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No Richard.
In your example it would still be backspin, sir, except the cueball would travel towards you instead of away from you. |
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Goodnight Naydam. :)
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I haven't seen the O'Sullivan interview Mavis; I've just arrived home from abroad.
Ronnie is not normally lauded for such skills though it must be said. |
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i disagree, but feel i'm flailing in some kind of net.
anyway, isn't a cue ball's natural state motionless? |
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Yes Dave, until it is struck by the cuetip of course.
Don't worry sir, despite your username this is not a fishing thread I promise. :) I was just pointing out that the snooker commentators often use the term 'topspin' to imply that the white ball has some sort of overspin intilled upon it as it is rolling forwards. This is blatantly not the case at all. The fact is this is impossible. It is just rolling naturally. As Rockmonkey pointed out earlier in this thread: the word 'topspin' is a misnomer. There is no topspin, just an absence of backspin. |
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This seems a ludicrous statement on paper, but when you try to action such an effect on a snooker table (as Rob Dylan can testify) it becomes much clearer.
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If you have a cue ball full length of the table and an object ball right over a pocket you can impart spin by hitting the very top of the cue ball so it actually goes back on itself when yu've potted the object ball.
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Correct TG, but the effect you are witnessing is backspin, not topspin.
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The point I am trying to get across is this:
If you wish the cueball to follow through after hitting the object ball - yes, of course, you must strike above-centre on the white, but any higher than a fraction above is foolhardy for it will not make one iota of difference to how far the cueball travels. This is governed entirely by how hard you strike, not how high. |
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all PM is saying is that the bal you strike does not SLIDE forwars when you impart 'topspin'.
PM watch the interview, its on bbc sport website. So may people are whinging and whining about his interview but ffs, surely a bit of non-cliche'd honesty is way better than the manufactured boring drivel that most sportsmen are trained to recite?!?! good night, ty! |
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Goodnight Mavis, I'll try and find the interview tomorrow, sir. :)
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And you're correct. sir: if you strike the cueball above centre it starts to roll immediately without sliding. And this is as much as it can ever do when actioned by a cuestick.
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POKERMONSTER! You are here at last!
Can you answer the question I've posted up several times on the previous page please? The one about what happens to the cue ball if you put top spin and side spin on it. |
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hurry up, i'm waiting to go out.
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He's having a nap (NAP). Severely jetlagged I imagine.
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just wake him up for a minute momm, it's the least he can do as i've been waiting a month for him to answer and i have to go out soon!
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and it's the wednesday morning trip to Lidl so it's not like i can put it off either.
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I'll see to it that he answers your question as soon as he's had a gallon of black coffee.
His reply will probably be awaiting you on your return. |
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righto momm, thanks mate. can i get you anything while i'm down there? some te year old german sausage? or some ready made sandwich filler for 45p?
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A kind offer munch but I already have a full complement of staff to do all my fetching and carrying. Thanks anyway.
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tissues are very cheap in Lidl. you can pick up 10 small packets for £1.59. bargain that is because you can pay 50p each in the newsagent.
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340 postings ffs - you lot need a life !!
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You obviously missed the bit about me going to Lidl this morning.
