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Fake or Fortune - BBC1
Fake or Fortune - BBC1
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Replies: 273
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Not in uk,no iplayer
Google: fake or fortune freud Press videos button at the top -- there are already half a dozen or so uploads to youtube. |
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 cheers Ram |
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It's on!
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[i]Makybe_Diva
He's seems a lovely gentle man. If the world was full of Bendors there would be no wars.[/i] Cannot stop laughing at that Diva.  |
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comedy gold
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no wars, Just handbags at dawn, |
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Bendor wrote a book called Crap MPs. One was once my MP.
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The Mystery of Van Gogh's Ear, coming soon to BBC2.
Another superb F or F episode tonight, next week Rodin. |
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That was excellent! Only just finished watching it.
I thought Bendor looked quite fanciable tonight in his white shirt Will look out for the Van Gogh programme, FM. |
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A good episode on Delaroche -- I kept changing my mind through the programme.
Philip Mould still has not mastered the art of walking down a corridor towards the camera. Nice to see both Philip and Fiona speak fluent French. Interesting anecdote about the National Gallery having to keep repolishing the floor in front of Delaroche's The Execution of Lady Jane Grey. |
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Lots of fakes in Museums.
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Lots of fakes in Museums.
It was Bendor who proved the National Gallery of Scotland's prized portrait of Bonnie Prince Charlie was actually of his brother. Though to be fair, it was also Bendor who later found them a true portrait of BPC. https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/feb/21/bonnie-prince-charlie-portrait-found-bendor-grosvenor A genuine and acceptably bonny portrait of Bonnie Prince Charlie has been rediscovered, by the remorseful art historian who broke hearts in the Scottish souvenir industry by debunking the best-known portrait of the national hero, immortalised on countless tins of shortbread. |
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these paintings have usualy already been classed as fakes or not right by the auction houses,then given the all clear by experts on the particulat artists,with the money involved why dont the auction houses just use the so called same sed experts, or do they and is the rest just filler for the show
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1st time poster, in recent years several major auction houses have been sued for very large amounts by buyers who later discovered that what they purchased was probably fake. In consequence, the auction houses have become exceedingly cautious, despite terms and conditions which, usually, protect them from any financial loss that may result from their own 'expert' opinion!
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Also some of the paintings worth say £50-£75k eg the Delaroche (original estimate £50k but upped a bit as belonged to the queen of France)
The cost of the show authenticating it wouldn't leave that much left over. 3 experts investigating, flights to and from various locations in France, accommodation, scientists and the experiments, other experts etc etc. Who would risk their own cash (inc auction houses) when there wont be that much left over if genuine. And if its a fake/copy then you have done your brains in. Only way to really do it is get the BBC to pay the costs. |
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Then if you do sell it you have the auction rooms costs/commission on top too.
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these paintings have usualy already been classed as fakes or not right by the auction houses,then given the all clear by experts on the particulat artists,with the money involved why dont the auction houses just use the so called same sed experts, or do they and is the rest just filler for the show
imo ... Mostly the paintings are not believed to be fakes or forgeries, so much as works by minor artists and so not worth much. But whether fake or by an unknown hand, it is not worth anyone paying for the expensive historical and forensic (scientific) research, which is what the experts need to look at. The thing is that there are really only one or two people who do this -- who have made their reputations (and money) by identifying "misattributed" or "sleeper" paintings; who have invested their own time and money scouring auction catalogues (and ebay) for pictures that look as if they might be better than is claimed, buying them and then doing all the research needed to re-attribute them to a more famous artist (or sometimes identify the subject of a portrait, say -- we saw in the last programme the estimate jumped from £50k to £75k when the link to the French queen was made). (Actually there are probably more now that others can see how it is done, and online catalogues make searches easier.) Those two people are Philip Mould and Bendor Grosvenor. This programme really does have the world's two leading authorities. They have said btw they reckon the biggest repository of sleepers is likely to be small municipal collections in local galleries, town halls and the like. |
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the estimate jumped from £50k to £75k when the link to the French queen was made
Didn't the estimate jump by £25K because it was revealed that the 'over-painting' had probably been administered by the artist himself? (So even the 'faked' parts were actually his.) I expected the precise royal connection to add considerably to the value, but they didn't seem to adjust the value at all on the basis of that.. Bendor Grosvenor's a God though.. Aviva Burnstock at the Courtauld as well. Her scientific analysis of the paintings is so enlightening. |
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Reckon it will get £90k , it is a small enough painting,what great pick from the dead husband
Splendid for wife and kids |
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@HonkyJoe -- you might be right. The old memory has seen better days.
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@HonkyJoe is right. On rewatching, the rise to £75k is after the authenticating expert has shown that Delaroche himself did (at least some of) the restoration. Earlier, on the royal link, PM said only that it "raises the stakes".
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Auguste Rodin tonight
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On now!
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Looking fake, I was thinking if this week's is genuine that'd be three programmes on the trot, surely the BBC have got to mix it up a bit. Hope it is genuine that said, maybe they can pull something out of the bag in the last 15 mins.
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That was brilliant tonight. I won't give it away for those who may have recorded it.
Only myself and FlowerMyth watched this then? |
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I watched the end to see the old dear's disappointed face, then pretend it wasn't about the money..
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Watched it, too - Makybe_Diva
The Layers wouldn't have been offering any odds against - given the wealth of negative evidence |
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Yes, I was expecting it to be fake tonight. Thought it was one of the most interesting episodes we've seen.
Some really nice camerawork in these programmes. |
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if they had got the last expert on first would have 50 minutes which I"ll never get back
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Was good viewing Diva. The evidence suggesting it was a fake was pretty compelling even before the final expert gave their view.
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I got the feeling during the programme that Fiona Bruce was rather enjoying the prospect of it being a fake
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I actually started to change my mind when I saw the real Cambodian dancer contorting her arms and hands. If it was a fake it was better than all the other fakes we saw and Bendor wasn't convinced it was fake either.
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TMM the involvement of the 2 people between the artist and the owner of the piece was pretty compelling.
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I loved the real Cambodian dancer and her bendy fingers.
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me too
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I suspected that with the name of Grosvenor - Bendor Grosvenor - would be related to the Duke of Westminster.
Bendor Grosvenor is a fourth-cousin of the Duke, who, of course owns half of Mayfair and Belgravia. |
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Some great shots of London, rivalling those used on The Apprentice in the London porn stakes.
I loved the banter at the start. Fiona: When I was a student in Paris, I used to go to the Musee Rodin a lot, because I loved being around his sculptures, and particularly The Kiss, and I'd sort of hang around in front of it trying to think, you know, French intellectual thoughts. Philip: Did you ever get round to doing any real work at university? Fiona: No, not a lot. |
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@FlowerMyth has a point (and Bendor). If it was a fake by Durig, then it was better than his other fakes they showed. Of course, as they admitted, there was no provenance and the handwriting expert had condemned the signature. But it did seem to capture the Cambodian dancing.
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