Cheltenham Festival
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Silviniaco Conti
Silviniaco Conti
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Replies: 208
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what did you expect Brooksie,he is a proven stayer,the others had proven speed over 2m.Race went exactly more or less as i thought it would.
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Still gonna go for Champion Hurdle...
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disagree in March you'll get a real run champion hurdle.
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indeed,which will suit Menorah as much as any other.
I am sure SC has improvement but at the end of the day SC just dont look to me that he has enough pace to win a CH. |
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Not true Stake & Chips are you trying to lay off by any chance? Very naughty.
Trainer is going to discuss with owner then decide where he goes, one run in Feb first, but admits Menorah just went by him in four or five strides. Looking like Supreme if anything listening to comments. |
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supreme? cracking choice if they can pass him off as a Novice
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 Supreme |
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Think he was talking about Cue Card to be fair to him
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Obvious I was talking about your Cue Card post S&C
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Take a 2nd glance at the coral SC goes past the field after about 2 miles like he had just joined the race. SC has pace, but today he had to make his own pace in a clear 2nd all the way around and was just sat there ready to be pounced on by two horses that have been campaigned around 2m. It turned into a tactical farce of a race, as i say if there was true championship pace on today cue card wouldnt of been traveling like he was and menorah wouldnt of been sat where he was to make that move.
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I was talking about SC FFS
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Ok apologies
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No worries
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SC was clearly not good enough as was cue card menorah is a top class horse the faster the pace the better for menorah
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the bula was a good race and would follow the front three in future, imo.
winner must go very close in the champion. |
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As I said, earlier in this post, and as buddleia has stressed, 2 miles is a specialist distance. SC was always unlikely to thrive over that trip at the top level, and so it has proved. A fine horse, not a Champion Hurdler.
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"They are three great horses and on a different day I could see there being a different result - we'll get 4lb at Cheltenham and the Champion Hurdle remains his target - we'll probably look for a Champion Hurdle trial in the New Year."
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Hilarious comment from the trainer is he going to attach a rocket pack to get Silviniaco past Menorah next time?
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..basically he is saying we arent going World Hurdle as we have the best staying hurdler ever in that so he has to go the 2 miler so lets make on we have a chance in that otherwise it looks pointless ... which ultimately it is.
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lol very true eric morris how on earth can he say that menorah thrashed him menorah would beat him on 3 legs
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should wait for the hurdle at aintree,thats his game.
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Agree Budd...2m 4f...flat track...perfect trip.
No need to risk going for CH with such an exciting chasing prospect for following year. |
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Agree budd
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why would he ruin a horse in the world hurdle that hasn't even fully grown yet.He was never going to run him in the world hurdle it was either the champion or aintree. Yesterday the race was ran in Menorah's favour. With 4lbs less to conceed and real pace not some tit running dog fractions from the front. Im quite confident he'll reverse the placing and then some. My opinion obviously :)
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If he goes for the CH, the faster early pace likely in that race would possibly be a help to SC. We also shouldn't discount the possibility that the race yesterday came too soon for SC after posting a good time in his previous race, though equally the same point could be offered about Cue Card and Menorah,
The problem for SC, imo, is that Binocular won the race last March with what was more than just a staying-on performance off a fairly fast pace. Binocular travelled better than the rest and withstood the demands of the quick early pace brilliantly, but then he also was able to show a turn of foot at the end to put the race to bed, albeit on his favoured good ground. Still early days, but Menorah looks as it he might be capable of doing something similar (assuming he can cope with the fast early pace of the CH as well as Binocular did last time). My fear with SC is that he will either use up too much energy staying with the faster pace in the CH or else he will get run out of it in the closing stages, as he did yesterday, if speedy two mile specialists like Binocular and Menorah turn up in top form. SC ran well enough yesterday and I don't think it would be a forlorn hope entering him in the CH, particularly if the ground rides a bit more dead than it did last year to suit his staying qualities. But unless he ran flat yesterday on the back of his superb run at Ascot, I am not sure he has quite enough in the locker to beat the best in what is starting to look a very strong two mile division this year. |
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Menorah beat Any Given Day 6 lengths (very tired) conceeding 11lbs
Silviniaco Conti beat Karabak 7 lengths (easily could of been much more) conceeding 4lbs Karabak beat Any Given Day 1 3/4 lengths (Idled on run in) level weights Menorah beat Silviniaco Conti 4 1/2 lengths (Menorah quickened to last pushed out on rail) giving 4lbs Alan King stated he didn't think Karabak improved anymore than he had ran at Ascot so this gives the form a very solid look. Any Given Day may of improved for the extra few furlongs. So on term of what they have achieved this year, I would put Silviniaco Conti clear even though he was beat yesterday, mainly because I think the race yesterday was muddled Taking into account all of the variables trip, course, how race was run, and looking at these two animals in terms of abilty and there improvment i can only see one winner. Eric you mention SC is a stayer even though from what iv seen at Ascot he went past them like they wasn't there, in France he quickened nicely after the last on his first outing then same again on his last outing in France. He also didn't have much trouble putting a distance between horses at bangor on his first start over the same trip as yesterday. Don't get me wrong he has bags of stamina but in a real run champion hurdle thats exactly what you need. |
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aka interesting thoughts, do you think it might be a year to soon for SC? Gutted he aint a novice at this early age i think a supreme is what he needs, still think he's good enough though.