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Good evening Munch. :)
I wasn't ignoring you, sir; just didn't realise new life had been breathed into this old thread. I'm afraid your query requires rather a complicated answer so please bear with me. Just before I directly address the question regarding a cueball's physical motion when struck with high-sidespin (imagine 10:30 or 1:30 on a clock face) you might be interested to learn that, although it still demands a skilled cuist, it is actually far easier than playing with low-sidespin (7:30 or 4:30) or equatorial-sidespin (9:00 or 3:00). Any reasonable snooker or pool player could testify to this, even though they may not have considered the scientific reasons as to why such a difference exists. Essentially, it is due to the fact that less of the white's mass is above the cuetip. When you strike a cueball on a point away from its vertical centre it will instantly move in the opposite direction to some small degree. This effect is sometimes referred to as deflection and a player must adjust his aiming accordingly to compensate for it. How much it deflects in this manner depends on how hard you have hit it; how far away from its centre; and how much of the white's mass is above the cuetip. Low-sidespin causes the most deflection, then equatorial-sidespin, and high-sidespin the least (this is why it is easier to gauge). The amount of actual sidespin applied is also proportionate to these ratios. Have you noticed how striking very low allows one to attain much more side? Well now you know why. Anyway, sir, I digress. You want to know what happens to the white when struck with high-sidespin. My research with slow-motion recordings has led me to believe the following: The white instantly begins rolling (because it has been struck above its horizontal plain and has gripped the cloth without sliding) but it also retains an amount of lateral momentum due to the off-centre hit. When it collides with the colour the cueball's natural forward roll is arrested and, crucially, allows the sidespin to take effect. During this phase the white is, for want of a better term, sliding. The best analogy I can offer would be to imagine a spinning dime on a table-top: although often drifting laterally the coin would clearly not be rolling in the true sense of the word. I sincerely hope this answers your question, Munch, and thank you once again for your interest. |
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Nice one pokermonster! i surprised myself actually because i guessed it might be something like that. it really interests me as i once was quite a good golfer and some of the ideas of spin are a bit similar i suppose. thank you.
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if theres no overspin then i have no idea how a banana shot works.
put a red over a pocket, blast it in slightly off centre with loads of top. if you catch it, the white will hit the cushion, 'bite' the baize and go back towards the cushion again. if the first forward motion after hitting the object ball is just momentum then surely the white would just rocket back off the cushion towards you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEsmL0CJmqU |
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the spin would be totally reversed for that to happen
so it doesnt |
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i know it doesn't - hence there must be some overspin in there?
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:)
for a thread of nearly 300 posts someone must disagree but i thought all top/screw/stun was pretty simple |
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Hello PM....I trust all is well on your travels...
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Yes, thank you Jim. :)
A bit of a hiccup that has seen me travel home for a couple of weeks but every cloud has a silver lining as they say: I'm in the final of a poker competition on Thursday for a trip to the WSOP in Vegas. Twenty-two left and I'm chip-leader. |
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what live satellite is that?
and why the delay in playing |
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It's a live game CB, not online. :)
I rarely play internet poker these days: I find it too boring and don't think it's completely straight. |
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erm i know it's live, that's what i said
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Oh yes, sorry!
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It's being played over two sessions on Thursday and Sunday because these were the most suitable dates for the proprietors.
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i see
seems shady lol |
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It's not CB. All straightforward and above board I can assure you.
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PM, As a high level pool player, I will put it simply as I see it and how it has been explained to me by pro's.
When a cue ball is struck dead centre, the ball will skid for a short distance, then it will start to rotate. However, the cue ball has already lost most of it's force as skidding fights against the nap of the cloth, and so will not rotate very quickly. In fact, a cue ball hit dead straight at medium pace will just roll on a few inches as the object ball absorbs it's impact. When you hit the cue ball through the top, it will rotate instantanously. There is absolute bundles less resistance to a rotating cue ball that there is to a skidding one. So the ball will lose hardly any speed before it meets the object ball. Once it meets the object ball, the impact will naturally slow it down, but it will still have so much force that the weight of the ball pushes itself forward and starts to rotate the cue ball immediately causing it to run forward. A screwback is the same principle , but obviously reversed so the ball is rotating backwards and a stun shot is hit so that the cue ball rotates backwards, but very slowly, therefore meaning that any impact will halt the rotation and pretty much stop the cue ball in its tracks. |
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Hi Treb. Thanks for your reply, sir.
You're pretty much spot on with your analysis above. The only point I would take issue with is the last paragraph concerning stun shots. A stun occurs when an object ball is struck by a sliding cueball, not a backspinning one. A cueball will be sliding because it has: a) been struck very hard in the centre and has not had a chance to regain its grip on the baize to begin a natural forward roll; or b) it has been struck below centre and the backspin has worn off. In this second instance the white experiences a momentary sliding phase before once again starting to roll pole over pole. If the cueball meets the object ball head on when it is sliding it will stop dead in its tracks. All equally weighted objects will do this (the reaction is most commonly witnessed when a curling stone slides full on into another on the ice). If the white strikes the colour a glancing blow whilst sliding, it will deflect away at an exact ninety degree angle. |