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Hibore
09 Nov 21 17:40
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Date Joined: 23 Jun 07
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Starting up the Gold Cup thread to share thoughts for the big one in March.

Minella, Galvin and Chantry have all had a run and performed well enough. The Betfair Chase looks a cracker if they all turn up and King George likewise.

Not sure when APT will surface but expect it will be around Xmas.

Any early thoughts 4 months out ?

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Replies: 148
By:
WhiteHatJon
When: 10 Nov 21 08:45
I've backed Eklat De Rire ew @ 66/1 to win a right few quid.

7 year old from the all powerful De Bromkead/Blackmore combination, won at Wexford a few weeks ago and is now 40/1 best.

That will do for me.
By:
irishone
When: 10 Nov 21 11:22
We have entered him in the race at Newbury, the Ladbroke Trophy, we just entered him in that this morning. He could possibly go for that, I'm not sure. We will take it one day at a time with him. Rachael said he was pretty straight today and we had him ready for it.  Henry De Bromhead
By:
buddeliea
When: 13 Nov 21 08:52
Chantry House seems to keep improving for the step up
In distance. Jumps well and his supreme run behind a superstar and another good one, suggests a good deal of class.
Can he cut it over 3m 2 at Cheltenham though?
Hope so and huge player if he can.
By:
impossible123
When: 20 Nov 21 19:52
Have we seen the winner today at Haydock? He seems to have progressed from last season. At 4/1 what's not to like unless Champ is a racehorse again.
By:
duffy
When: 20 Nov 21 20:20
Been saying for a while that the front two from last year are stand outs, 6 and 8's respectively.

However, if you haven't backed APT at 8's then you couldn't possibly back him at 4's at this stage, the opposition today was substandard relative to a GC and for all his impressiveness you could argue that he did what was expected and it certainly isn't the first time this race has been won with such a performance and indeed by horses without a GC claim that he has.

At this stage IMO MI should still be the fav and APT will have to prove he's as strong a stayer as last year's winner on the day, which is the big doubt.
By:
Bentring
When: 20 Nov 21 22:36
Agree with above and ur post of 6 and 8 were 2 on the right side of the Irish Sea
By:
Bentring
When: 20 Nov 21 22:47
Watched race and thought wow so hopefully saying wow when I go to Navan tomorrow
By:
impossible123
When: 21 Nov 21 11:25
'duffy', true. However, it's been a long while since an Irish talent overwhelmed its British counterparts. I was impressed with the way he walked away with the race so effortlessly.

The opposition might have undeperformed nevertheless the manner APT won must not be overlooked either.
By:
irishone
When: 21 Nov 21 15:20
"it's been a long while since an Irish talent overwhelmed its British counterparts"

What like 8 months ?
By:
duffy
When: 21 Nov 21 15:29
^
I was just going to say thatGrin
By:
Hibore
When: 30 Nov 21 18:56
Champ looks likely to restart his career at Aintree Saturday. Looking at the horses he beat in the RSA it would be great for the sport if he could become competitive come March whether over fences or maybe hurdles.
By:
impossible123
When: 03 Dec 21 18:40
At this rate Champ would be an unlikely runner for this esp if a hurdle race is preferred. And, I've stopped listening to Hendo - a bookie's man.
By:
sageform
When: 05 Dec 21 12:07
It is really exasperating, particularly if you have Shishkin and Chantry House in your 10 to follow! I shall think twice about putting any of his in next year.
By:
strontium
When: 05 Dec 21 12:39
Hendo doesn't usually get going until the Hennessey meeting, but apparently it's been so dry he's only been able to get his horses on grass in the last week or so. However, he also treats his stars more like ornaments than racehorses nowadays.
By:
strontium
When: 05 Dec 21 15:25
The way this season's going, might be few runners this time round.
By:
sageform
When: 05 Dec 21 19:02
Gold Cup, 6 Irish 2 GB?
By:
irishone
When: 06 Dec 21 19:22
However, " he also treats his stars more like ornaments than racehorses nowadays. "

Absolutely, in hindsight champs preparation last year was very poor , what happened to altior ? Why isnt Shishkin ready this time of year ?| I have heard he is a sick man, hope its not true.
By:
sageform
When: 10 Dec 21 17:28
Nicky has lost most of his sight which can't help but he looked and sounded fine otherwise on Luck on Sunday. Not having a watered grass gallop has been a serious disadvantage but he has had 4 comfortable novice hurdle wins in the last week. Apart from Shiskin and Chantry House the chasers look pretty thin as is often the case.
By:
impossible123
When: 12 Dec 21 18:53
I'm sorry Hendo has lost most of his sight, and I did not know that. As a follower of his charges I've been dismayed about his communication on their well-being (fitness) and missing intended appointments esp Champ. Thank-goodness it's only horseracing and must not be taken too seriously.
By:
sixtwosix
When: 15 Dec 21 18:19
Protektorat and Fiddlerontheroof are the two for me.

