I can only repeat what I have said...this is not a racial thing at all

it is the strong exploiting the weak(we had a technology advantage at the time)

the real question we should be asking , is does being strong justify us exploiting the weak

just my own opinion of course

several million slaves in africa apparently

All this buddy-buddy agreement is not good for the forum. We need a bit more discord. I feel another rant erupting!

When I see these pathetic adverts to (supposedly) help the African children by giving somebody some money, major questions arise in my mind.
Why do they continue to have more children when they have already lost several to starvation? Maybe they could feed and nurture one healthy child. Don't they bother to think that eight babies will require more food?

Why do they show film of a young child struggling to carry water "four miles every day"? Why doesn't she use a trolley? She could transport more water more easily. This would free up time for her to dig an irrigation ditch so that,eventually, she wouldn't need to walk for water at all. Maybe even move a bit nearer to water?

Why does the little boy "have to drink contaminated water that could kill him. But he has no choice"? Why doesn't he filter it and boil it? Better still, why doesn't he fence it off and stop the bloody animals **** in the water supply? Create an area for the animals to drink and piss and take the water to them.

Why do they need people from thousands of miles away to dig a well for them? Why don't the men dig their own wells? Come to think of it...where ARE all the bloody fathers of these multifarious struggling off-spring and their child-burdened mothers? All laying about getting high and drunk, no doubt!

Just my opinion, of course.

ebulGery - what planet are you actually on?  you must be over 18 to be on here - everything these days resolves around money - I suggest you wise up and seriously get a grip.  Otherwise you are doomed.  Believe me!

Why doesn't she use a trolley

they do that where I live, they are lying about everywhere Naydam

Unfortunately in these countries there is no old age pension, people have lots of children, to support

them in their old age.....but this is creating unsustainable population levels.

We have improved our medical care, in the past a large number of these children would not have survived disease

to reach adulthood

We help them out of humanity, but it has not solved the problem, it does concern me

I know it is terribly paternalistic but somehow Africa seems to me, to be us, as we once where, which brings out

my colonial instincts, I feel the need to help them , but I don't know how??????????

No Naydam that wont do, sorry

that still does not justify it to me

it was not part just of the African way of life, it was part of all of our way of life at one time

we had rejected in our own society at that time, and yet we indulged in the slave trade

and it was our need for slaves in the W.Indies and America that drove this

'SAS' in  Nigeria now as I type.

Cameron has disguised it as 'help' FFS we are now intervening. Apparently US special forces are 'giving a hand'.


Where is Russia's involvement in this situation??????????????

Russia have enough on their hands with Ukraine stewart

Naydam was right when he said earlier if we let wars rage in Africa that would solve their population problem

in fact that must happen, if they don't control their own population, but this will involve everybody, so women and children

will not be spared...so it increases brutality, so we end up with where we are with the kidnap of these girls

They're busy helping in Ukraine.

Unfortunately, it's not a matter of whether or not Africa needs them. It's probably more of a matter as to whether or not the local Muslim leaders decide to disown the gang or treat them as freedom fighters.

Of course by far the biggest problem with African countries, is over population.
Then why do we have to keep feeding them?????????????????
There has been a massive population increase in Nigeria, how can such a poor country support this?
I would have seen them as children we must help
and of course there is a very dark side to Africa I am afraid ...humanity at its worst I am afraid

I still feel a need to salvage them
but we never quite got the savage out of them did we ,
I wish I had a slave to clean my house   


ebulGery, you have let yourself down big time in this thread considering you are intelligent man. The sad fact is you could find all information with one click on the net. You don't seem to have read world history pre 1500 (Before slavery and colonialism).

It seems to me you have swallowed the propaganda intending to dehumanise Africa and Africans in order to exploit them through slavery and colonialism them for the last 500 years.

Europe have benefited immensely from African resources and labour, 500 years of millions of free labour (slavery) and later colonialism. Where the continent was massively depopulated and it was difficult to find young men as most were taken to slavery. It is true that Slavery have existed in many societies including African, Asian and European but Atlantic Slave trade took it to another level.

You can appreciate that it will take more than 50 years for these African countries to deal traumatic history and its legacy. (UK is still trying to sort out Northern Ireland and legacy of history there)

A quick glance on internet will show great African Kingdoms and civilization some of them existed long before European civilization and some at the same time as European Civilization. Kingdom like Kema, Kush,Egypt,Kongo, Angola,Kanen-Bornu, Songhai, Ghana, Mali, Meroe, Zimbabwe, Zulu, Buganda etc. The point being civilization is not reserved of any race or region of the world and to dismiss the whole Continent as savage, chlidlike, exist because of your aid is to fool yourself.

