning a trophy but always come up short, usually against decent teams (Man U and Chelsea again) Champions League: never going to be easy against Europe's best, did well to reach a final but hard to compete with the likes of Barca, AC Milan etc. Premier League: ask any Man U and Chelsea fan (and player) what they expect to win each season? answer: The League. Always going to be tough against these teams with their financial clout and experienced players It's still dissappointing for Arsenal not to have won anything in 5 years but it's not easy, ok Tottenham and Portsmouth have won a trophy each in that time but they didn't have European football as a distraction |
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I've heard that a lot of arsenal's wage bill is based on things like bonuses for CL qualification. Which is pretty relevant, their basic wage paid is probably no more than half the sides in the prem.
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figures disclosed in the annual reports can be misleading too, some clubs just disclose player's wages, others include all playing staff (coaches, scouts, physios etc.) and I know that Arsenal's annual report includes these too
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u seem to forget that arsenal at the time were already a bigger club, still had more resources and still had more money, comparing arsenal to wednesday is futile and proves nothing, we cud have had ferguson, wenger and a genie that grants 3 wishes n we wud still have done feck all.
13m on wiltord? 8m on jeffers? he does spend how much for reyes? |
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surely the fact he's had not much money and kept top players nd in the top of the table all while moving grounds. when the extra revenue is transferable to the squad, it won't take much improving and that's a massive credit. also, most managers who do well with not much money don't play anywhere near as good football. plus, the fans turn up to be entertained, that's what this game is after all, and they win well the majority of the time. finally, league title undefeated...are you kidding?
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yea i suppose that season makes up 4 winning feck all 4 5 years
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yes, let's not forget that between 2001 and 2005 Wenger had created as good a team as there has ever been in this country, playing brilliant football and winning 5 of the 8 major domestic trophies (FA Cup and Prem League) in that 4 year period. Since then things haven't gone so well but he's generated a massive transfer surplus in that time and built a decent young side
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Occam's Razor 03 Dec 23:15
Success in football is linked to wage bill - this has been proved statistically. Arsenal have the 4th biggest wage bill (3rd before city's spending and 2nd before chelsea's spending). They may not spend much on transfers but they pay big, big money in wages. ------------------------- lol most wages are performance-linked, so the correlation is not a surprise. |
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u have owt to back that up sugar?
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wenger is a very talented man .
but not as a manager . as a producer of young players. is he the most overrated manager ever no but as cloughie would say he is in the top one. |
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put ur hard hat on
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preacher im sure u meant to say poacher of young players
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