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These 403 comments are related to the topic:
A German documentary about 911.
A German documentary about 911.
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And if John Gross was aware of molten steel, you would expect an investigation into why it was there.
Unless of course, it was not in your interests to discover why. |
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""NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning. "
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm |
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Pokie man 80 tons of thermite is the minimum required for this sort of damage,how are you proposing 2 blokes got this into the buildings exactly without anyone noticing.
Further as I have said it doesn't even cut metal in the way you seem to think it does,sorry to crush your conspiracy with FACTS  |
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Well i didnt ask today, it is actually a bit of a strange thing to just chuck into the conversation out of the blue. I was gonna ask the engineer in my office who is generally speaking the go to man when ever any tricky engineering questions come up that cant easily be covered by traditional methods. He is very experienced and balanced and ill try and find a way of asking the question some time soon, hopefully without sounding like a conspiracy theorist nutter.
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Good evening gentlemen. Thank you for your contributions.
Erse: I believe the molten aluminium to which NIST refers is that which spilled down the sides of the twin towers pre-collapse, not that which was found in abundance amongst the rubble. And that particular explanation can hardly be used for WTC 7 anyway. GPT: I have not proposed two blokes were responsible for anything: getting into the building unnoticed, installing eighty tons of thermite included. I think you must either be trying to put words into my mouth for some reason or confusing me with another poster, sir. And, please, an apology is really not necessary in this instance. |
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blue seems to be the new green...
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Hi Rob.
It is a very contentious issue, sir, more so within the engineering world I should imagine. Good luck. I'm very interested to learn of your colleagues' opinions, I'm expecting a mixed reaction. |
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Good one DM!
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Poker you're clearly a very articulate man, may I ask a straightforward question.
What we all saw was planes hitting buildings which resulted in them collapsing,subsequently fanatical terrorists claimed to have carried the attacks out. What part of that don't you believe and why? And who do you think really carried out the attacks? |
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There is a good chance hell just say "i don,t know" because we dont deal with skyscrapers here though ive drawn at least one 20+ storey building in the past and i know hes worked in london. But if he hasnt and has only ever done maximum six storey buildings like at our present firm then he could easily just say it is out of his scope. He does read the guardian mind, so would love to have a go at dubya.
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Good evening Blackburn.
Please give ten minutes to pop to the shops and I'll be back to answer your question, sir. |
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Ok
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I apologise pokie man I got you mixed up with one of the nutters who thinks thermite could have been used,as you need 80 tons of it and it won't work anyway we can put that theory to bed sorry about the mix up.
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Hello again Blackburn. Thank you for your patience, sir.
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GPT.
No problem, sir. It is tough to keep track of everyone on here sometimes. |
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Thanks for getting back poker.
The problem I have with that is people wih direct access to the towers mut have colluded with the people flying the planes ie explosives of some kind must have been planted in conjunction with the planes being kidnapped. I'll be perfectly honest, I have zero engineering knowledge, but I find it utterly implausible that Al Quaeda and the US were working together. |
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Blackburn:
For my own part, sir, I'm no expert on Al Qaeda. But as to them working with the US, haven't they a history of doing just that? |
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I'm sure all sorts of people have done dirty deals, but the phone call from Bush to Obama (ok I'm exaggerating to make a point) proposing my scenario does seem a bit far fetched.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, it's not always easy to hold a sensible conversation on here, especially on a subject where people have entrenched views. |
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You're welcome, sir.
Did you watch the short clip of Dr John Gross I posted above? I'd be interested to hear your opinion. |
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Which of these two is easier and more likely?
1)People collude to blow up 3 buildings and perform an illusion that makes it look like a terrorist attack 2)A terrorist attack occurs and people collude to perform an illusion that makes it look like an inside job? I'm not really bothered about how and why #2 could happen, but frankly, it doesn't matter because there's no hows or whys for #1 either. Maybe the WTC7 videos are all faked and key people were fed bogus info. Sound ridiculous? Would that be more or less ridiculous than any possible explanation for detonating the towers after planes have flown into them. |
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I've just watched it now and tbh don't really have an opinion. Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable, people are recounting events when they were experiencing stress and trauma.
I'm not in a position to say whether or not the way the way the buildings collapsed was unusual, it was an unprecedented scenario so nobody is really. I just cannot believe that the US would have colluded with Al Qaeda, causing the death of thousands of its citizens. Your concern and curiosity is well founded and im not in a position to refute your suggestions, it's just a conspiracy too far for me. |
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Fair enough, sir. Thank you for taking the time to watch the clip.