Protektorat could go Ryanair(the same could be said for three quarters of the hopefuls ....it was a bad idea). he looks to improving at a rate of knots.

I do like a strong finisher for Cheltenham and  Fiddlerontheroof was not stopping at the end of the Henessey.
By:
impossible123
When: 18 Dec 21 16:41
Could Champ be in the field despite winning the Long Walk today? If so, APT and Champ for the finish. No????
By:
strontium
When: 18 Dec 21 22:40
He'd have to get over the first fence properly this time.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 19 Dec 21 07:46
2 to consider at bigger  prices have very  decent novice form   consistent and eyecatching runs this term janadil and protectorat ,janadil a very good 2nd to allaho in the jonny durkan ,allaho will prob go ryanire again lively outsider worth a crack at 3m plus and 40/1 each way.
also protectorat good novice form last term very good 1st time up this term and looked a strong stayer winning easily  at aintree last week.20/1 each way  both progressing well and more to come.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 19 Dec 21 07:47
very good 2nd 1st time up^^^
By:
impossible123
When: 19 Dec 21 08:05
I think connections of Champ would be absolute bonkers not to go down this route given his age and his win in the RSA provided he's sound (back issue truly sorted) and can jump competitively. However, I do think he needs a pop over fences in a trial prior; The Stayers is not comparable to the Blue Riband; competition from Ireland is tough too. 

If Champ is not ready this year, next year could be more competitive given the younger pretenders from Ireland.
By:
strontium
When: 19 Dec 21 09:38
My gut feeling is that Champ will go Gold Cup. Nick seems to think he's up to it, and JP is a sportsman. Yet the Stayers Hurdle is surely by far his best chance of actually winning at the Festival. Presumably it'll be the Cotswold Chase or the Cleeve Hurdle next, which would tell us what the thinking is.
By:
impossible123
When: 19 Dec 21 16:40
Did Hendo not re-affirm Champ was a Gold Cup horse and there might be another at the beginning of the season? Also, Champ was entered for the Betfair Chase and Many Clouds.

If Champ can jump competitively I cannot see a reason why he'd not be this way bound given his RSA triumph. The Stayers is no comparison; Thistlecrack was redirected this way despite unbeatable in The Stayers; Buveur D'Air reverted to hurdle because of Altior.

I think Champ is the best JP has for this race.
By:
strontium
When: 19 Dec 21 17:18
But that's a huge "if". The horse is not a good jumper of a fence. The RSA he won fell apart because of the frantic pace - he win it in spite of his own jumping. He appears to be a considerably better hurdler, and he won a good-looking trial yesterday (including a very good yardstick of the Irish form). Nevertheless, because of his connections, I think he will end up in the Gold Cup unless Chantry House puts up a big run on Boxing Day.
By:
impossible123
When: 20 Dec 21 08:22
Indeed. The performance of Chantry House (CH) in the KG will have a significant bearing on Champ's participation here. Nevertheless, I just do not think CH is a big player; I'd not even rate him as high as Santini certainly not Might Bite. But for Champ the Irish have this race in the bag already, I firmly believe.
By:
irishone
When: 20 Dec 21 09:16
Ronald pump ?
A good yardstick of Irish form ?
Not at three miles mate
By:
strontium
When: 20 Dec 21 09:46
You mean the Ronald Pump who was second in the Stayers Hurdle and third over 3 m at the Punchestown Festival? Or are we talking about a different Ronald Pump? I didn't say he's the best of the Irish over 3 m, but that is the company he regularly mixes in.
By:
paulo47
When: 20 Dec 21 12:40
Personally think he will go Stayers for 2022  , dont know how severe the treatment was , but more time over hurdles now cannot hurt . Plus who knows what sort of a mental scar the previous Gold Cup  has left .
By:
Hibore
When: 20 Dec 21 16:29
Champ had back surgery 2 years ago and the vet always thought he didn’t get all the fragments out. Nicky told me he went back in the summer to the same vet who performed a repeat op and found what he missed the first time.

Reading between the lines they will see how Chantry runs on Boxing Day and then see if Champ needs to bolster their Gold Cup challenge or concentrate on the Stayers if Chantry performs like they think he will.
By:
Hibore
When: 20 Dec 21 16:29
Champ has undoubtedly had his problems. A Grade One winner over hurdles (Sefton Novices’ Hurdle) and over fences (RSA Novices’ Chase, beating Minella Indo), he fell in the Cheltenham Gold Cup in March and had a subsequent back operation.

