I didn't mean it to come across that way roobuck. I just meant top class horses can have a bad season and come back, and that's what I hope Hf will do.

Yeah fair enough CCM, good luck. He's not for me but his chance is obvious

I am of the belief that Hurricane Fly WON'T be winning this years champ hdl simply on the basis that i can't believe that a horse can regain a championship race. Have to ask the question, has it ever been done before I am not sure but am sure there is a few statisticians on here that can work that one out for us all!

Kauto Star obviously did it, but at the time that was billed as a very rare event indeed, and the only time it had been done in the blue riband event.

What about the other three championship races Has it ever been achieved

I so however have the FLY on my side at 11/2, but am not very hopeful and i think am looking at place money at best!

GRANDOUET7/1, DARLAN9/2, poss' GRUMETI25/155on ere AND ZARKANDER7/1, DEFO ROCK ON RUBY10/1(jury is out on last time out though horrible ground and seasonal debut may well be excuses imo) and just a small feeling that on better ground given the likely very strong pace CINDERS AND ASHES20/1 and my main possibles for this race and whom i may well have on my side come March 12th antepost or otherwise at under 100% book win and place in bets. I thought same about Countrywide Flame, but he will be 5, they can't win lol!

Anyways, there are my thoughts on this race at this stage of the season, as one forumite has already stated, antepost at this stage of the season what with the weather and ground conditions we are experiencing at the moment is fraught with danger and i am in full agreement!

- Laughable price at moment
- crazy price at moment and have not as yet backed, hoping for same or better later on
- had small bet, hear kingwell maybe on agenda, could shorten up for a nice trade later on
- Backed accordingly, could prove to be a big price come March 12th!
- Big price, backed accordingly, though unsure due to stats but hope he does it for his many fans
- Aint decided if am a backer at 10/1 as yet

need a few more smileys to get your point fully across imo

Only jesting mate.

Don't look for the exceptions to the rule to justify something IMO. In general, the rule will hold up.

The Fly is a great horse but wouldn't be fancying him in what is generally a race for those on the upgrade.

I cannot see how anyone can say the Flys days have gone He wasnt right all year but is back to his best now ,. Sorry everyone but for  me its that simple , It will be soft this March of this i'm pretty sure and the Fly will be about 7/4 Fav for the race and is a cracking price at the mo because Darlan price is a complete  joke and even N H thinks thats funny -Good night

People opposed Kauto Star in 2009 because no horse had ever regained their crown after losing it.

Kauto looked below form in 2008 when he lost. Fly looked the same too, as Ruby said he was flat.

The simple fact is Fly has only lost 2 races over hurdles, the first was when he got injured and missed 5 months. The 2nd was the Champion Hurdle.

Horses like Kauto and Fly look like superstars and it's a superstar who regains the crown.

Yeah but a strong case can be made for him improving with racing. Just look back at the season he won. Each race he ran better.

Not to mention what was so wrong wth him that he miss 3 intended runs before January last season. But then the Champion Hurdle and Punchestown he looked flat.

This season we'll hopefully get to see him look back to the form of his 2011 win where he's never missed an intended race and has had impressive wins under his belt too.

Pick a side if you want, everyone has to but you can't argue with the case made there. Not to mention there's only 1 horse he'll face who has beaten him before.

The Darlan form is all last seasons novices and juveniles beating eachother. Zero form with last seasons Champion Hurdle. We all thought the Supreme and Triumph were poor renewals. There is no reason not to think they still are. Beating a handicapper in Raya Star a few lenghts isn't going to make the wise people change their minds is it. Darlan 4/1 is as stupid as the Zaynar nonsense from  few years back.

tbh I think Binocular at 33/1 is a stupid price, especially given how both AP and Ruby had their horses too far back and could never get to the fron 2 last season. Closer order will be had by both jockeys this year.

Very simplistic way of looking at Flys record tbh. Only RoR will he face who has ever beaten him.

Anyway about Binocular he wasn't as ready to run as Darlan was so same owner/trainer they made the right call to get Darlan out and hold Binocular back for Irish Champion Hurdle.

I'm a big fan of Zarkander too. Think he'll try to relly make it a stamina test like Celestial Halo did back in 2009.

I have him backed along with Fly. I had Darlan @ 24.0 but layed out of him totally @ 5.0 and will back him again once he becomes a sensible price like 6/1

CVByrne 30 Dec 12 12:10 
The Darlan form is all last seasons novices and juveniles beating eachother. Zero form with last seasons Champion Hurdle. We all thought the Supreme and Triumph were poor renewals. There is no reason not to think they still are. Beating a handicapper in Raya Star a few lenghts isn't going to make the wise people change their minds is it. Darlan 4/1 is as stupid as the Zaynar nonsense from  few years back.

tbh I think Binocular at 33/1 is a stupid price, especially given how both AP and Ruby had their horses too far back and could never get to the fron 2 last season. Closer order will be had by both jockeys this year.


Great post that CVB, the Binocular point is a very good one especially from a value point of view, I'm a HF fan myself and I think the recent International race at cheltenham bolsters the HF case somewhat.

The suspicion from last years CH was that ruby and mccoy messed it up and let the front two get away and credit wasn't really given to the winner, well in the recent race ROR travelled all over Zark through the race before blowing up and came out of the race with huge credit.

Yes, to a degree ruby messed it up but only with the hindsight that The fly wasn't on his A game that day, along with other mullins horses that week,if he was at his best he would have picked up the winner IMO, even from that position  and I think that time will tell us (and the international hints at it)that he was trying to chase down a good winner of the CH.

JP McManus was on RTE the other day at Leopardstown and when they talked about Darlan he brought up Binocular saying Nicky thinks he's really got a chance and he's definately not out of it. The way he talked about Binocular has me thinking he is a right good ew shout given with Overturn out of it he was 3rd last year ahead of Zark. AP and Ruby were too far back. I think whoever rides Binocular will keep him pretty handy and try kick off the bend.

There is no form between last years Supreme/Triumph with this season group. So if they turn out to be below par then we have a repeat of last years race with Grandouet in for Overturn and then 33/1 may look huge e/w price tbh.

Most of the horses which HF has beaten in Ireland have not been great. However if these grade 1s are so poor why dont all these so-called good English horses run in them. HF will go off clear favourite at about 5/2 come March. 9/2 a good price imo. I like a lot about Darlan but he beat a handicapper and a novice.

Nice to see im not the only one that aint forgotten Binocular.

back him as soon as hes entered up mate.

Then if for any reason he don't run at all this season, only half the damage

Ah the return of the bino fan club,warm beer,sound of leather on willow and the bino fan boys doing their thing............let it go men let it go,yesterdays horse very good on its day but those days are long gone Im afraid.

More than just being mentioned bud, JP seemed very positive about him. Think the plan was always to get one prep run and then go to Cheltenham with a fresher horse than previous years. He's had a nice break since the Champion Hurdle.

Can't see him winning but he landed my ew w/o HF last season. I think he's big e/w value again this.

AP has ridden Binocular for his last 18 races.

If he decides to ride Darlan, it makes sense for a different jockey to ride Binocular in his prep run, rather than having a brand new one in the Chmapion Hurdle.

Even though one is 4/1 and the other is 33/1, I think it will be a tough decision for AP.

Can't get any of the 33s available Binoc' and stans are only 20s on the shops