The image of him fairly sprinting up the run in of the world hurdle and the wow factor that created is going to stick in peoples minds and cause us to look for excuses for him, stopping us to proper judge his performance the other day, for me it quite clearly wouldn't be good enough to win any chase at the festival let alone a gold cup.

Time to improve but any ballooning jumps in a championship race and he's no chance.

All about the fundamentals and his aptitude and technique for chasing at this stage, that's what connections want to know about, doesn't matter how far he could have beat marinero by....slick jumping at the fences with no obvious flaws is what they need to see with regards the future...didn't see it.

I agree with Duffy here.

If he hadn't had his World Hurdle campaign and you just watched his race the other day in the context of another novice chase, you'd be thinking wow - he looks a really good staying novice chaser and a live chance in the RSA.  A few more runs in novice company to tidy up his jumping a bit will put him spot on for Cheltenham.

To win the RSA you need to run to about the mid to high 150's, to win the Gold Cup you'll probably need around mid 170's.  You'd think based on that run the other day, mid to high 150's would be easily achievable for him after another couple of runs and he'd be very very short for the RSA, but I'm not sure after say two more, he'd be able to run to mid 170's unless his jumping improves a lot.

If you look at that race and think we are watching quite a strong Gold Cup favourite here, you would surely want him to jump better than he did?

Don't get me wrong, if he does win the Gold Cup I wouldn't be surprised because of his natural ability, and it'd be great for NH racing, but now at 7/2 - 4/1, Coneygree's price of 10's seems huge to me.  To win the Gold Cup you need to tank along and be foot perfect all the way round - we know Thistlecrack will tank along, but he needs to do the latter better, plus he'll be going a lot faster.

Maybe that was the issue the other day?  The opposition were too weak?  I think they need to up the standard of his opposition pretty sharpish to see where they really stand.  If anything the few mistakes the other day might give them something to work on, because if he'd hopped around like a 1/7 shot should, they'd have learnt nothing again.

I can understand the decision to go for the Gold Cup - I bet Ricci will always regret not giving Vautour a go, and Coneygree's injury last year says sometimes you have to strike while the iron is hot.  However, if he were mine, I'd target the RSA initially, and then if he does do something extraordinary like Coneygree did, then maybe think of the Gold Cup if he can prove he looks ready, rather than committing to the Gold Cup before he'd even jumped a fence.

I wasn't being entirely serious about Kauto although he did have a few heart stopping moments later in life too.
True that Thistle is up against the clock but I guess I just didn't see he last effort in the same light as you.
His journey (or not) to the gold cup has certainly added spice to first half of the season tho.

As for wellchief's point about targeting the RSA, I would be have thought it is gold cup or nothing.
I can only think on what I would do as a trainer or owner but if after another couple of outings that is as good
as they deem him I would have another tilt at the stayers hurdle. If for no other reason than it is double the prize money
If they run him in the novice events at Newbury & Kempton that still gives them time to change plan if it doesn't
work out.

But if you think he could still end up a GC horse next year, then it makes perfect sense to do the RSA this year for me. Just because he's been novicey in his first two starts, doesnt mean he isnt going to make it as a Chaser.

Think it would be very short sighted to switch back to hurdles... when they can just take a bit longer and used the more recognised route to the GC.

I too think it would be short sighted CCM.  He is bred to be a chaser, and as a novice has been impressive in his first two runs, and I think he'd be near unbeatable in the RSA.  He never looked like coming down the other day, but if he wss up against proper opposition he'd have lost a chunk of lengths at quite a few fences.

All I was saying before was if he were mine (and unfortunately he's not), I would definitely send him chasing (he would never beat Big Bucks' record so try something different), but I'd explain to the betting public that we are going down the novice route but let people know that if he does appear to be Gold Cup standard then he'll be rerouted, so back him for either race at your peril.  I just think they are putting unnecessary pressure on themselves declaring the Gold Cup before they knew if he was any good or not.

I don't see going the RSA path as ducking the big races or running scared; I see it as the natural path a 3m novice chaser would take before a crack at the Gold Cup when they are suitably prepared, rather than being rushed.

