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22 Aug 14
12:42
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Date Joined:
20 Aug 02
Just watched this - showing fairly regularly on Sky Sports this week.
Really absorbing hour - like the Chris Eubank one - talks candidly about Eubank, the McClellan fight, etc. Rough around the edges but a very captivating guy. Not everyone's cup of tea but I like him - very honest even if he knows people won't like what he says, and an incredible boxer.
Really absorbing hour - like the Chris Eubank one - talks candidly about Eubank, the McClellan fight, etc. Rough around the edges but a very captivating guy. Not everyone's cup of tea but I like him - very honest even if he knows people won't like what he says, and an incredible boxer.
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I loved him Roger. Where he maybe fell 1-2% short of the really top guys in terms of class, he made up for that in sheer aggression and a genuine love of fighting. Anybody who steps through the ropes has my respect, because of the courage that undoubtedly takes, but some elevate themselves above that with their absolute refusal to accept defeat.
There is a moment in R1 of the Benn/McClellan fight where McClellan batters Benn through the ropes and out of the ring, landing at least three massive shots on Benns head as he is unable to protect himself. 99% of boxers would've stayed put, as clearly a terrible beating was waiting inside. When Benn jumps up and clambers back in there is a moment where he takes a breath and you can almost see the resolution writ on his face, as if he says to himself, "OK, it's gonna be that type of night". The tragic consequences of the fight should take nothing away from what Benn achieved that night, it was almost super-human. Fighting the way that he did, it's miraculous that he has got out of the game intact. |
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The heart was unbelievable. They asked him if the McClellan fight was his best performance ever and he said that with the consequences of the fight he wouldn't ever be able to say that - kind of how I feel. Had McClellan walked away afterwards it would have been shown again and again and always be mentioned as one of the great fights.
Remember him being shoved back through the ropes in round 1 by those at ringside and assuming it was over. Don't think anyone else could have turned it around. Loved the fights with Eubank too and the genuine hatred they had for each other - none of the mock 'hold me back, hold me back' at the press conferences now to sell tickets and PPV sales and then the two guys hug like brothers at the end. They really disliked each other. Don't think there has ever been a better era for watching boxing. The top guys always looked for each other rather than dodging each other, they seemed to fight more often and it was all on terrestrial tv so everyone could enjoy it. Also very clear from the Benn and Eubank specials the warmth and love they both feel for Michael Watson. |
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Yeah, Eubank saying that he didn't hate Benn and that it was all just business, when he clearly did, just wound Benn up more. I agree a golden era in the UK, Hamed was fighting around then too and he was never less than entertaining.
The shame of Watson, aside the obvious, is that he would probably have wound up being the best of the three, reminded me of Tommy Hearns. His terrible injuries also potentially robbed us of the best of Eubank, as I felt that Eubank became content to try and outclass his opponents thereafter and didn't really look like he wanted to hurt anyone. |
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Yeah, Eubank lost his killer instinct (sorry, inappropriate wording) after the Watson fight. Ended up going the distance with, and losing to, guys not fit to lace his boots. Remember him losing to Collins who he would never have lost to pre-Watson. He had Collins down and hurt and just didn't have the drive to finish him.
Both Benn and Eubank, for all their bravado and unwavering self belief, both said without hesitation that Watson was better than them. |
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The Benn/McClellan fight was the most brutal I've ever seen. How Benn got up in that first round I'll never know. Maybe it was karma what happened to McClellan.
I would also add that Benn conveniently collapsed after the fight and avoided being drug tested. He was a fantastic fighter to watch though. Loved it when he went to America and destroyed Doug DeWitt and Iran Barkley. |
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Jimmy Tibbs did an interview with Colin Murray on TalkSport on Tuesday and he described from his perspective what it was like at the end of the Eubank v Watson fight.
He said he almost had a go at the referee for stopping Watson as he thought he was still okay - until he collapsed in his arms. It took 7 minutes before the doctor got into the ring and then the ambulance went to the wrong hospital before arriving at Barts. Just how much did all that lost time cost Michael Watson, one wonders? Tibbs now trains Billy Joe Saunders and there's a strong possibility that he'll meet Eubank Jr some time in the near future. As Murray said, that will be a very strange night for both Tibbs and Chris when they face each other in opposite corners again. You can hear the Tibbs interview here, if anyone's interested. It lasts for about 27 minutes and the Watson piece starts at 19.50: http://talksport.com/colin-murray-and-friends-tuesday-august-19-140819108715 Agree with what's already been said about that eara being a fantastic time for boxing - and all on terrestrial tv. |
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*era
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Geesyerdosh Joined: 28 Jul 06
Replies: 8128 22 Aug 14 13:41 The Benn/McClellan fight was the most brutal I've ever seen. How Benn got up in that first round I'll never know. Maybe it was karma what happened to McClellan. Wtf? |
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McClellan was a sick so and so. Nasty piece of work.
