Captain Conan

normally anything that could win a tolworth would be on my agenda but i think he outstayed colour squadron,combined with that one throwing it away...
just think he could be done for toe by a speedier type

normally anything that could win a tolworth would be on my agenda but i think he outstayed colour squadron,combined with that one throwing it away...
just think he could be done for toe by a speedier type

normally anything that could win a tolworth would be on my agenda but i think he outstayed colour squadron,combined with that one throwing it away...
just think he could be done for toe by a speedier type

you can say that again

gremlins!

I'd be surprises if CC doesn't end up in the Jewson with simonsig in the Arkle.

*surprised

stront.....i think it will be the other way around as Simonsig already has festival form over that distance. Remember the jockey pursuaded trainer to go over the longer distance

Simonsig is a much classier animal and will be aimed at the Arkle. It was only in September that there was a possibility that he would stay over hurdles and be trained for the CH.

Out of the two if one was being stepped up in trip I'd expect it to be Captain Conan

Captain Conan ran 4 races last year, 2 at 2 mile and 2 at 2m2f... Both his best races were at 2m where as simonsig ran 5 races in which 1 was at 2m and the other 4 at further... So y would Henderson suddenly campaign the 2 at difference distances now they are chasing?? And now he has entered cc over the arkle c/d I don't see y he would step him up another half a mile... I personally know that simonsig wasn't the best jump of his ptp over 3m at a slow pace so I see know reason why he would be transformed to be able to jump at 2m over championship pace... Hendo a gd trainer but he's not a genius... Won't be surprised if he en up like peddles cross and goes back to hurdles

A bit selective on Peddler's Cross, Rondetto. Rite of Passage in third and Finian's Rainbow in fifth don't make Peddler's Neptune too bad a race, neither do his efforts the following season imply he was short of speed at all. McCain was constantly saying how he was amazed by the speed he showed at home, and his Champion Hurdle runner up effort showed he was far from short of speed, narrowly beaten by a hurdler who has more foot that any other we've seen for a long time. He clearly lost his way last season - maybe for good - but, up to the time he was thrashed by Sprinter at Kempton, there were very few saying he wouldn't make a chaser. You may have been one, and credit to you if you were flagging this up early, but I can't see anything in his form up to that time which showed he was either one paced or short of top class.

if he wins sunday,surely arkle bound

Hendo rarely runs his Arkle fancy at Cheltenham before the Festival.

After Captain Conan won the Tolworth, Hendo said somewthing along the lines of - 'He'll go chasing next season and I expect him to get further. He won over 2 and quarter miles in a bog at Auteil'.

i think the fact he stays further is a bonus and he deffo has speed

anyone know for sure if he runs at the Open meeting?

I mean, looking at the race I really doubt Hendo will start him there...

what's the verdict?

According to stable tour in RP runs on Sunday, on home work think he is a true two miler and that they have big hopes for him this year.

in all fairness judo I don't think there to bothered...they did start the animal in the g1 tolworth on his first start last season

Tolwoth has proved to be a pretty poor g1 though imo.Probably thw worse g1 out there.

Needs to improve for fences a lot for me to get interested.

Worst G1 - what a great idea for a thread! Would have to be the Finale Hurdle at Chepstow for me, or possibly the Henry VIII?

Worth noting Capt Conan had run several times in France before he came over so they didn't throw him into the Tolworth for his debut.

As for distance, I simply cannot see a horse of the perceived class of Simonsig being aimed at any race apart from the Arkle. They think he might be another Sprinter Sacre. If so, Captain Conan is either going to run in the Jewson, or run in the Arkle against his highly-fancied stablemate. Of course if Simonsig bombs over fences and Capt Conan is the star that will change things.

to be fair he does look the sort that will improve for jumping a fence

trainers been saying that as well.

But looking at Overturn the other day and what he brings to the table plus the vibes around Simonsig,it says to me hes certainly gonna have to improve for them,and reach a pretty high level.

yeah for sure you would put him behind those two but that's not hard as they both achieved significantly higher form over hurdles

Conan looks the type who we won't see the best of til his second and 3rd seasons over fences

He's a huge horse. He also has a glint in his eye (think Tidal Bay) - it wouldn't be in the least surprised if he ends up with a Timeform squiggle.

certainly going to be interesting to see what they do and how he performs

any ideas about going preference?

