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The Ballymurphy Massacre
The Ballymurphy Massacre
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Replies: 164
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They were part of the "trouble" as you say because they spoke up (civil right marches) against Northern Ireland being a protestant state for potestants only.
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I am not going to go over that nonsense again , we’ve covered that
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Look I’ve already explained the facts of how life was for that generation. young people Catholics and.protestants and the freedoms and rights and opportunities that they had , much greater than their parents or previous generations
To take a small example away fro the everyday to illustrate what was possible then for anyone , before the troubles Van Morrison , it seem a strange example , but it illustrates how things were He came from the same working class terrace houses in Belfast , at the same time , And everything was possible , everything |
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Of course it helped that he was a genius : )
But don’t forget , that was part of Britain Britain produced them |
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lfc1971, your naivety/stupidity never ceases to amaze me. It appears that once more you are the self appointed oracle on a subject that you know absolutely feck all about. Whats more; you are so close minded that your ignorance would shame a 6 year old. Did your mum never tell you two ears and one mouth........?
I did a history and politics degree and one of the subjects which I studied in great length was the politics of Northern Ireland. It was vastly more complicated than your crayon sketch of 'those bad men in the IRA/the people were lucky to be given every opportunity that being part of the British empire bestowed upon them......' Have you given any thought as to why the IRA progressed from a peaceful organisation campaigning for equality and opportunity (which Catholics clearly didn't have)? Of course, that is not to excuse their later atrocities. However, you must understand that they were a frustrated and poverty stricken community who struggled to find gainful employment, and, were very much 2nd class citizens downtrodden by a police force and politicians who hated and viewed them as antagonists as much as the protestant community itself did! The horrors at Ballymurphy and Derry were almost carbon copies of one another. Yet you don't think the slaying of innocent women and a priest at a time that the Paras were supposedly 'engaged in a (non existent) gun battle' is evidence of British command wrong doings? The parallels are eerily similar to the Hillsborough tragedy;a as we now know, was when football fans were viewed with suspicion, treated like animals and then at the hands of the authorities a huge cover up ensued after they themselves caused it! No doubt you said there was nothing to see there either and it was all the fans fault (in line with the police and governments official bullsh1t at the time). There have been numerous examples of wrong doings instigated from the very top and then covered up. I am glad that an ostrich like yourself can testify to what happened when his head is buried under the ground (or up his own ar$e if you would prefer). |
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Good Post Char , Regarding the Estate , there were similar Estates in England at the time High umemployment ETC
I would imagine that If people were Burning their Houses down a few Barricades May have been erected ,Would the Britsh Army have been deployed to shoot those residents ? BARRICADES ,An Armoured Bulldozer and a back up Vehicle could have been deployed to clear them Occasionally ,then turned around and Left ,No Go Areas  Walofs , Like many Dodgy Estates WTF would want to go there anyway ? There are more Gunmen and knifemen loose on London estates today then there ever were at Ballymurphy or Bogside , NO BARRICADES , I don't see to much armed action Going On against them.. |
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I am in no way taking anyside regarding the Troubles ,I have not lived through them and prefer not to comment , But When I see a Wrong I see a wrong ..
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The IRA has never been a peaceful organisation interested in equality , their aim is a United ireland and they have always used murder and bombing and terror and torture as a means to achieve that
So get your head out of your arse as regards that Poverty in the estate? It was no different to many estates right throughout the country then and now it has nothing to do with discrimination or pretendy civil rights And just as now there is no poverty , there people were able to raise large families then and now , and just as now you might point to certain estates or certain parts of the country were there are social problems , I can assure you they are no different now than they were then It is a very difficult thing to create a successful democratic society It’s not easy it’s m Try and understand that , look around No one is in poverty now and no one was then be thankful Hillsborough ? cover up , wevknow what happened at hills borough we always did know It was an accident , mistakes were made because that’s what can happen , so when you say that the British Army deliberatedly shot unarmed civilians in this estate which had IRA members without any gunfire from the estate over a 3 day period then I say you are a fool You must have been a very lazy student |
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You mention parallels with Derry , the IRA were there in Derry as well , McGuinness has admitted that the IRA were there and admitted that it was he who sparked Bloody Sunday with a single shot so stop talking nonsense about the IRA
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Blimey, I didn't know that!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/07/bloodysunday.northernireland |
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https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bloody-sunday-probe-should-include-martin-mcguinness-28768382.html
. Bloody Sunday: DUP call for Martin McGuinness to be questioned https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37328985 . https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287519/BLOODY-SUNDAY-INQUIRY-What-did-Martin-McGuinness-lost-25min.html . |
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McGuinness shot using a Thompson sub machine gun from Roseville flats
At the time he was a senior member of the IRA You forgot to mention that in your account didn’t you charwell |
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So where does that leave U2 with their hit song?
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You see in the 60s people protested in Britain that’s what they did
No one had the first clue what they were protesting about , maybe charwell was one of them |
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"No one had the first clue what they were protesting about"
Sounds like the Left of today! |
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Especially the gullible students and other youngsters.
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They were naive and stupid and led by the nose by other more sinister individuals
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Yet more parallels with today's Left ...