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You're a sick so and so.
Geesyerdosh Joined: 28 Jul 06 Replies: 8128 22 Aug 14 13:41 The Benn/McClellan fight was the most brutal I've ever seen. How Benn got up in that first round I'll never know. Watch the fight again and tell me which KO punch Benn did miraculously well to recover from. |
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Why am I a sick so and so?
Anyone who for kicks tapes a labradors mouth up then sets his pitbull on it and times with a stopwatch how quickly it can kill the dog is a siick baastard imo. |
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Really?? ^^
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* By really I mean did he actually do that?
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According to an article in the Observer, McClellan participated in dog fights.[10][11] McClellan's trainer & family admitted that McClellan was involved with fighting pitbulls, and on one occasion had used tape to bind the jaws of a Labrador shut before allowing his pet pitbull "Deuce" to kill it.
What goes around.... Scumbag. |
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It wasn't the only time he done it, he believed his dogs needed to kill easy meat regularly before facing proper fights. He had loads of pitbulls for fighting. Once he had one that lost a fight and was bleeding, he pulls out his gun and says I don't need no dog that can't fight and put a bullet in it.
Like I said, nasty piece of work. |
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Mikael D'Haguenet 22 Aug 14 15:25
Watch the fight again and tell me which KO punch Benn did miraculously well to recover from. Erm...the barrage that put Benn through the ropes and onto those sitting at ringside. And yes it was widely known that McClellan was a very nasty piece of work. Whether you choose to take the view that he deserves what came to him is another matter, but those who do think it do so with some valid reasoning. |
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Anyways, back to boxing. Different era's I know, but how would the likes of Benn, Eubank and Watson coped with the likes of La Motta in the forties. You can only punch for so long before the 'Bull' reacts....
Having said that it's all about opinions and I'm 99% certain that Sugar Ray Robinson would have hammered the above three given his class. And he wouldn't have needed a year's break in between. Two months maximum and he would have made short work of all three. As stated it's all about opinions, but there has never been a better middleweight than Robinson. The records don't tell lies... |
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Well yes, Robinson is widely accepted to be the greatest middleweight of all time, which I don't think anyone would claim for the three UK fighters. Whether he would have hammered them I don't know. We do know that Benn had incredible heart and Eubanks resilience is often under-rated, I doubt any fighter would have made 'short work' of either man. But yes, he would probably have beaten them, on a going day.
I would most like to have seen them dropped into the great 80's era. Can you imagine Benn V Hagler? That would be a dream match up As would Eubank V Leonard (although one could expect a lot of posturing in that one!). If we are talking era's I would also like to have seem how Calzaghe would've got on had he been born 10 years earlier. I suspect he would've struggled, but the thing about Calzaghe is that he was like Sea The Stars, he only ever did enough, he was certainly never 'bottomed'. Maybe he would've been the best of them? |
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Robinson fought 114 times before his first defeat (against La Motta) Not every fight but in those days you had to go FIFTEEN rounds, not the mickey mouse twelve we have today.
Robinson was Ali's idol and inspiration, hence he called him the greatest pound for pound fighter ever to grace this planet. Robinson liked the high life, and although he lost his 'crown' five times he always came back and retained it. As one commentator put it.... 'He's the only boxer that I've seen who could through a knockout punch...going backwards'. |
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* I forgot to add that Robinson faced La Motta Five times. (winning four) The reason? Every other boxer was scared to go near them.
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Actually he lost for the first time in his 41st fight against La Motta. He fought ten round matches until becoming champ in his 75th fight (he didn't get a shot until then as he wasn't 'owned' by the right people - although he had beaten world champions in non-title fights), as that was the distance of non-title fights. In fact only 20 of his 200 fights were scheduled for 15 rounds.
His record was remarkable though, he didn't lose again for 90 fights after LaMotta, a run that saw him win both Welterweight and Middleweight titles, when he was beaten famously by Randolph Turpin (he won the rematch). In fact only when going up again in weight to Light-Heavy, was he really vulnerable. He shouldn't really have fought after 1960, 13 of his 19 losses coming in those five years, but as many fighters of the time came to realise, the money doesn't last forever. |
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He actually fought LaMotta six times, but that wasn't unusual for the era, they kept busy and there are only so many quality guys around to fight. He also fought Gene Fullmer 4 times and Basillio and Olsen 3 each, he fought many fighters more than once. Great though he was, I don't think 'fear' had that much to with it, he managed to find 194 other opponents to get in the ring with
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(he won the rematch).
