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Things I've learned at the Festival

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By:
duffy
When: 15 Mar 14 02:18
CF was in the right race, the fault was that walsh, although bowling along out in front, still didn't make full use of that serious strong cruising speed he has, hence there was still 5 or 6 still in it turning in, I reckon the previous fall left more of a mark on the jockey than it did the horse.

vautour is a monster, I'd back him for the arkle if I wasn't worried that with the possible omission of SS again next year, he could end up in the queen mum as a novice!!!Wink
By:
Shrews
When: 15 Mar 14 03:34
Quevega (Robin Des Champs x Vega IV)has a full sister and a full brother:


Sivega (Mare) (2006)- ran once in France - unplaced. No progeny

Vivega (Gelding) (2009) - trained by Willie Mullins. Had his fist run in a NHF race at Navan in February this year. Finished a 10 length 3rd of 7 on heavy. One for the future ?


Robin Des Champs is also the sire of Vautour, Sir Des Champs, Un Temps Pour Tout amongst others
By:
Ming_the_Merciless
When: 15 Mar 14 09:04
age - youth is everything, look forward not back

simply avoid the handicaps after a wet winter, on the faster ground the form becomes ridiculous.
By:
Steamship
When: 15 Mar 14 09:07
We need this thread near the top at the start of next season so that we dont forget the rules/trends
By:
rogerthebutler
When: 15 Mar 14 12:46
If you looked at the handicaps this year, they were almost invariably won by the better quality horses. What I mean is the winners came from the top half of the handicap, often the first several in the handicap, and something like all the handicaps were won by runners with racecard numbers higher than 13. I'm supposing that the better quality ground enables the better quality horses to perform at their peak.

Secondly, it can pay to latch on to 'in form' trainers, and follow outfits like Gigginstown, when they are on a roll.


Was going to say pretty much the same, word for word.

Whilst plot horses can never be ruled out in the handicaps, Whisper, Fingals Cave, Savello probably gave some of the trends boys nightmares, re low weights / handicap ratings orthodoxy.

Re latching onto connections that hit form for the festival, this has worked in the past - Twiston-Davies last year, Malcolm Jefferson the year before that, Gigginstown this year and arguably Alan Kings horses ran a lot better than prices indicated in the main.

Finally, regarding the ground, I just don't get whet the issue is. You know the exec will always aim t have good or good-to-soft in the title, so bar downpours on the weekend before or during the Fez, that is what it will be. As punters that is good news because to a greater degree it is a 'given' you can factor into your betting.
By:
Autocue
When: 16 Mar 14 12:32
If a horse is a true champion it can overcome track and ground conditions supposedly being against it (get in Sire de Grugy you 3/1 gift)
By:
PeteTheBloke
When: 16 Mar 14 13:38
gazovic 14 Mar 14 10:26 
ante post prices away from the big high profile names (and perhaps in general) are a travesty

more often better waiting for the morning of the race


I could dig out loads of figures to prove this wrong. The shrewdies were betting Faugheen, Dynaste, Vautour, Holywell et al
at some very nice prices. I know that Dynaste was def posted on here at 10+ and I think Holywell at 20+ (which is hardly
even an antepost bet considering how late the h'caps are priced).
By:
ZEALOT
When: 16 Mar 14 13:48
If a horse is a true champion it can overcome track and ground conditions supposedly being against it (get in Sire de Grugy you 3/1 gift)  ABSOLUTE BAULAUX.

WHAT EXACTLY DID IT BEAT AFTER CAPTAIN PULLED UP ????
By:
sageform
When: 16 Mar 14 14:31
Sire de Grugy beat all of the horses whose trainers thought they could win the QM. He has been by far the best 2 mile chaser around since Sprinter Sacre had his problem. Still will be next season in my opinion.
By:
duffy
When: 16 Mar 14 17:10
^
no
By:
bonnie
When: 16 Mar 14 17:31
the spectre is the place to drink on monday night - very cheap drinks

jaimie olivers italian is great food

lush cosmetics are scum

paddy power offer great value monday teatime

the new one was bloody unlucky

the touts offer best value for tickets
By:
comingupthehill
When: 16 Mar 14 17:39
the food was cheaper - why used to be 8.95 for any item meal.but 5/6 or dearest 7 quid - has supply and demand done this or Cheltenham making them charge less
By:
The RealDeal
When: 16 Mar 14 20:15
Duffy, imo it's v unusual for Willie to run a novice in a championship race (can't think of one) but how confident are you that he's going chasing in 8 months or so?
By:
ReaseHeath
When: 16 Mar 14 22:51
I was sceptical about SDG but I'm a convert now.

