Captain Conan

Henderson has said on record that last season was a waste of time as he was never going to do anything over hurdles; could well develop into Hendersons main Arkle horse if Simonsig does stay hurdling?

Looks more a Jewson horse as I think he definitely wants more than the minimum trip.

I'm looking forward to seeing this one over fences. The horse is a giant. He looks a little clumsy, but if he learns to jump fences with rhythm he could be a monster. He also has a Tidal Bay like crazy glint in his eye...

im takin a chance on him for the Arkle...strong run 2m at chelters could be right up his street and with right trainer...good luck all with these dangerous ante posts!!!

Luckily I got caught up in the hype when he won his first race in the uk despite drifting like they had announce over the tanoy he wasn't off.

His form in France was good he was being touted as something special but when he went to Ireland he ran so flat and looked so ordinary I was gobsmacked.

He didn't fair much better at Kelso when outgunned by Tap Night who got well beaten at Aintree in his next outing.

He ran a half decent race when 2nd to Darlan but that looked more like a case of something had to finish second more than it justified a 147 rating from the BHA.

He's big ok but I think he's a big oaf who won't even run in the Arkle.
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Even if you agree with the 147 he has a huge mountain to climb with the likes of Overturn who ran to a 166 in the Champion Hurdle.

Sintonian may be having a laugh but Captain Conan look more likely to follow in Dad Max's footsteps than he is emulating Sprinter Sacre's win in the race.

Anything this fella did over hurdles was a serious bonus imvho

Carver - fair point but some recent winners hyave had high hurdl;es ratings.

The point is it's not automatic that a good hurdler will be a good chaser. For every Sizing Europe there's a Peddlers Cross. Many people just assume that because a horse was a 160+ hurdler it will be an excellent chaser even though the skills required are quite different. The RSA in particular has been won by quite a few poor hurdlers (though in fairness that seems to have changed in the last 5-7 years).

What a strange pedigree

You are right Duncan, I should have been more specific. IMO, before a horse jumps a fence, it is worth little. Big Bucks should have been the best chaser ever (especially given his size) and Burton Port (who, admittedly is not quite top class) should have been a very moderate handicap chaser (especially given his lack of size). I keep an open mind and just treat hurdles ratings with some caution. Not many, for eg, woudl have believed SS would have beaten out of sight Al ferof or Peddlars based on hurdles form (and i think, their mistakes in their matches notwithstanding, SS is clearly the better chaser). I know not many 100 rated hurdles win G1 races over fences, so it gives an indication, but no more than that for me initially.

certainly agree that the hurdle rating becomes secondary and even irrelevant if a horse shows little gumption or technique for chasing

funnily enough, i thought Sprinter Sacre was one horse you could predict leapfrogging better hurdlers once chasing....in terms of size (scope over a fence), athleticism and free-going nature, he had all the ingredients to be much better over the larger obstacles....an OR of 149 after 4 hurdles runs gave a very solid 'lower limit' to his ability and suggested he could well be high class...you couldnt have been so confident of forecasting that had he been 20lb lower over hurdles...quite excited about seeing him again now after typing that!

not sure about Hinterland, RC...tho he is a strong traveller, which is usually a positive, and the stable seem to have always rated him....actually do like this Captain Conan...he wouldnt be as dashing (for want of a better word!) as Sprinter Sacre but physically he's a proper chasing type, so not hard to envisage him improving a stone on top of his hurdles mark, which would put him in the 160s (tbh brain's a bit full of Flat stuff at mo)

Wat makes u think he will start over hurdles

I don't go this good hurdlers don't automatically make good chaser as the majority that don't make the transition from A to B very often were only good in the minds of those who cam up with the phrase.

There are more that were pretty decent that make the grade than there are not.

In this years Arkle we had Sprinter Sacre, Cue Card, Al Ferof and Menorah contesting the main novice event.

I'd say they all by the end of the season ran as well over fences as they did hurdles and not much has changed.

Some would argue Al Ferof was disappointing but he for me, and I got sick of saying it last season, he was grossly overrated.

When he won the Suprme it stood out lie a sore thumb that the best horse in the race was Sprinter Sacre and only immaturity beat him.

In general most good hurdlers if not flat bred make decent chaser.

You get Champion Hurdle placed horses turning to fencing but why? Most likely because they weren't really that good to start with and they soon find it's no easier trying to beat a top notch 2 mile chaser than it is to beat a top notch Champion Hurdler. The big difference they are going to come under the same sort of pressure, they are more likely to make costly mistakes over fences than hurdles and their form goes to pot like Crack Away Jack. Peddlars Cross is a classic example of this. He ran on to finish second to Hurricane Fly and automatically he was going to be a great chaser. However on closer inspection apart from the fact he's a bit one paced  his form isn't great or even close to it. He should've gone after Big Bucks as he is all stamina and very little speed. His best win came in the Neptune but against what? Reve De Sivola a 3 mile chaser who hasn't won a thing since beating some thing of Wullie Mullins''s who disappeared into oblivion.

Not saying Peddlers Cross is a good horse only a madman would say that but anyone who read my post last year know I said Sprinter Sacre was in a different league to him and all his Champion Hurdle second did was proved he lacked a turn of foot.

The real stars have no problem going from one to another. If you look back at the Champion Hurdle winners apart from Bula Night Nurse Dawn Run and Sir Ken how many can you find that went chasing? Those I mention were all top class hurdlers and eventually chasers you could add to that list the unlucky CH loser Sizing Europe, but almost every other Champion Hurdle winner never saw a fence.

The last place anyone should look for an Arkle winner is the Champion Hurdle. Most that have won the Arkle or the QMCC were good hurdler waiting to go fencing like , Sprinter Sacre, Moscow Flyer and Azertyuiop  who never disappointed as they had so much class the writing was on the wall before they'd even jumped a fence in public.

Funny thing is last years CH 2nd hails from the same stable as PC but with one big difference. Overturn is such an intellegent leper he'll take to fences like a duck to water and front runner or no front runner he's the one horse they'll all have to beat in the Arkle.

Ya can shoot me if I'm wrong

Mad Max had a similar build/size to CC.

I know he won the Tolworth, but I think he might not be quick enough over 2 miles at the highest level.  I'd be much more interested in Captain Conan over the Jewson trip

most promising maybe,but not best chaser,at least not until hes actually jumped a fence.

me too,dont fancy him as a top 2m nov chaser at all in fact.

Simonsig on the other hand could be,but until we see him jump,we dont know.

normally anything that could win a tolworth would be on my agenda but i think he outstayed colour squadron,combined with that one throwing it away...
just think he could be done for toe by a speedier type

normally anything that could win a tolworth would be on my agenda but i think he outstayed colour squadron,combined with that one throwing it away...
just think he could be done for toe by a speedier type