Cheltenham Festival
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GRAND CRU GOLD CUP
GRAND CRU GOLD CUP
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just read in Racing Post that Burton Port has just started doing fast work, is expected to run mid-Feb and will have Gold Cup entry.
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whos to say they wont entertain the ryanair for grand cru....
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Rease - good news and thanks for posting that update. Mid-Feb sounds like the Denman or the Irish Hennessey.
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i'm not a stats man either stront.
like you say long run had the 6 year old stat to defy last year. but how many 6 year olds turn up in the gold cup after winning the king george. back to back winners is the stat against him this year. but i am more concerned by his lack of any rhythm in his runs this season like wise with kauto star. no 12 year old has won the gold cup since 1968 but how many are on the back of a faultless victory in the george. and how many 12 year olds could hold a candle to the star i always look to 2nd season chasers as a rule but they seem to be falling by the wayside this year. i hope they run grand crus for added spice but like others i would be concerned over his stamina. but he is worth the chance because if he does stay he is seriously talented. he can always drop back in trip next year not sure where the other dangers lay still hoping quel esprit can throw his hat in the ring, but he needs to show he is up to the grade very soon think there could be some value in this market yet and maybe a big priced winner |
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one other thought on the 12yo Kauto - reading Timmy Murphy's book at the mo' - Nicholls trained See More Business to finish 3rd in Gold Cup at 12 - also saw quote from Nicholls the other day that they train Kauto as if he were 8!
Not too worried about him being 12 especially after what he has achieved at 11 3/4 but think he might get outstayed up the hill like last year. On a different tack, Weird Al was staying on resolutely at end of Betfair and impressive in Charlie Hall - definitely not right last year. I'd rather take a punt on Weird Al or Burton Port than any of the Irish contingent or last year's novices or indeed Synchronised. |
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Just a quick point on the Grands Crus stamina issue.
I agree that it would be an unknown, of course, in the Gold Cup, and the amount of speed he shows is a little concerning. That said, when I am personally weighing up stamina issues with horses I only really take into account their perceived class and whether they can get into a rhythm. He wins on both of those counts, so I am happy to think he has every chance of getting home. If he pulls like a beast he will struggle but that would quite possibly be the case in any race - very few horses that fail to settle can win at the Festival, irrespective of whether they stay further than the race they run in. As a purist (not taking into account the punting angle), 50% of me is desperate to see him go for Gold, and 50% of me is desperate to see him looked after in the weakest novice race at the meeting before stepping into the big leagues next year. It's a really tough decision for connections, no doubt about that, |
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At last some hope (for those of us with RSA antepost bets) that Grands Crus may not contest the GC this year. David Pipe has said that the opposition will decide where Grands Crus goes.
Hinting that some of the others will need to fall by the wayside for him to run in the GC - one might assume then that if both Long Run & Kauto turn up he will possibly be looking elsewhere |
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Also encouraging that he was considering a novice chase in Feb rather than the Argento as the next possible outing.
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Res - the vibe I get is that Pipe really doesn't want to go for the Gold Cup this year but (at least one of) the owners does. A battle of wills then.
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David Pipe says the opposition will decide Grands Crus' Cheltenham Festival target.
The talented grey is favourite for the RSA Chase for staying novices but he also has an intriguing entry in the Betfred Cheltenham Gold Cup. The seven-year-old is unbeaten over fences this season and could tackle established chasers for the first time at Cheltenham at the end of the month. Asked what factor would decide Grands Crus' Festival target, the Pond House handler told the Racing UK Podcast: "The opposition. "Anything can happen to any horse unfortunately and, as we've seen in Cheltenham Festivals, some do fall by the wayside, so we have to keep our options open. "We're looking at running him next in the Argento at the end of the month or a novice chase in February and we'll probably decide next week. He's in good form and all has gone well since Kempton." |
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this is not what i wanna read
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I agree with you strontium.
Keeping everything crossed. This decision will make or break my festival ap book! |
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That quote has renewed my hope. I'm almost tempted to start going in again at 4.9.
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Aint you already heavily leveraged CCM ?
I have to say, this is complete sh1t from Pipey. They wont run in the Gold Cup. |
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Yes I am balls deep Sint. But he never went low enough for me to want to lay any of my stake off. At 4.9, and in light of that quote, he looks a decent price again to me.
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Maybe one year one of these trainers will put their money where their ego is and actually run one of their novices in Championship company. Until that happens i'd be inclined to disbelieve all of it. We have the SAME SH1T every single season and NONE of them line up.
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To be fair to Pipe, I think Strontium has hit the nail on the head. The owner was quoted as saying he'd rather finish 3rd in a GC than win the RSA. Even if Pipe thinks (as I do) that is complete madness, he's in a difficult place if the owner puts his foot down.
