1.- Jesus was a real person
2.- the historic figures mentioned in the new testament (kings, countries, monetary units, customs of the time, etc.) are true.
3.- the evangelists (the 4 disciples whos recounts of events make the new testament) were registered, real people.
4.- pontious pilot was real
5.- barabas was a real person.

All our points are correct, the problem with Snooch is he doesn't know what fence to sit on never mind which side. He doesn't have a clue.


and many many more 'ounces' of proof that the events recorded in the new testament did take place. As for how Jesus fed thousands with a few loafs of bread and some fish, it is called a miracle.

David Blane could have done a better job. I'm afraid these parts of the story need to be taken with a pinch of salt, they were written many years after Jesus' demise.

i pray for you that you never get really sick, cause then you will have no one to pray for a miracle from... when ones beloved science abandons them, they turn to higher power. when i was about to lose my child, and science raised their hands, told me take him home, i prayed and i prayed, and my prayers were answered.

Sorry to hear about your child, if it gave you comfort then there is no harm but its like wearing copper bracelets as a healing power. There's no proof but it acts as a placebo.

and for those who needed proof, there is the teaching of thomas... he did not beleive either...

This is one of the books that made the final copy, what about all those books that were left out?

finally, i wonder, do you have the b alls to say that the Quoran isnt so? denounce it as fake, and Mohd as a false profet, as surely if the bible is fake, so is the holy scripture of the muslims (who also beleive in Jesus as a prophet, but not the son of God). Or how about the dead sea scrolls, denounce those as well. I'm sure your wise crack remark will be "ok i denounce them" but on a forum? go down to your local mosque. i will bet you 1000 pounds you do not do it. problem is, that it comes from fear, not respect...

I've never read the koran but I would reckon it would spout the same rubbish as the christian version. Who's god is correct, seemingly millions believe in allah. Maybe the Hindu god is the right one, or Sihk, or Budda, if one is wrong why not them all? The reason we don't picket any churches or mosques is that we don't really give a toss what people do with their private lives, unlike the christian religion that forces their beliefs on others.

our religion teaches turn the other cheak. all you know how to do is give cheak...

The same religion that murdered millions in the crusades?

what happens when we die and find out for x number of years we have been worshipping the wrong god??

to answer orioles, i am greek orthodox christian

to answer the 'i am smarter than you, i dont beleive man'

do you have a photo? is that it? your argument?

by the way, yes, the census which was taking place during the time of the birth of christ (thats why joseph and mary couldnt find a place to stay and stayed in the barn...) records many of the figures mentioned. now you dont beleive that there was a pontious pilot, or a Harodd. i think that is a matter of common history, no?

how about the temple in jerusalem, is that fake too?

what about mesopotamia, did that exist, do you have a photo? LOL

Was Mary a sluut who came up with the worst excuse to hide an adulterous successful porking?

I do understand wedge - I had my tongue in your cheek when I replied ;)

when u sit down and read all that jesus said, or, rather, what wording/teaching was attributed to him, you have to ask yourself 'is this person for real?' 'is he who he claims he is?'
If not, and you arent really arsed one way or another as to yuor possible eternal destiny, or indeed, the opportunity of actually having a living relationship with God himself, then you must be reasonably positive about an alternative viewpoint, and that particular viewpoint to me only spells death, blackness, hopelessness and complete and utter futility in all aspects of life.
He said he was/is, one with the father, he said he the gret 'I AM' also that he anyone who has seen him has seen the father, i dont believe mohamad made such claims, nor did he tell people the most important thing which matters in life, indeed the only thing, is to love God and your neighbour as yourself, i cant understand how anyone can find fault with such sayings as that!!
Religion ie men who interpret their own viewpoint and change the meaning to suit their own ends, are the ones who then misuse and twist what has been taught, and then u get for eg the catholic church imposing tradition on others even by force, this should never be the case.

thankyoumugs, i beleive you are incorrect. the bread in holy communion symbolizes the body, and the wine the blood. from what i am aware, the catholic religion does not use the wine in their ceremony, only the bread. orthodox use both. other denominations i dont know to be honest.

as for the way to be, (re orthodox the way to go, hahahah) the way to be is thoughfull of others, love your neighbor as you do yourself, and never do on to others what you would not like done to you. i understand religion is not for everyone, but these are the principles in which we beleive. i do not find anything wrong with the above statements, and try to live my life by them. I am not perfect, as no human is, but i refuse to buy into the hatred being sown throughout the world. people are more ready to beleive in money, than the basic doctrines of love, with the excuse that 'i have no proof god exists'... So? does that mean we are not morally oblidged to be good humans, good neighbors? just because there is no punishment? thanks but no thanks...

they do use wine in catholicism and bread is beleived to be the actual body of christ, not just bit of bread but the real deal. central teaching is to become more christ like in our ways, eachday.

ivor, i am glad you think this is a common ground, as thats all thats needed. i am happy that at least the fundamentals are there.

as for the parents who loose their children, i beleive that they may prefer to think of their child as an angel, wathcing from heaven, than a nothingness being eaten up by worms.

ivor im bot sure i believe in eternal punihsment any longer, i think hell is eternal separation Form God, ie if thats what u choose for yourself in this life, thats what youll get in the next...
To live without God is indeed hell, even tho u may not believe it or be aware of it.

why was jesus missing for half of his life
why are we all not jewish as he was

jack dee and frank skinner are both devout catholics and they are two of my favourite comedians

snooch, u can research ouja board stuff online, people who dont believe in 'such nonsense' will always ridicule, those who believe there are powers and principalities in the air will wanr of the possible dangers and consequences of fooling with something which can threaten your health, and, even if u dont think theres anything to it, is it really worth the risk?

I know a lady who has had lots of things happen to her since she dabbled, heard voices, been raped, sexually assaulted, been aware of evil presence in her parents home, mother taken to drugs and booze (since died) broken relationships, plus other stuff.

I would also ask non believers, if we're all one mass of molecules, etc why do we all need to feel loved?
I would say this is an essential necessity of human life, where does this need come from? why do we have the capacity to feel love and emotion while a rhino, for eg, cannot?

Correct Ivor

well said Orio

what was all that b.ollox about straight lines not being straight ffs. worst argument i've ever heard.

fek me.

How do you 'directly relate' a ouija board to events in someone's life - unless you have a pre-conception of course.

ivor,because the run of events in the ladys life could not be put down to ill fortune, and only occurred after the ouja board playing...

oh and the reason why people such as vel and myself quote the bible, and say things like, 'God said,' is because we believe the bible is the living word of God, ok he used fallible man to spread his message, he also gives man free will to say and do as he pleases, so you'll get anti christian organizations such as the roman catholic church taking bits out, adding their own man made traditions, etc.
There are, however, certain scriptures you cant argue with, such as the prophetic teachings in isaiah 53 about jesus sacrifice, psalm 22, etc which were written cetnuries before his birth, and i am satisfied historically that the OT was wrtten before the New!!

fairway 14 Dec 20:31

why are we all not jewish as he was
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He wasn't Jewish , a mis-conception over our Nazarine friend .

Yeah, and Henry confiscated all the RC property while he was at it. :)