As I said above, this horse reminds me a touch of Jack The Giant, and not just in appearance (though the latter, from memory, was a bit darker).

At this stage his evidence is a touch mixed IMO. A very promising start when lucky at Sandown (first run, I think, for months), but solid form, he subsequently did not live up to hurdling expectations, before running well at Aintree in a race that has thrown up lots of weird results down the yrs. It is hard to argue that all that form is wildly scintillating and as nice as he is he may lack a gear or be a bit soft. 

Now none of us know what will happen over fences, but Jack the Giant was no great hurdler (a good handicapper certainly) yet his chase form was solid, miles ahead of his hurdles form and he looked likely to be a genuine G1 chaser.

It might be that Captain Conan's hurdles form is short of top class (though signifiantly better than Jack's hurdle form on less evidence, certainly) meaning he is short of top class, and he may be too over fences, but i would not be at all surprised if he stepped up and left it some way behind. The evidence does not at this stage indicate a true superstar in the making, and whilst jumping will be the making or breaking of him, his profile suggets to me that he could go a long way.

can't ask more than that on debut

think he looked more of a stayer than a speed chaser to me. softish ground and was in his comfort zone all the way round. quicker ground in march theyll be going a lot quicker and potentialy bigger field. i really like the horse but i dont think ill be loosing any sleep with my 7/1 simonsig bet.

Impressive performance, think the horse might be suited by further though.

agree

2 and a half miles shirley

Henderson keeps saying 2 miles. Simonsig may run at Newbury apparently. The distance would be 2 m 4

If Captain Conan is Hendo's main Arkle hope, I'll be surprised for 2 reasons. Firstly, his Arkle horse is rarely seen over fences at Cheltenham before March. Secondly, by taking out SS and Darlan today, he was looking after 2 of his stable stars. Why was CC running then.....other than the fact that he had won in a bog at Auteil over 2 and a quarter before he arrived in England? He won't get this ground over 2 miles at Cheltenham  in March and imo, will be taken off his feet.

MM. henderson said that he will start him off over 2m. maybe start him over 2 1/2m just to give him more time at his fences first time out then bring him down. but he is defo going down arkle route.

I know I think he's going to go for the Arkle I just think its worth noting that's all.

duly noted MM. lack of novice chases over 2m my also be a reason for starting over 2 1/2. with oscars well going on his ear today aswell the arkle could be wittled down to a few in the coming months.

thought that was very impressive first timeout,also bg said better on better ground...thought he had plenty left and jumped like an old hand which was most important thing for me....will follow wherever he goes...hope its arkle

If Captain Conan is Hendo's main Arkle hope, I'll be surprised for 2 reasons. Firstly, his Arkle horse is rarely seen over fences at Cheltenham before March. Secondly, by taking out SS and Darlan today, he was looking after 2 of his stable stars. Why was CC running then.....other than the fact that he had won in a bog at Auteil over 2 and a quarter before he arrived in England? He won't get this ground over 2 miles at Cheltenham  in March and imo, will be taken off his feet.

WELL ITS SIMONSIG SURELY?

I wouldn't be surprised if simonsig ended up in te champion hurdle, it would be typical from the stable wouldn't it.

Yeah but Henderson has also said that Simonsig is a 'couple of weeks behind'. Can this be translated as not learnt to jump properly? Didn't exactly treat hurdles with the utmost respect

I've never quite understood the twisted logic which says that a horse who had little respect for his hurdles somehow naturally is going to jump fences miles better....it's always implied that the negative in the hurdles performances is actually a good sign for fences

ROOBUCK. were did u hear that simonsig is "a couple of weeks behind"?

The quote on Sportinglife yesterday was:

Henderson said: "Simonsig is a little bit behind.
"He had a splint which annoyed him for a couple of days. He won't run next weekend, but he might go to Newbury."

No 2m novice chase at Newbury so would be the 2m4f one which interestingly he won with RSA bound Bobs Worth last year, but he only just touched off subsequent Arkle 2nd Cue Card, so is clearly a good intermediate starting point for horses with the intention of going 2m or 3m in March.

thanks ROGER. doesnt worry me that he is starting over 2 1/2m.