Yes, he was shrewd enough to have a rematch within sixty days written in the contract if he got beat. Turpin beat him fair and square, although it was rumoured that Robinson had too many late Parisian nights. The 114 I quoted may have included his amateur fights. |
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Basillio
I have his championship fight on DVD against Basillio. Utterly brutal. |
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I should add that I am not using google for any of my posts.
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Oh yeah, he liked to get his revenge asap. He famously avenged his only defeat by La Motta just three weeks later. What is less well known is that he managed to squeeze a tough 10 rounder in between those two fights, winning a 10R split decision in the Garden over Jackie Wilson (not the singer!) the week before the rematch!
I don't know how they did it, not just physically, but in terms of promotion - these were big fights. |
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You lie, I've googled 'Has stewarty b got Robinson V Basillio on DVD', it said "Yes, it was brutal".
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They were different class to what you watch nowadays DO.
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Roger The Butler Joined: 20 Aug 02
Replies: 2261 22 Aug 14 16:23 Erm...the barrage that put Benn through the ropes and onto those sitting at ringside. And yes it was widely known that McClellan was a very nasty piece of work. Whether you choose to take the view that he deserves what came to him is another matter, but those who do think it do so with some valid reasoning. You mean the flurry of punches that hit him on top of the head? As for the 'valid reasoning', it reminds me of Glenn Hoddle's views on disability. I'm fairly confident you don't agree with Hoddle, so why would you think differently in McClellan's case? Presumably we're all hoping Michael Vick gets paralysed soon... |
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Actually DO, I tell a small porkie. I have it on a video.
 I need to get it transferred sometime. |
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Mik, it's pretty much accepted that McClellan was a vile and cruel man, like Tyson he spoke of wanting to 'kill' opponents. Whether he deserved what he got, I don't agree, but I'm certainly not going to argue with anybody who takes that view. And I doubt that had he inflicted the same injuries on Benn that he would've been as affected by the experience.
BTW, I'm with Roger, the three hard shots to Benn's unprotected head as he sat on the bottom rope already 'gone', would've finished the vast majority of fighters. I'm surprised you can't see that. |
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Add in the fact that Benn was known as chinny and McClellan was regarded as one of the hardest punchers in the world.
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Randy Turpin
 http://www.boxingnews24.com/2011/08/famous-ring-wars-sugar-ray-robinson-vs-randy-turpin-1/ |
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Their was a Reputation series on BBC2 about ten years ago. One was called 'Sugar Ray Robinson an America Legend'.
If it's ever repeated I would advise any boxing to watch it. Literally jaw dropping. (pardon the pun) Again it's pranged on a video here. |
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*fan
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Desmond Orchard Joined: 28 Jun 04
Replies: 2286 22 Aug 14 17:40 Mik, it's pretty much accepted that McClellan was a vile and cruel man, like Tyson he spoke of wanting to 'kill' opponents. Whether he deserved what he got, I don't agree, but I'm certainly not going to argue with anybody who takes that view. And I doubt that had he inflicted the same injuries on Benn that he would've been as affected by the experience. BTW, I'm with Roger, the three hard shots to Benn's unprotected head as he sat on the bottom rope already 'gone', would've finished the vast majority of fighters. I'm surprised you can't see that. Yet Geesyerdosh correctly describes Benn as being 'chinny'. I guess the fact that McClellan didn't hit him on the chin helped. Anyone who thinks McClellan got what he deserved is as vile as him imo. |
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Actually, to argue the semantics, McClellan did pretty much 'win' the fight at that point as the Ref made a right pigs ear of the count. He also inexplicably kept pushing McClellan away as he looked to deliver the coup de gras, but strange things happen in the ring and Benn surviving that round resulted in an epic.
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I agree. It was a great fight. McClellan may be vile but he showed tremendous courage fighting on for 5 or 6 rounds after the glancing head that left him how he is now.
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What is your problem Mik? If you don't rate Benn then fair enough, say it. Actually Benn being 'chinny' (not entirely my view but he did hit the deck more often than your multiple world champion, more to with his all action style I would suggest) has nothing to do with his heart, if anything it accentuates his determination to not be beaten.
My view is that to be ambivalent to a person/animals well-being based upon a commonly held view of that person/animal is one thing. To actively wish and participate in causing harm to another person/animal in the pursuit of personal gratification, is altogether a different thing. However, your opinion of McClellan and his detractors respective levels of vileness is your right. |