have a word, wipe yourself down and come back tomorrow

Yes I feel like throwing myself  overboard at times the stuff I read on here dusty

I will go and have my bath

not everybody though, some people can think, just not very many

EbulGery sometimes you have to gird your loins. It seems to me you are so set to be anti Blair that you won't take each case on its merit.
I'm all for the rights of individuals and for all to have a fair crack of the whip, but there's a difference between that and being Lilly livered.

Where is the Isis court of appeal? There isn't one is there ffs?
These people don't care about justice they care about their distorted view of religion.
If they want ****, we are the ones that will give em it, if not for the other religious entities at least for secularism.

an apologist,how unoriginal.

dustybin  • August 10, 2014 2:57 PM BST
for all your good intentions ebul you'd end up getting your own throat cut due to gullibility.

that is an interesting post, rather like that poster who fell into a state of panic after seeing an Isis flag
in E.London yesterday

amazingly I do not believe Isis will cut my throat while I am in bed tonight

That is because I have retained some grip on reality

Democracy is not when a country. decides its own government. It is essentially a set of ideas and
exists irrespective of a countries borders. It can be jmposed eg it was imposed on Japan and Germany
after WW2

yes alias

democracy definition

a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting

control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.

there are a few others...but none have anything to do with a countries values
other than perhaps the peoples right to chose

lfc1971  • August 10, 2014 3:04 PM BST 
What ebul dosn't understand is that in these countries the average person dosn't want a Sunii islamic state.
They are at the mercy of barbaric and bloodthirsty people who see a chance for power.It is always the same
when yhe uneducated masses get control. Make no mistake this can happen anywhere in the world.

somewhat elitist...and a big problem with that is our leaders are not very well educated themselves are they?
or have any great intelligence, we are not governed by anyone I would describe as an elite

but my point
I think what you will find most of these people want to live in a society of peace, law and order
so they can live their daily lives....without being in constant fear of their lives, women have a choice of colours

Now Saddam Hussein gave them that, albeit at some cost in what we would call human rights
Also if you remember Saddam was neither a religious nut(although he was Sunni biased) or a misogynist

He ruled by the Cult Of Personality...himself

Also what you fail to see, these people are best ruled by an Alpha ruler, the strongest, although
they may disagree which one
Our voting system  is useless to them, there is no control, law or order....so we commit a crime when we force it on them

I would say almost certainly most Iraqis would much prefer Saddam to Isis

The reason Isis is there is because of the democracy we forced on them

Also what you fail to see, these people are best ruled by an Alpha ruler, the strongest

ebul, for me that is what our western leaders fail to understand. Put simply, in most of the middle east, for centuries it has been the hardest guy who owned the biggest stick who ruled, and the people who he ruled accepted that. Saddam is a prime example. It may be alien to us, and so is the behaviour of ISIS, but that was what Europe was like in the middle ages.

I noticed earlier that somebody (EbulGery I think) said that it is always the big aggressor who attacks the smaller one. Difficult to apply those facts when noting the Japanese attack on the USA, or Britain's attack on Germany in WW2. Or even Germany declaring war against the USA.
It is definitely not always the big boy's fault.

Also, somebody said that Isis (and perhaps the rest of the Middle East) aren't a threat to us. They certainly are! Our country would collapse without supplies of oil. We cannot cede control of those facilities to any Tom, D1ck or Isis who fancies holding us to ransom.

Well I agree with your last paragraph Naydam, but I do not see why we have to impose war to do this.
Much simpler to just pay for it surely?

Unfortunately it seems they do Ricki

Your first paragraph Naydam

big aggressor...is not necessarily a countries size...but a countries military capabilities

Japan did think they could beat America, slight misjudgement I know,
they did not start the war to lose

Our declaration of war on Germany with France, was a necessity, we feared Germanys growing power and intentions,
with good cause
In fact Britain and France should have been a match for Germany. It was only when war started, we discovered we were not.

I do not really believe that any middle Eastern country thinks it can take down the US, well not if it is sane.

You and your anti israeli friends are part of the problem.  Attitudes like yours from guardianista land shows weakness and only encourages terrorist islamists.

but then perhaps you are gullible enough to believe the usa are continually bombing every country they dont like to 'help' the ordinary people in the street!!

well, perhaps it's actually too late considering I believe the powers that eb actually want war in order to serve their own purposes, i e they will do everything possible to get the various factions fighting one another, its been done throughout history. It's hardly likely to change now. Read up on albert pike etc. What I worry about most of all though is our willingness to believe everything we're told about whats going on around us.
Everyone lies, continually, its the way of the world. What Im basically saying, epicurean is, I dont think there's a solution!

On that basis we'd never do anything again.
Everything based on its own merit. Yes contrived western societies made a rod for their own back, does that mean there will never be a position that the west have to take in the future then as a result?

I suspect you are suggesting that what's happening in Iraq is fabrication and that whoever were responsible for Isis gaining a foothold shouldn't worry because it's all been photoshopped?

moisok  • August 11, 2014 11:08 AM BST 
You and your anti israeli friends are part of the problem.  Attitudes like yours from guardianista land shows weakness and only encourages terrorist islamists.

I am inclined to disagree I think it us killing Muslims which encourages terrorism

Also why has parliament not been recalled to see what and if we can do anything
We are giving humanitarian aid......but we could offer more protection to the Yazidi Christians ad Kurds
yet we are reluctant

This is the same Cameron who wanted us to attack Assad in Syria

His policy seem to be attack and kill Muslims but we can't intervene to protect anyone
what sort of policy is that?

On a humanitarian level I cannot agree with this policy

the muslim fighters are flexing their muscles everywhere or had you not noticed ebul

don't obfuscate by wandering off into the politics of who to blame!!

they are killing so many it makes gaza look like a tea party

your obsessing and apparent siding with the critics and opponents of Israel only emboldens these muslims

if muslims think this is the response of the west then no wonder they feel further empowered