It shouldn't worry you either - interestingly, 5 of the last 6 Arkle winners won a novice chase over 2m4f or 2m5f before winning the Arkle.

Sprinter Sacre only went over 2m1f maximum, but all the previous 5 winners - Captain Chris, Sizing Europe, Foprpadydeplasterer, Tiday Bay and My Way De Solzen had won a chase over 2m4f+ prior to taking the Arkle.

good point ROGER. i just want to see him jump well and win hard on the steel. is that too much to ask for? lol.

If simonsig doesn't jump a fence before Xmas he stays hurdling... He wasn't the best of jumpers in ptp and his old trainer sai to keep him hurdling...his ptp jockey said he won't handle 2m championship pace at fences... His price is ridiculous as sprinter sacre won a chase and was still 6/1

SS had better opposition though,and PCross was highly touted at this stage last season.

Not saying Simon is not too short,he is imo.

Taken the view that CC is going to be aimed at Arkle and played small at 10s.

Don't think he'll be inconvenienced by better ground and I cannot have him behind Simonsig in the betting who has yet to jump a fence in public. Of course he had a real engine over hurdles, but he never treated them with respect and if does give the fences more, he may as a result be more ponderous and nullify his speed.

I accept plenty on here won't agree, so be it

Overturn is available at 9's,would have thought he would be the better bet myself.
Will definitely be aimed at the race and has much the best Hurdle form and has proved he can jump fences well.

Guess thats one who dont agree roo.


Good luck though mate,hope he lines up for you.

Not surprised, knew you liked Overturn

Well i liked his performance the other day for sure.

Best odds 8's now,apparently oddschecker were wrong!!
PP,C0ral,and WH were all advertising 9,still are,but they say 8 when i phoned.

its the new oddschecker - you need to change the display to fraction

ah,i see now.

Not even half an hour and my bet is looking better

Buddeliea, I was also very taken with Overturn's Sandown win, but he will be 9 come March which would make him the oldest Arkle winner for 25 years. Even if you take the view that not many 9 year olds have tried, that in itself could be a big hint.

Also a Flat bred, and whilst two of these have done it in the last decade (Well Chief and Contraband) it is fairly unusual and a win against the odds.

Couple those two negatives together and he surely can't win come March. Can he?

I don't think anything woud surprise me where Overturn is concerned. Seems toget better the older he gets.

9's fine,i dare say a fair few 9 yr olds would have won it if they had gone chasing as late as this one.
Moscow Flyer and Sizing Europe spring to mind.
Main thing for me is transferring top hurdle form to chases,and the way he jumped from the front at quiet a difficult place to start chasing suggests he can, and to me bodes well for his chances.
Should be fav at this stage imo

Roger, thats where stats can sometimes be misleading IMO. Without checking, I'd be pretty confident there hasnt been a single horse of Overturns quality that have started out as a novice at 9. Or many flat breds as tough and game as him in the NH arena.

I think he is more than capable of making a mockery of these stats, and they are largely irrelevant where he is concerned. I agree with Budd the he should be fav at this stage.

I'm on Hinterland, Captain Conan and Third Intention antepost for the Arkle. I'd be suprised if any are in the first 3

i really enjoyed that run from the front....serious jumper with serious engine...think chelters will suit better again and on better ground.....surely arkle bound  ,surely.... please nicky ,now my fav horse and upto my eyeballs in him for arkle !!!!

Gr8 jumper - think it may get picked off over 2m at cheltenham - place claims at the very worst

was impressed with captain Conan however was Overturn more impressive over the same fences... Does anybody know how the times compared? if these 2 get to the arkle should be a cracking race

Throw in Simonsig, Arvika Ligeonniere, Oscars Well and a couple of other latecomers to the novice chase ranks and you a a very nice looking race this year.

Doubt Captain Conan will lead in the Arkle, Overturn will front run surely

..or AL if Ruby's ride on Sunday was anything to go by.