I will say Africans they have proved themselves to be great survivor and resilient, Natives of others continent were not so luck. Canada, Australia, USA and South America natives most of them were completely exterminated and wiped out of the face of earth.

It will also help to note fortune of Nations, Empires and Countries goes through cycle(rise and fall), Persia, Babylon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Kush, Greece, Roman,British, China, India,Japan, Ottoman, Russia, French, Arabs were once great empires. US is currently calling the shot but it seems to me its influence in the world is waning gradual.

So you can be sure Africa, Asia, South American will rise in time even perhaps even during our lifetime. The best we can do is work with them for mutually benefits.

Got to agree with stewarty b, Britain, and European in general have show no particular genuine interest help Africa apart from guarding their own interest. Better way to help will be to support good leaders and trade in equal footing between Europe and Africa, a bit like China and Africa. Where China take raw materials from Africa in return build infrastructure.(Roads, railways, communications systems, ports, airports, housing,factories,etc.)

Nigeria GDP currently is 510bn, 26 biggest economy. In six years is projected to be in top 20 economies of the world. It is projected to be 5th largest by 2050 (36 years from now) ahead of UK (which will be 10th).

Total British aid to Nigeria economy in 5 years (2010-2015) is about 1 billion (DfiD data) less than 0.2% of this year Nigeria GDP you can appreciate this is there for symbolic value. Taking into account that part of charities and aid is spent on administration, fund raising drive, advertising, rent, paying staffs, it is tiny amount which reach intended recipient.

Population growth naturally tends to decrease with improvements of income and education. It will be the same with Nigeria as it has been for all other countries. Few well educated middle class women of whatever culture want seven children or more. What they want is to enjoy life and pursue rewarding career. Taking the size of the continent it is really not overpopulated in the first instance. Compare to India, or China, population density is much smaller. Trade, education and good governance is way to get rid of poverty not aid.

@Naydam,
i think the whole world including Muslims all around the world should condemn the actions terrorists and countries which support them, how can it right to kidnap girls in the name of any religion?

There 1.6bn muslims i think majority are peaceful but it the extremists one who needed to be rooted out. The west have not help matter going around the world removing dictator who tried to keep an eye on extremists e.g Saddam, Bashir, Gadaffi,Mubarak without proper plan of who will take their place therefore leave vacuum which have been filled with these extremists.

We have only committed to finding these girls at the moment.

I would hope we offer more long term support, after all as long as Boko Harem exist, they can do it again.

I also think there is a population problem in Africa.

I have severe doubts that this continent will ever compete well in our world capitalist system.

This system only benefits the more successful countries, not the less successful.

They were starving in the Sudan when Geldof and company got involved a quarter of  century ago.
People donated millions.
Did it cure anything?
No,it made it worse.
There are now more of them, and they are still starving.
If the Sudan was a horse, you'd shoot it.

I apologize if i have missed some your posts,

Look at the history of continent many leaders who tried to unite the continent were either assassinated of frustrated with the help of covert and overt western support. People like Steve Biko, Lumumba,  Kwame Nkrumah. There were seen as threat to western interest.

There were already some powerful kingdoms there equivalent in size with average European countries i have already given some names above. I am optimistic, i see the world in 50 or 100 years time in much more better shape and in 500 years extremists in Muslims countries will increasingly lose support, a little bit like Christianity were 600 years ago.

And there are fewer wars today than 30 years ago in Africa and larger middle class than even ten years ago. And so there is progress.

I these kinds of Boko Haram activities need to be declared crimes against humanity and punished accordingly.
Population will sort itself out with higher standard of living, better education, more rights for women people will naturally decide to have fewer children.

@call me a taxi,
Aid is never a solution, trade is the solution. For instance exchange oil for equivalent amount of infrastructure, eg Educational facilities, roads, hospitals, a bit like what Chinese are doing over there. In time these infrastructure will help much more people. Aid goes to the pocket of few people for their own personal benefit.

I think we need to give Africa time.

Nothing you say is wrong bizman....it is just not so easy for these countries to become competitive

and Nigeria population is growing at an alarming rate...I am nothing like as optimistic as you bizman

I commend China on this..

Even in their communist state, I think they helped Africa more than us



I take it that this post was tongue in cheek?

There are few great project Chinese undertook during communist time mainly due to ideological reasons as China was almost as poor as Africa. TAZARA Tanzania- Zambia Raiway, regarded as one of the greatest enginering effort of its kind since WWII, and Guinea- Mali railways http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAZARA_Railway. But at that time china was extremely poor so it difficult to be sure.

Interesting statistics from UN on how the world will look like from 1950 to 2300. It is only projections, but nevertheless interesting statistics: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/longrange2/WorldPop2300final.pdf