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Brooksielad, I think I probably fall a bit between the two main views that are being expressed on here about SC. I was very impressed by certain aspects of Menorah's performance yesterday, but the time of the race wasn't good enough to make it a really informative trial as far as the CH is concerned.
Given that he was conceding weight and running so soon after putting up a career best performance at Ascot, SC ran well enough yesterday and I can understand why the trainer thinks it still worthwhile to aim the horse at the CH in March. But I think it is very competitive in the 2 mile hurdling division at the top at the moment, and I haven't seen quite enough yet from SC to think he has more in his armoury over 2 miles than Binocular and Menorah (and possibly Peddlers Cross). In a faster run race and/or if they make more use of SC, he could still go to the CH somewhat underestimated (rather as Katchit was when winning in 2008). Even so, my feeling at this stage is that there may be a few less levers to pull with SC over 2 miles than is the case with Menorah (who is looking particularly versatile) and Binocular who sets a very high standard, imo, on the back of what he did in the CH last time. If we have a renewal that becomes particularly stamina sapping, PC would also likely be another tough nut to crack in the race. There may be more to come with SC as he strengthens further, but at this stage he is already looking mentally mature and very professional, so that perhaps limits some of the scope for him showing further improvement as he moves away from novice status. |
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Brooksielad - according to my calculations, Silviniaco Conti does not come out on top in theory.
I think he should target the Champion Hurdle as he only needs to improve a few pounds to be in the shake-up. It seems to have been overlooked that Silviniaco Conti is only a 4yo and furthermore, he's been shouldering penalties against proven opposition. I think the distance at Cheltenham in March will prove ideal. |
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2m 4f will be Silviniaco Conti's trip there was a big clue at Ascot.
You cant fit a square peg into a round hole but as the Championship race is over 2m and the trainer has never won the race he will send him there. If he had the horses interests at heart he would be missing the Festival and going to Aintree. |
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Went to chelters yesterday
Horse has the stamp of a hoss who needs at least 2.5 miles Also noted the owner Sponsor of pn stable Perhaps he find a nice race as reward for helping Paul |
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You went to cheltenham and because you was there he needs 2 miles and 5/8 of a miles? Ok cheers
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2.5 my bad
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Well Nicholls has said his breeding is for 2.5 miles.
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So Nicholls believes SC deserves his place in the Champion, Tizzard describes Cue Card today as a 'precious talent' and Menorah is now favourite for the big race. If all three are that good, how do we account for the proximity of Clerk's Choice who has finished within 4 lengths of SC and CC, albeit in receipt of 4lbs from SC.
Arguably, Clerk's Choice was even less suited to the pace than SC; he travelled as well as anything throughout and is the only one of them with bullet-proof form off an end to end gallop (and that includes Menorah). The ground was also against him as he wants it fast. If the ground came up in March as it did this year (good), and a scorching gallop looked likely, I'd be in no doubt where the value lies among the first four from yesterday! |
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Good luck with that project based on that logic .. you can always make a case due to pace etc for a horse who patently needs further but in reality you are kidding yourself imo.
Also you cannot take one horse from a race to make a case to suit your argument when conditions/trip/going on the day may help a horse run to its optimum ... fatal trap to fall into but just about everyone on here does it. |
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I know it's hard to know exactly what Menorah beat. SC is better over further, and Cue Card is a 4yo novice, who was having only his 5th race of his career.
Menorah still has no form with anything other than last seasons novices (from Greatwood) and a few inexperienced runners in the Bula. Favourite for March, no thanks. Similarly with Peddlers Cross, if Binocular wasn't fully fit and I believe he wasn't a 1l victory over Starluck does not warrent 6/1 quotes. Neither of these horses can be backed at their current prices. Plenty of other horses yet to stake their claims |
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The only reason Clerk's Choice finished so close is because of the slow pace.
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how can people come on here and knock menorahs form he absolutely murdered SC who had the run of the race and the supposed great cue card and neither can have any excuses i cant seem to get it into peoples heads the faster they go the more menorah wins by .if you actually watch the race again its an unbelivable performance the turn of speed he showed was incredible he went past the pair of them in 3 strides and as soon as he gets to the front his ears are pricked and hes doing nothing.it was a brillant win and he deserves to be the favourite
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i hope pumpkin head does run SC hopefully he can do a proper job this time and set a stronger pace and actually give menorah a lead to the last hurdle which he was meant to do yesterday
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