Chit Chat
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16 Jul 15
22:35
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Date Joined:
20 Dec 10
A 16 year old apprentice, who is obviously fresh out of school and knows fack all, was killed when he got caught in a lathe at work.
His company was fined £150,000, so his boss was obviously guilty of a serious lack of Health and Safety application, and admitted corporate manslaughter.
He was sent to prison.
(Easy enough to google, but don't put the correct answer on here)
How long would you have given him?
His company was fined £150,000, so his boss was obviously guilty of a serious lack of Health and Safety application, and admitted corporate manslaughter.
He was sent to prison.
(Easy enough to google, but don't put the correct answer on here)
How long would you have given him?
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Replies: 46
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If the company has shown a total disregard for H&S regulations I'd say 8 years.
He'd have been executed in China. |
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5 years sad tale
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2 chit chat judges have posted so far
5 years 8 years Who's up next? |
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Similar thing happened in a factory when I lived near Cambridge, young kid got dragged into an industrial shredder.
8 years is far too fierce, I would guess at 3 years custodial out in 9 months on licence. |
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3 chit chat Judges have voted
3 years 5 years 8 years Who's next? |
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18 months
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What's a normal sentence for manslaughter and does corporate manslaughter carry a lighter tariff?
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Sorry I misread this as a prediction on what the judge actually gave.
If I were in charge of sentencing I would have given 4 years at least. |
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4 chit chat Judges have voted
3 years 4 years 5 years 8 years Who's next? |
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suspended sentence and lumpy fine but if the kid was ethnic 10 years
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5 chit chat Judges have voted
suspended sentence and a fine (which has already been dealt with in the OP) 3 years 4 years 5 years 8 years Who's next? |
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MISREAD OP SO 1 YEAR.
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Tricky without knowing full facts so 1 to 5 years,
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Almost impossible to call without the full facts. If pressed for an answer I'd say a suspended sentence and a large fine.
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It might have been some sort of horrible freak accident, we just don't know from the scant details given.
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5 chit chat Judges have voted
1 year 3 years 4 years 5 years 8 years PM if it was a freak accident, I don't think the company would have been fined as much as £150,000 |
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I've just read about the incident. You left out some very relevant points in your original post, SAGC, and my answer would have differed greatly had I known the true facts of the case.
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suspended sentence
the fine about right |
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6 chit chat Judges have voted Suspended sentence 1 year 3 years 4 years 5 years 8 years |
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In the interests of fairness, SAGC, surely you should at least give everyone the full facts before they pass sentence? There are two or three points you have omitted that have a dramatic bearing on culpability.
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PM
I did this with a case the other day to try and understand why a killer was convicted of manslaughter. She went armed with a knife, a hammer and a wrench, and stabbed him 8 times. The chit chat jury came out 10 for murder 2 for manslaughter. The jury in the court, which comprised of 10 women and 2 men, came up with 10 manslaughter and 2 murder. She was 45 year younger than the victim who was 77. Part of the case was that the victim was a convicted paedophile living under an alias, awaiting yet another trial, which I never stated at the start. But Money Tree did, he googled it, even though I asked people not to post any further details, and he may or may not have affected the chit chat result. |
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The idea was to get the chit chat vote, then see if anybody wanted to change it when I posted more details.
But Money Tree facked up the thread by disclosing it early. |
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6 chit chat Judges have voted Suspended sentence 1 year 3 years 4 years 5 years 8 years The fact is, he was sentenced to just 8 months in prison. How does justice work? Compare that with the prize diquehead who was jailed for 'TRYING to organise' an illegal dog fight. One man, a company owner, so probably not a thicko, got one of his apprentices killed because of his company blatantly ignoring safety issues. And gets just 8 months in prison. The other is a moronic half wit who probably COULDN'T organise a piss up in a brewery. In fact he didn't organise anything, he failed. There were no dogs, so there was no illegal dog fight. Nos dogs were harmed, nobody was injured and nobody died, He got 5 and a half months. |
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But there was no safety regime at the firm, the youngsters were left untrained and unsupervised and safety guards had been taken off all the machinery, the court heard.
I stand by my 8 years after reading that. This guy had a complete disregard for the law and for the safety of his employees. All that was in his head was profit. |
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What is the skin colour of those involved? Were they qualified to recognise dangerous working practises and conditions?
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I haven't read the preamble but I'll say 45 years. Just a guess. I'll read the thread now and see if I'm right. I hope it's not bilking or some other minor infraction.
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I was wrong. Probably 5 years. Was it a halal wood factory?
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I would have said 18 months after reading the intial post as the £150,000 fine probably negated a larger sentence.
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hard to say. I think the other workers who were there might be best to judge. they knew both parties.
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naydam
17 Jul 15 17:48 What is the skin colour of those involved? Were they qualified to recognise dangerous working practises and conditions? Another idiotic pair of questions. |
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It seems that this company had quite a few 'apprentices' working for them.
And going by reports, they were left to get on with it, with no proper supervision. An 'apprentice' engineer is supposed to work with a qualified engineer, not be left alone. Having said that, anybody who puts their head near a spinning chuck on a lathe, even when it's not holding anything, is totally stupid. Contrary to popular belief, youth is not a guarantee of the presence of stupidity. So you don't normally get 'totally stupid apprentices.' He was allegedly trying to learn a trade. I'd say he was an unqualified lathe turner on poor wages, but called an 'apprentice.' When I was in my teens I would never have put my head near a spinning chuck, and I fail to see a logical reason why this lad did. I think that in the absence of supervision, there may have been teenage horseplay here, and it went wrong, but nobody is grassing. |
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I still say 8 years.
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10 years.
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8 months clearly not enough for chit chatters.
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Well of course it shouldn't be enough. I hate all the endless health and safety regulations that squeeze the life out of small businesses. But it is very important that we expect certain minimum standards to be met. In this case, the firm clearly couldn't give a monkey about its staff - actually removing the safeguard feature and telling the untrained employees they had to stick their arm directly into the machine while it was working???
 - and the firm's bosses should be punished very severely indeed. Really should be 8 years minimum. |
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How do you get killed by a lathe?
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Ok, i googled this one. Now i see how. (not the kid, but makes the point).
 http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?3124-Machinist-gets-Sucked-through-lathe-Don-t-click-if-you-don-t-want-to-see |
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I'm not sure it's really something you want to think about too hard PaE..
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When I was a kid, we went on a school trip round a huge industrial farm. The farm itself was pretty boring, but I do still remember the huge board that they had that 'commemorated' all of the child workers who had been killed in horrible accidents on that very farm in centuries gone by. It explained (in significant detail) the circumstances of each death, and I must confess to being rather fascinated by each and every entry. I kept inventing excuses so that I could skip away from the rest of my class and go back to read a bit more. Lurid stuff...
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