Looks like the Henderson yard have been steadily investing on him for the Jewson the past few days, Simonsigs schooling must have gone well

yes worrying times for conan fans....I'm old school and think he should go the arkle route from what i've seen so far but looks like they are swaying towards the longer race...i'd say they are putting the early disclaimer out there but if simonsig fails to impress over fences he is nailed on to go the arkle route imo

Bobs Worth 2011 and Simonsig last year,along with many others from this yard.I`ts a guess,get used to it.He just said Captain Conan,typical Arkle horse.Take the 9/2 Billy`s for all of the races,if you like this horse

Ok so I have invested in CC for the Arkle, but should be the race he goes for. So what if the stable want to point Simonsig in that direction, he should go too.

At this stage I would much prefer Dynaste in the Jewson. And if I was an owner I'd much prefer to run in the Arkle if I had a genuine contender rather than a lower grade race simply to benefit the stable

CAPTAIN CONAN is a very smart novice chaser. He impressed me with his performance winning the Grade 1 Henry VIII Novices' Chase over two miles. It’s hard work to do it from the front around Sandown but he made it look easy. He’s got plenty of pace for two but he’ll get further alright so there are plenty of options for him.


Barry G

Owners preogative to insist which race a horse goes for. If Simonsig proves different gravy though they will have to go Jewson if they want Geraghty to ride.

roobuck

Ok so I have invested in CC for the Arkle, but should be the race he goes for. So what if the stable want to point Simonsig in that direction, he should go too.

At this stage I would much prefer Dynaste in the Jewson. And if I was an owner I'd much prefer to run in the Arkle if I had a genuine contender rather than a lower grade race simply to benefit the stable

Roo, I feel sorry for you mate. I saw this same scenario last year with SDC & Mullins. Pipe is another one for this (Dynaste). Unfortunately we have to expect this with the so called 'big yards' every Chelts. People are going to come on & talk about owners paying fees & only they should be told plans etc. I have no problem with this but these trainers know even before a horse has run which Chelt race they are aiming for. Maybe a few of them can follow PFN;s example & be a bit more open & honest?. Best of lucks with your bets.

No need to feel sorry for me, placed my bet with my eyes very wide open. The stable know on the comparative ability of the two horses and if Simonsig can jump he seems to be their number 1.

Not had a bet on Dynaste nor will I, or any horse for the Jewson, until running plans are a little clearer.

You never know roobuck. CC has done it on the track. Simonsig has yet to do it.

No I agree ff, reason I struck the bet. It would be a little bizarre imo if he went for Jewson if was 2nd fav for Arkle but always knew it was a possibilty

I concur with Roger re Overturn. He's been so consistent for a number of years now, all at a high level, I just wonder if it is asking the horse for too much to come and win an Arkle. I think it probably is. He'll want the going no worse than Good to Soft either i'd say and they always water the ground for the first day to make sure it is at least that.

roo - I am with you on CC with an AP bet at a decent price. Knew the risk when placing the bet but really hoping they stick with Arkle plans. JP doesnt have much for the Arkle so if owner wants Arkle I reckon they could get AP up. The its game on. Either way I will follow CC if he goes Jewson route.

Well he stays 2m4f well barry reckons he needs plenty of getting ready and only had the indoor school recently. Obviously jumped well and to my eyes always just in the wrong place in the race in terms of jumping ie having a clear view etc reckon very good performance as the others no mugs no more than satisfactory but reckon they now know what to do to get him to the Jewson ready to run a great race I am going in again now!

I don't reckon he stayed, he just came home very very slow whilst the others came home very very very very slow, in the jewson against far better horses he'll be well beat...only a view of course.

exactly my view as well duffy, the second was going up and down on the spot after jumping the last well

That was not a good performance what so ever he never seemed to traveling and as said above he just passed a horse the was stopping. Can't see him winning at the festival he might be a bit of a boat.

Certainly not a "boat" but he won't be winning the Jewson.
Time will show he's a 2 miler.

I still think he's in with a reasonable shout if they get better ground

Nothing today suggested he is a grade 1 2 miler he never travelled, I will concede that every horse is entitled to an off day though.

Today proved that he is a battler, and I thought he stayed very well.

This time last year Bobs Worth and Finians were both turned over by inferior rivals (Invictus and Somersby), and both went on to win at the Festival.

All roads lead to one race at the Festival.  I think there is still some untapped potential in him, whereas imo, only Aupcharlie behind him in the betting looks like they could be something.  I don't really rate anything in the betting below these two.