Personally, the video evidence of molten metal coupled with the surfeit of witness testimony was sufficient to convince me of its presence. To this end, I find it extraordinary that the lead investigator of NIST denies any knowledge of the same. He is either rather unqualified to be in such a position, or he's willfully lying. |
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That might be harsh, it could be that the witnesses are mistaken, people under enormous stress are not always reliable.
Anyway I guess we'll never know with absolute certainty, it's been very interesting |
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Possibly, Blackburn, but Dr Gross denies knowledge of any witnesses, mistaken or otherwise.
"First of all, let’s go back to your basic premise that there was a pool of molten steel. I know of absolutely nobody, no eyewitness, who has said so." John Gross, lead structural engineer for the NIST investigation. He was a lead investigator. In such a capacity he must have known about these assertions. |
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And many of the witnesses were firemen and policemen, individuals who one might reasonably expect to function well in stressful situations.
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Evening PM
Just to go off tangent for a mo, did you see Pointless last night, money question was on snooker, " name a player that played in the 2012 world championships at Sheffield "  There were 18 yes 18 pointless answers & yes Ebdon was one of them  I will let you get back to the big debate |
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Good evening Pump. I hope you are well, sir.
Yes, I did indeed catch the programme. And had been waiting for someone to pick the snooker option for a couple weeks or so. I was amazed at how many of the correct answers were pointless. The Pokermonster household had plumped for Cao Yupeng, Liang Wenbo and Martin Gould. |
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GPT 02 Oct 12 19:02
I apologise pokie man I got you mixed up with one of the nutters who thinks thermite could have been used,as you need 80 tons of it and it won't work anyway we can put that theory to bed sorry about the mix up. Wow you seem shrewd, perhaps you can explain how you came to the conclusion 80 tons of thermite would be needed, and why it "won't work anyway" before we "put that theory to bed" |
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Pokermonster
Have you heard of a guy named Leslie Robertson. Well he was one of the original WTC structural engineers. Well he is on record during a presentation. Robertson clearly states that he saw a "river of steel flowing" at the B1 level of the WTC debris pile. |
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Funnily enough having barely watched the last championships I said Doherty & Ebdon as I did not know any of the more obscure ones, both pointless, shame our question last summer was not of the same ilk.
All the best PM |
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You were very unlucky, Pumps.
Your question was much harder, I agree. And luck of the draw with which hundred people the producers ask I suppose. |
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Good evening AG.
No, sir, I have never heard of Leslie Robertson, but he is one of many who claim to have seen the molten metal. It's just another reason to be baffled by Dr Gross' denials. |
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Apparently, after publicly asking his questioner to email him the video evidence and witness testimony of molten metal, Dr Gross privately refused to provide an email address. No way of substantiating this claim, though, of course.
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Here is a slightly longer version of the same clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks0Q6BwjTyU I suspect a body language expert would have fun interpreting his mannerisms as he fields questions about the WTC buildings. Shamefully, as a poker player, I'm no expert on such things. |
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We seem to have a situation here Pokermonster.
Either those people who were involved in the clear up and assessment at Ground Zero including WTC structural engineers and firemen are not being honest about seeing molten steel. Yet we have video footage and NASA thermal images to indicate temperatures at a level for molten state. or We have NIST representatives for what ever reason in deliberate denial to this matter. Could there be a cover up? |
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Has anyone ever considered that al-Qaeda also planted the explosives, as a follow up to the plane strikes.
Hence the government not wanting anyone to know how easily they gained access. |
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That will have been considered by many Ayedo.
Also that those skyscrapers were pre wired long before 9/11. To prevent a leaning collapse in the event of an earthquake. Obviously breaching building regulations. You could almost see it happening though. |
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Also that those skyscrapers were pre wired long before 9/11. To prevent a leaning collapse in the event of a security/terrorist threat.
Obviously breaching building regulations. You could almost see it happening though. Rate reply: |
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Gentlemen.
Have a look at this video from 4:53 until the end about a minute or so later. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yli-if4F0DY I'm not endorsing anything present in this short film, but the footage at the end is new to me and interesting. It does appear to show (in close up) a series of detonations slightly in advance of the collapsing wreckage. It is also eerily similar to the industrial quarry implosion shown alongside. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltP2t9nq9fI
Building 7 is still standing whilst the BBC are reporting it's also collapsed ???? |