Aside from his own performance, it's worth highlighting the run of Hidden Cyclone in the Ryanair, beaten 2.25 lengths into 2nd place by Dynaste - SDG destroyed him at Ascot.
By:
SOULDANCER
When: 16 Mar 14 23:11
You need lady luck on your side. The margins between victory and defeat are wafer thin. Sire de G just missed being brought down. Calipto broken stirrup and many more.
By:
duffy
When: 16 Mar 14 23:31
The RealDeal

Although, he'd be a very strong candidate in any CH,the stable already have UDS next in line to take his place in that one and why would they want to have such strength in one race and leave themselves thin in the chasing department when you consider that vautour could very well take a tight grip on that division, bearing in mind that mullins is STILL to win an arkle or champion chase.
By:
jrw
When: 17 Mar 14 09:04
Never back r Walsh in chase at festival last winner 2009 Kauto Star
By:
Ramruma
When: 17 Mar 14 10:52
A paradox betting-wise. Three antepost selections won, but I'd have got better odds by waiting for the day. Otoh, my day-of-race bets lost, so I'm really not sure how to approach next year.
By:
Ming_the_Merciless
When: 17 Mar 14 12:05
its looks to me Ramruma that the one's you really like are the ones you should be having a real tilt at, antepost or not..... and just use the other races for opportunistic nibbles. Happy
By:
Ramruma
When: 17 Mar 14 15:38
Thanks, @Ming_the_Merciless. I guess the main difference is that I spend more time thinking (even if only subconsciously) about the antepost ones. Trouble is, there is not much value in the antepost market any more. There is value on day of race with the various bookies' offers, but things are too hectic for proper consideration.

The solution is obvious -- pick selections early but do not back them till the day -- but my will power might be lacking.
By:
The RealDeal
When: 17 Mar 14 20:59
I think willpower will be the issue re the point with Duffy above!
I tend to agree that Vautour will go chasing, it's the 5/1 for the Arkle that's making me take a closer look and challenge his credentials and alternatives.

On the plus side he looked great in the Supreme, goes on any ground and Mullins thinks he's a monster. There also seems to be a clear pecking order at the stable and Vautour, particularly as he's owned by RR, would already seem to occupy pole position to run in next year's Arkle.

On the minus side we know he's a brilliant hurdler but we don't yet know if he's as good over fences. WPM potentially has Faugheen, AP, VL and various others who could run in the Arkle, also what if UDS doesn't turn out to be as good as we think for the Champion Hurdle, plus all the other glorious uncertainties of ante post betting?

So the 5/1 seems skinny at this stage, say when compared with the 7/1 or 8/1 offered on Champagne Fever at the start of this season (and we thought that was skinny didn't we?)

I guess both CF and Vautour had/have various options open to them and resisting that 5/1 might be the difficult part!
By:
willie the milk
When: 17 Mar 14 21:07
I tell you what I'm going to do next year, and I have know it for years. Stick to the 16 Championship races. The h'caps are far to competitive.
By:
wellchief
When: 18 Mar 14 19:14
Two things for me - follow the major bookies on Twitter in the build up to the Festival.  Some great offers like Paddy Power's Vautour and Faugheen to win at 24/1 and Vautour and Sire De Grugy at 16/1.  Ladbrokes layed Quevega at 6/4 in the build up as well.

Of course, a lot of specials didn't come off, but if you pick the correct ones, you can make a few quid.

The second thing I learnt is that Arvika Legionnaire is only 10% as good as I thought he is!
By:
Autocue
When: 18 Mar 14 20:20
If a horse is a true champion it can overcome track and ground conditions supposedly being against it (get in Sire de Grugy you 3/1 gift)  ABSOLUTE BAULAUX.

WHAT EXACTLY DID IT BEAT AFTER CAPTAIN PULLED UP ????

You're the one talking absolute bollox. Sire de Grugy beat every horse put in front of him on the day and all those who weren't considered up to the task including Sprinter Sacre. The point I made is unarguable unless you're an idiot. Many people on here, in the media and at the betting firms who put him up at the demonstrably stupid price of 100/30 in the morning said he wouldn't win due to the track and going. A true champion can overcome such adversity and Sire de Grugy did so.

The other thing I've learnt is that there are too many loud mouths on the betfair forum to make it worthwhile joining the discussion.
By:
call it a day
When: 18 Mar 14 20:58
An observation regarding Mr Nicholls....now about 0 from 70 with chasers at Cheltenham in last few years. Zilch since days of Kauto?
By:
thornton reed
When: 18 Mar 14 21:36
Personally, think I need to cut down on antepost.

My bets after declaration stage went really well but my antepost bets were woeful.

Several horses I backed antepost I had completely gone off by post time; (Rule The World, Melodic Rendezvous, Rock On Ruby, Broughton, Adrianna Des Mottes...) and they often prevented me from getting involved in the day of the race market.

Next year I will try top be more selective with my antepost bets and wait until closer to the time.
By:
The RealDeal
When: 18 Mar 14 21:54
Good luck with that project TR, it's not easy Laugh
By:
thornton reed
When: 18 Mar 14 21:56
Haha, well I figured if I post it here it might help!
By:
ZEALOT
When: 19 Mar 14 21:23
Its becoming a bit too big for my liking .. everyone getting involved
By:
sageform
When: 20 Mar 14 08:55
Lay anything that tries to go for home from the top of the hill if it gets down to 2 in running.
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