I wouldn't take today's form literally at all, and this is coming from someone who said at the start of this thread that I doubted his ability as a Grade 1 horse.  He was nowhere near fully tuned up today.

that was a bad performance and its running style is not very good, seems so slow and lucky today,
horse I wouldn't follow again ,did not make a favourable impression.

I hope tap night runs in the jewsons

Very unimpressive and he was favourite for the Jewson. That market is all over the place. Happy with 33/1 Argocat. With the exception of Simonsig and Dynaste the novice chases are looking like three very ordinary renewals.

flyingbolt     02 Feb 13 17:37 
Certainly not a "boat" but he won't be winning the Jewson.
Time will show he's a 2 miler.


Agree 100% with this, plenty will say he stayed today i strongly disagree, race was set up for him and he should nt have won (TI clearly dogged it) They are obv tryin to make him into something he is nt to avoid Simonsig

Game of opinions tho so we shall see

W£ill be seen to best effect wen bowling along in front over 2m imvho

To me he looked sluggish from the get go and seemed to be carrying an awful lot of condition. I don't see how racing over a shorter trip would of helped him travel and jump better today. Still sets the Jewson standard on his early season form and the race looks a poor renewal at this stage.

Agree with every word of that Barnsey.

I think we all agree that he aint no superstar, but he does set the benchmark so far, and is still rightly fav.

The race is lacking any depth, so he is there by default.

As I said, Finians and Bobs were turned over at short odds at this time last year, and I think there is a good chunk of improvement to come from CC between now and March imo.

To me, he screams stayer, as he looked beat miles from home. True that TI does duck a battle, but its not like CC was cruising and then emptied turning for home.

Surely Hendo should be grateful he COULD get the 1-2 in the Arkle rather than forcing the issue and getting F all in the Jewson?!

How did he not stay? The only time during the whole race he looked like winning was at the line. He wasn't himself today but it had nothing to do with the trip. If anything it was the ground and a lack of fitness he just never traveled today. I think horses can have off days they are not machines and if having an off day is winning a G1 it's certainly not the end of the world.

Well we have to take their word when they say..... he might have been lacking fitness,big horse that takes some work etc etc.
Not sure im convinced of that myself.But those that have backed him will cling to that.
What i saw was a horse that beat Third Intention comfortably over 2m twice,and then seriously struggle to beat that horse over 2m4.
Yes,its all about March,but that would have been the case in his last 2 runs as well when he was impressive.
Cant blame the ground really,not much difference to his wins,maybe a tad softer,but against a horse he beats easily at 2m and a complete slow boat in Houblon,well honestly, that yesterday should have been a rout if this horse is to win at the festival.
Would not back him with stolen after watching that.

Best lay bet of the festival for me!!!

The form his firs three chases doesn't scream out festival winner to me, yesterdays race was a grade 1 in name only. I think trainers are constantly talking up there horses and people take what they say as gospel. He's not good enough even to place in an ankle IMO but as stated above the jewson looks a weak affair at present and he possibly may win that.

I agree yesterdays run was disappointing compared to previous two runs this season and based on yesterdays run I would not be placing any money on him at the Festival in the Jewson. BUT whats keeping me interested  in CC is that Corky Browne has consistently picked CC out as something special. So was yesterday disappointing because (1) CC was under cooked and this was just a prep for the main event (2) didnt like the sticky ground (3) didnt like 2m4f (4) Geraghy was being cautious because they were not certain he got 2m4f (5) an accumulation of (1)-(4) ? 

I remember last year a number of the 7Barrows horses got beat in February and then went on to win really well at The Festival. For what it is worth I have a decent AP wager on CC for the Arkle dated July 2012 so guess what I am hoping for !

Missed this live yesterday and just watched a replay. I'd forgive CC that run. He got into the bottom of the last 2 fences, or he would have won more cosily. Can't see him running in the Arkle unless Simonsig misses the gig. They'll want Geraghty up, so Jewson it's likely to be. I just can't take to the horse, don't know why.

He did not stay but it doesn't mean he can't win providing the opposition are practically going backwards....looking at CC performance in isolation and you'd have to be horrified, I couldn't dream of backing him against better horses in the jewson...not in a million years.