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If you look at any society you can find faults , that’s the case today throughout Britain
However there is nothing that cannot be addressed and hopefully improved Social problems are ongoing throughout the UK but it’s not about discrimination and civil rights We have been lucky in the UK to live in this free democracy as long as any of us have been alive With greater freedoms and rights and opportunities than any other country in the world , be thankful it’s not an easy thing to achieve , look around |
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Indeed. I can see that all changing in the next few years - especially if we are denied Brexit.
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People have voted on Brexit and to leave the EU, ultimately that has to be what happens
If and when N Ireland votes to leave the UK that must and will be respected also Those are the simple facts of democracy |
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What is so diffucult for people like charwell , and nationalists , and republicans and any other person to understand about that ?
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now when do we think the Irish Republic might vote for independence from Britain and stop insisting that they should have the automatic rights of British citizens to live and work in Britain
Sorry make your mind up do you want independence or not it’s been 100 years |
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That’s causing problems with Brexit as well of course , the Irish are like that
(more threats of possible violence because they don’t like the result of the democratic vote in the referendum ) |
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That will be the IRA again , with more claims of civil rights I don’t doubt
same as it ever was |
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There are more Gunmen and knifemen loose on London estates today then there
ever were at Ballymurphy or Bogside , NO BARRICADES , I don't see too much armed action Going On against them.. Here's your fookin Civil Rights Mob Above |
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Women,Priests,people shot in the back,it was nothing but wanton murder by the british army,deflect,ignore,but it happened and more than once.
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Men, women and children murdered by the IRA
They have never told the truth about any of the atrocities committed by the IRA No one , not McGuinness or Adams or any of those involved has told the truth and many remain to be told and the murderers brought to justice Until that happens then the Irish will have to keep quiet about the British Army , try and understand that |
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Now I could tell you the scene that was witnessed at one of these atrocities , a bombing in a pub by the IRA that would make your hair stand on end
So terrifying it was the BBC were told not to broadcast the full details of what was witnessed And they were right not to do so The people responsible for that have never been brought to juctice , the IRA command , people like McGuinness and Adams know Now until the truth is told about that then we will look at ourselves , good Let’s see how that goes |
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As someone who did two tours of NI in 74 and 75 I'm hardly impartial.
The paras are one of Britain's elite troops as witnessed by their history. They quite rightly have a fearful reputation. I'm not sure (on Bloody Sunday) whether they showed ill-discipline or great discipline; ill-discipline by firing indiscriminately or great discipline by obeying orders. My guess and it is a guess is that they obeyed orders - whatever those orders were we will probably never know. Orders would have been given at several levels of command. I do think they (not necessarily the squaddies) were wrong but can understand why it happened. The IRA, or at least the violent contingent, were always wrong in their tactics/strategy. Wiki: More than 3,500 people were killed in the conflict, of whom 52% were civilians, 32% were members of the British security forces, and 16% were members of paramilitary groups |
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@ Charlie, it is unfair of me to label it as the whole British army,i've no doubt the vast majority were/are decent people, however an injustice has been done, people were murdered and it was covered up by barefaced lying.
@ Lfc the IRA wasn't the only terrorist organisation, the UVF etc have committed atrocities and their figures are quite staggering, condone all terrorism or none at all. |
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pa lapsy
Not necessarily disagreeing but who did the lying? |
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IRA and Loyalist terrorist murders should both be condemned that I am afraid is neither here nor there
You see when Irish people elect into government the IRA murderers , those responsible for these very atrocities that killed men women and children I think they should pipe down , and you should pipe down about condemning anyone |
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If i had to point the finger it would be originally at the soldiers who said the people they shot were "armed",
they weren't. |
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pa
I'll reply quickly now as watching footy. But I imagine chain of command went something like: Government - we need to sort this IRA situation out, Field-Marshall - I'll sort it out, General - a job for the paras, etc. |
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I could believe that though i'd leave IRA out and put in general disorder,enjoy the match.
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Yes yes , the British army went there to arrest members of the IRA
And instead over 3 days decided to shoot innocent people That I am sorry makes no sense whatsoever , of course mistakes were made but they were going a deadly and job Now as I say , they have no grounds to expect British soldiers in the dock when they on that estate were members of the IRA , helpers of the IRA , and ultimately were responsible for those terrible events And then of course these same people would vote into parliament those responsible for the terror and bombing and the innocent lives lost as their repesentatives in government Well I’m sorry , they will have to be quiet and look at their conscience before anything else |
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Interestingly to add to the general confusion of what might have happened over those 3 days the loyalist UVF have admitted to being responsible for some of the shootings using a rifle modified to fire the same type of bullets as the British army
The UVF claimed the weapon was purchased from a Belfast gunsmith and recovered by police a decade later UVF members gave the name of the sniper who opened fire from the nearby loyalist springmartin estate |
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The following year , 13/14 May 1972 was what was called the battle at springmartin
It involved the British Army , IRA and UVF During the day and night and following day IRA units fought gun battles with both the UVF and British army Seven people were killed : 5 civilians ( 4 catholic 1 Protestant ) a British soldier and an IRA youth |