On the whole for me, Religion is a pyramid system. A con.

ICABOD PEAPOD 29 Apr 22:47


And if so, do you have anything to back up the belief other than a wish to make yourself feel better about inevitable death of yourself and loved ones

Also what makes your god and his story any more likely to be the real truth than any other?



Yes since I was 16 years old. Christianity is unique. It's about God doing something for mankind all the other religions are about man doing some thing for God. Trying to keep rules so God will love us or like us. Christians believe he already loves us.


I have evidence to back up my belief for example.



Arguments for the existence of God
The cosmological argument argues that there was a "first cause", or "prime mover" who is identified as God. It starts with a claim about the world, like its containing entities or motion.
The teleological argument argues that the universe's order and complexity are best explained by reference to a creator God. It starts with a rather more complicated claim about the world, i.e. that it exhibits order and design. This argument has two versions: One based on the analogy of design and designer, the other arguing that goals can only occur in minds.
The ontological argument is based on arguments about a "being greater than which cannot be conceived". It starts simply with a concept of God.[16] Avicenna,[17][18] St. Anselm of Canterbury and Alvin Plantinga formulated this argument to show that if it is logically possible for God (a necessary being) to exist, then God exists.[16]
The argument from degree, a version of the ontological argument posited by Aquinas, states that there must exist a being which possesses all properties to the maximum possible degree.
Arguments that a non-physical quality observed in the universe is of fundamental importance and not an epiphenomenon, such as Morality (Argument from morality), Beauty (Argument from beauty), Love (Argument from love), or religious experience (Argument from religious experience), are arguments for theism as against materialism.
The anthropic argument suggests that basic facts, such as our existence, are best explained by the existence of God.
The moral argument argues that the existence of objective morality depends on the existence of God.
The transcendental argument suggests that logic, science, ethics, and other things we take seriously do not make sense in the absence of God, and that atheistic arguments must ultimately refute themselves if pressed with rigorous consistency.
The will to believe doctrine was pragmatist philosopher William James' attempt to prove God by showing that the adoption of theism as a hypothesis "works" in a believer's life. This doctrine depended heavily on James' pragmatic theory of truth where beliefs are proven by how they work when adopted rather than by proofs before they are believed (a form of the hypothetico-deductive method).
The Argument from Reason holds that if, as thoroughgoing naturalism entails, all of our thoughts are the effect of a physical cause, then we have no reason for assuming that they are also the consequent of a reasonable ground. Knowledge, however, is apprehended by reasoning from ground to consequent. Therefore, if naturalism were true, there would be no way of knowing it

Tony Broke 29 Apr 22:54


most religions are indeed lies yes. but I would accept that Jesus christ is NOT a liar

Valid.

I think there is a possibility that some sort of creator set off the start of the universe billions of years ago. Who/how/why that came about, no one has even come close to answering so I certainly wouldn't waste any time worshipping a theoretical creator (I'm sure he'd understand).

What I don't believe in is a god that specifically created Man and takes an active interest in our lives, answering our prayers etc. Why would he allow so much suffering in the world? It means he is either unwilling or unable to prevent it, which makes him a pretty lousy god imo.

The bible was written when Science was virtually non-existent, for example they were able to claim the world was only a few thousand years old, which we now know to be total nonsense (embarrassingly some hardline Christians including Sarah Palin, still believe this to be true!).

Sadly I don't see the situation changing soon and Atheists/Agnostics will continue to be in the world minority as mankind throughout the years has always shown a yearning for some sort of higher meaning, and if we don't know what it is then it seems like we'll just make something up!

Dobbo 29 Apr 22:58


Has this ever been discusses before?

On betfair forums. Yes alot lately for some reason.

do not be silly or deluded - not copyrighted

Does anyone not see the pyramid system side of it, donating a percentage of your wage so those at the top drive the best cars and stay in the best homes.

Most of the vicars I know would of got a lot more money if not in the ministry

yep but the evidence for his historical campaigns is based on less primary texts than the gospels

without a god the 1st law of Thermodynamics is broken!

The 1st Law of Thermodynamics.

If it states that you can never have an increase or decrease of energy/matter, which means that matter/energy can not be created from nothingness, how did we get all the matter and energy in the universe? If science is all there is and there is no God, then the 1st Law of Thermodynamics reigns supreme and therefore it would be impossible to have matter and energy in existence right now. Simply put, when you open your eyes and see matter and experience energy, what you see is impossible according to the known Laws of science if, in fact, there is no God. Therefore, science itself says there must be a God.


I have watched a few trying to get round this by saying our univese was created when 2 other universises rubbed together like membranes and this created the energy for our universe.. Fine so there was energy in the other Univerises then, where did that energy come from?

icabod how do you sole the problem of the 1st law of thermodynamics?

solve :)

J2BLUE's posts in this are spot on, and are very similar to my feelings and beliefs on the matter

sunset, I find your posts, with their liberal use of quotes and bold, difficult to follow. You may get more responses if your posts are more clearly formatted.

the fact you can neither explain it or have any understanding as how the laws of physics where broken while he universe was in birth tell us this universe should not exist is an idication that something has created it and it is not a random accident.

Even Eienstein when he realised the Universe had a starting point wasnt happy as it indicated there was a God or creator.

cristo, what i mean is that i believe it no coincidence that GOOD is very very similar to GOD and DEVIL is very similar to EVIL, leading me to believe that both are just caricatures for all that is good and all that is bad just like santa is for christmas and the michelin man is for michelin tyres!

There is no evidence for jesus returning to life where other so callled mesiahas did not other than biblical texts!! anyone who can name the author of the bible wins my respect as it is all hand me down nonsense through the centuries that was more and more distorted!

Modern day equivalent would be a cheesy american sit com that tries to ram a message down the viewers throat! hardly makes an omnipotent being a reality however!

maleuk, I don't follow your argument.

Further, while Einstein was undoubtedly phenomenally bright, that doesn't make him a universal arbiter of truth.

If you use google you will be able to pick up on the authors of most but now all of the 66 books in the bible , its the same with early
church history try google.

A limited search would let you see the Pauline gospels, Peter, John etc

However I think you have already decided what you believe

quite a simple arguement slarty to follow.

The laws of physics including the first law of thermodynamics say this universe cannot exist. As energy cannot be created or destroyed but can only change forms, eg energy into matter etc.

So where did the energy in this universe come from? The universe had a starting point, around 14 billion years ago.

Simply shrugging your shoulders and saying i dont know isnt a solid enough arguement against a god or creator.

J2BLUE. 29 Apr 23:17


I believe in God but wouldn't say I was a follower of any particular religion. I don't need to be a Christian or a Muslim etc to believe in God. I don't need to go to church to be preached to. I just try and be a decent person and live an honest life.

Is there a God? I don't know. I wouldn't argue with you that there was.

You have just contradicted yourself there. First you say you believe in God and then you say you don't know if there is a God.