His reappearance at Ascot after nine months off in the Howden Long Walk Hurdle was supposed to be something of a fact-finding mission for Nicky Henderson’s charge, a prep run for bigger things to come.

Yet he showed real determination, finding a second wind and coming back on the bridle to win with ease. The official verdict was a length and three-quarters, but in truth he simply broke runner-up Thyme Hill’s heart.

In this calendar year, Champ has had three runs – the Game Spirit Chase, Cheltenham Gold Cup and Long Walk Hurdle. An unlikely trio if ever there was one.

So now connections have a problem. The nine-year-old – named after 20-time champion Sir Anthony McCoy – is such a talent that he has McManus and Henderson in a quandary.

“Which race to go for – the Gold Cup or Stayers’ Hurdle? We’ll leave it to Nicky,” said McManus.

“I’ve no problem staying over hurdles and equally, if he goes over fences, I have no problem with that.”

Unusually, he candidly added: “There are few horses in training that give me as much pleasure as this horse.

“He is named after the man he’s named after (McCoy) and he is a slow or late-maturing horse who has had niggly problems all his life, but Nicky has shown tremendous patience in dealing with them and giving him the time.

“No horse gives me as much pleasure. We deliberated a long time before we put it (McCoy’s nickname) on a horse, so we thought a lot of him from the start.”

Champ has won six of his eight races over hurdles now and the Stayers’ Hurdle is certainly on the radar, especially since Henderson has lost – for the time being at least – his top hope Buzz. The ante-post favourite was ruled out with a pelvic injury on the eve of the Long Walk.

Though immediately cut to 4-1 favourite for the Stayers’ by Coral afterwards, another crack at the Gold Cup remains a possibility, should his jumping not hold him back.

For Henderson, it was merely a relief to get him back on course after his back operation and McManus was keen to pay tribute to the veteran trainer.

“It was a great training performance by Nicky,” said McManus.

“After Cheltenham last year, it was challenging. I wouldn’t know much about the injury, but he had a back injury and Nicky did a tremendous job to get him back and I have to give him full marks.

“Champ summered well and he came back in good form, and we hoped that this is what he would do, but you never know, especially after that run in the Gold Cup, which was a disappointing run for everybody.

“It is back to the drawing board, but he looked to enjoy himself.”

While Henderson felt his class may be an asset ahead of the Long Walk, he insisted he would need the run.

McManus added: “Nicky had him fairly ready in fairness. He doesn’t leave too much to chance.

“I would say he will be better for the run and it was exciting when he ran a little bit free about 10 furlongs out – I said, ‘God, not so early – there is plenty of time for that’.

“But he did well to see it out and get his second wind and see off Thyme Hill.”

Of course, the billion dollar question remains.

“I would like to do the right thing, whatever that is,” said McManus.

“I’d like to do the right thing for the horse, whether it is the Gold Cup or the Stayers’.

“Let’s see how he comes out of this. It is a high-class problem!”

And in Henderson, McManus and McCoy, there is no better team to solve it.
By:
duffy
When: 21 Dec 21 17:13
but in truth he simply broke runner-up Thyme Hill’s heart.

I thought TH half chucked it in.
By:
irishone
When: 23 Dec 21 05:52
Hardly irish form mate the stayers hurdle ?

Last time I looked Cheltenham hadnt been moved
By:
irishone
When: 29 Dec 21 00:39
Indo needs a left handed course, only won once right handed at punchestown on dodgy ground that caught a lot out.
By:
duffy
When: 29 Dec 21 17:25
irish,

What were the cheekpieces for and do you agree that Rachael's insistence on hassling Frodon at every point the pace seemed to slacken messed with the horse a bit.

BTW Well done with that Galvin bet, very good class 1 chaser himGrin
By:
Hibore
When: 29 Dec 21 17:54
Just watched Upping the Ante and must agree with the Irish boys that the Gold Cup may have left it’s mark on Minella. It’s run at Kempton was so bad…much worse than it’s runs last year around Xmas. De Bromhead form ? Too hard a Gold Cup ? We will see. Native River took a season to get over the race and Might Bite never recovered.

Backed Galvin yesterday but won’t be topping up my 20/1 GC at 7/1 at this stage. Surely won’t be much shorter on the day unless he runs and wins Irish Gold Cup.

APT is still in the mix. Anyone grabbing the 5/1 PP after the race yesterday as a decent bet at least ew.

The Cotswold Chase could be a key race now. At least we will see if Champ is going back over fences as there isn’t anything to scare JP off after the Xmas grade 1’s.

Apart from that Protectorat may be interesting. Wonder where he’ll go next.
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