I get that he'll be 10 next year, but as I said a few posts a go, Cue Card was in the form of his life as a 10 yo, and could well have won a Gold Cup but for a fall, and he has well more miles on the clock than Thistlecrack; plus as much as I love Cue Card, Thistlecrack is a better horse.

I think they are brave going over fences because he is so far ahead of the staying hurdling division, but the 3m chasing division is a lot more competitive - not just the Gold Cup and World Hurdle, but the big 3m chasers throughout the year are a lot stronger than the 3m hurdle races mid season.

At the moment I think the chance of Thistlecrack lining-up in the Gold Cup (GC) is less than that of Caravaggio in the 2000G; if the jumping of Thistlecrack does not improve post Newbury his chance will be nearer 'zero', I firmly believe. At 7/2 to win it Thistlecrack is definitely a 'lay' - I'd be demanding 7/2 'with a run' in the GC let alone to win.

If Cue Card wins the King George, will he really line up in the Gold Cup and possibly deny CC the million pound bonus.

Yes, I know its different owners, but can't believe he will.

cc owners are v wealthy.

The total winnings of CC should CC win the King George and the Gold Cup is over £1.3m (including bonus).

Coneygree ran a good race considering, however, still beaten 15 lengths by CC with CC 'reluctantly' taking it up 2 fences out from the former as the former was tiring. Also, an extra 2f in the Gold Cup will be more to the liking of CC than Coneygree and the probability of Djakadam to tow CC along (further) is also a plus for CC, I'd imagine.

bring the house down if Mr Cuey won the Gold Cup

For now I'll go with who I mentioned back in March/April time with regards to the Gold Cup picture. Valseur Lido is the one for me as it stands. Thought his run behind Vautour in the Ryanair was excellent and his run behind Menorah at Sandown was acceptable over trips that were not adequate. He wants every inch of the Gold Cup trip and Cheltenham suits him down to the ground, a proper staying chaser who does his best work at the end of a race. Will go in any ground, doesn't matter whether there's a ton of cut or genuine good ground. He may not have beaten much yet but I prefer young upcoming improvers and he is definitely on the rise with a grade one in open company in the bag now. Just a shame I didn't back him a few weeks ago when he was trading at 38 on here

I'd expect him to be beaten by Cue Card if he runs in the King George but it can't be much worse than his run last year. But then we all know Boxing day and the second friday in March are very different days in more ways than one. I don't see any value in the front three of the gold cup market at all and Don Cossack is too much of a gamble with his injury. Djakadam is the only other one who mildly interests me at the prices.

The tactic employed at Wetherby was incorrect as I believe CC is a much better horse tracking horses until the 2nd or last fence; I agree CC has nothing to prove whether he is up to winning the Gold Cup - it was unfortunate he fell whilst upside Don Cossack, the eventual winner this year. However, the same cannot be said for the majority of the others eg Thistlecrack, Coneygree and Don Cossack (injury), Djakadam, Douvan (possibly), etc, and at 7/1 and 2/1 for the Gold Cup and King George respectively CC is reasonably priced.

Surely they decided on the GC because of his age?

I would have still gone down the RSA route if he were mine, but I think calling them 'arrogant' is ridiculous. |Pretty sure Tizzard knows how good the horse is, and if he thinks a GC candidate then that will do for me.

A TV pundit (cannot remember his name) stipulated either it is the GC or the WH for Thistlecrack, the RSA is not an option to connections (apparently). If so, 2018 GC a certainty to take part, not win.

Much, much better round of jumping, and 7/2 for the Gold Cup...still not convinced (yet).

If the Newbury round of jumping doesnt convince then you wont be getting the 7/2 about the Gold Cup. Wait till he wins on the snaff in the King George and take the 4/6 that will be on offer. Vautour was the only horse around capable of putting it up to him in the Gold Cup. Cracking price he is.

Give it a rest Polly. Get some fresh air tomorrow

Let's see where he goes at x'mas period eg King George or Feltham? I'm beginning to warm towards him after Newbury. We might have to wait a little bit longer for the duel between him and Cue Card, I think.

Can we get this thread back on track please? Embarrassing to say the least.