It must be a nightmare having owners who think they know better than the trainer they have employed imo. |
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I would be careful on that Catch me,if Last Instalment runs hes a massive threat imo.
Think i would be tempted to have a cover on him mate,if i were in your shoes. |
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Took the 5.6 yesterday for the RSA after reading Pipe's comments.
Its very risky, but too big a price to turn down imo. Even before I put the bet on I'd rather have seen him in the RSA, one less opponent for Kauto and a better chance of Captain Chris being placed. |
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Into 4.5 already wellchief. Pleasing.... Very pleasing
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ccmee happened last year pandoramas owner wanted him to run ,trainer noel meade didnt want to risk him on fastish ground , he ran has been on the easy list since .
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Think the opposite is happening here though Foyles. Owner wants the GC and the trainer is making him see sense. At least I hope he is!
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slightly different here aswell as Pando was not a novice and Meade want to run IF the going was decent.
I cant imagine GC will run in the GC for one second. Nothing to worry about imo. |
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Top prices for the Argento
Grands crus 5/2 Diamond Harry 11/2 Time for Rupert 11/2 Captain Chris 6/1 9/1 bar I'm surprised TFR and DH are ahead of CC in the betting. CC seems an ew bet to nothing for me at 6's |
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midnight chase a belting price imo
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6's didn't last long on Captain Chris
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Fascinating race with not much to split the prinicipals (big doubts about track/experience/distance for all of them for me). Midnight Chase's 5th in the Gold Cup might be the best piece of stayers form on show but he's looked below that this season. I can understand the Tidal Bay backers running without a penalty on a track he loves. Carruthers looks each way value if he's an intended runner. Be great if they all stand their ground, which I hope they will because they all have somethign to prove and time is running out.
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Stront, I don't think Midnight Chase's run at Wetherby was bad at all. He was giving the 2 who beat him over 2 stone and the winner has come out and won the Peter Marsh off a higher mark last week. Add the fact that it was soft and it is well documented he prefers better going as well. Dependent on ground he has the proven form and is the yardstick. However, if he wins it suggests they will all probably fall short of the required ability to win a Gold Cup this year.
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Fair point Shock, I'd overlooked that. He might also be several lbs better at Chelteham. I think he represents a bit of value for Saturday and didn't mean to suggest otherwise (I was highlighting his Gold Cup form as a positive for Sat).
I'm sure your final comment is correct! |
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orginal post is ridiculous, how are they holes in the top 2? they streets ahead of the rest of the field, aslong as they dont fall or lose a leg nothing will get withing 15 l of them. fact. grand crus running in the gold cup has no bearing on the race at all, kauto and long run are miles clear
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Lump on the forecast Denman!!!!!!
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ill be lumping on long run to be fair, although i think kauto will finish second!
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shcokster didnt realise denman was running?
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I've backed TFR on the basis he jumps great, will get the trip and loves Cheltenham. For me, this IS his Gold Cup. I think the trainer knows deep down he is not good enough for the big one so Saturday he should be primed imo.
On hurdles form both TFR and GC finished 2nd to Big Bucks, but BB absolutley cantered over TFR where as GC gave him a race, so there is no doubt who the better horse is imo. I am just not a fan of Novices running out of Noivce company and GC has also shown a fair bit of speed so not sure he really wants 3m1f around a demanding track just yet tbh. A cracking race in prospect though. |
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I was studying the Argento and frankly I will surprised if the winner is not one of Grands Crus, Captain Chris or Tiday Bay. And of those I strongly favour Grands Crus but 2/1 is not too tempting!
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David Pipe has yet to decide whether Grands Crus runs in the Argento Chase at Cheltenham on Saturday.
The ante-post favourite will lay down a serious marker for the Betfred Gold Cup at Cheltenham if he can consolidate upon the fast gains he has already made over fences. Pipe, however, remains guarded about whether intends to step his unbeaten novice chaser up against seasoned stars at the weekend. He said: "It does look a hotter race than last year, and obviously there'll be a true-run gallop. "I've got to speak to his owners, probably on Wednesday night or Thursday, and if he does run, Tom Scudamore will school him in the morning. "He was a little bit keen at Kempton, but he's been really switched off so far this season. "He's still switched off at the present moment but it doesn't take much to wind him up." Still looks like there's plenty of hope for us RSA backers  |
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may be wrong.
However - If Pipe is not sure wether to run in Agento - I would say he is 70/30 not to run in gold cup. Defo if doesn't go on saturday then its the RSA. Yep still talking through my wallett!!! |
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If you're apprehensive about taking on Time for Rupert, Captain Chris, Diamond Harry and Midnight Chase you must be sh!tting yourself about taking on Kauto and Long Run!!!
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just looked grans crus 36 lay in argento ? ...........whats going on .
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