Bloodstock & Breeding
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Born to Sea
Born to Sea
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Am getting a bit confused by this horse now. I thought 6-8 furlongs would be his maximum and he runs a good second in bottomless ground in Irish Derby.
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My thinking is Oxx thought he was a miler when in fact he is a Derby Horse all along.
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They sort if made excuses for Camelot after the race blaming the ground for him not winning further but I too thought BTS ran really well. We will see. He must be able to win a group over 10-12F dont you think?
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Yes Irish champion stakes,I would imagine especially with Camelot likely to go to Doncaster and Frankel to York.
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Has Oxx messed up with this horse?
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It looks like it Neil d.It was very unlike Oxx to run him so quickly after Ascot especially in those conditions.At the start of the year some had serious doubts about him staying the guineas trip being by a group 1 winning sprinter-invincible spirit,as they were doubts about sea the stars seeing out derby trip by a group 1 miler-Cape cross).
It is yet another tribute to the magnificent arc winning dam -urban sea.The only mare ever to produce two epsom derby winners. I am sure Oxx will give him a rest now and the irish champion looks the ideal race.SYT will be back in oz,Frankel in York,Camelot in Doncaster. |
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When you are old as me dj876 you will remember mares like Windmill Girl dam of both Blakeney and Morston winners at Epsom in 1969 and 1973.
I too think Oxx got it wrong with Born to Sea,to focused on his sire's speed aspect forgetting the stamina laden dam's page(for commercial reasons).And for the record both his top class brothers would of both stayed and won the St Leger.He will surely meet St Nicholas Abbey in the Champion (Irish)he will be a tough horse to pass I'd say. |
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Johnny M you strike me as being a man of sound mind most of the time.
But Urban Sea - the dam of a sprinter? |
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I'd lay what you like on BTS winning the Irish Champion Stakes. I think that was a below par run from Camelot in a field of Grp 2/3 horses. If it wasnt a below par run then I'd be worried if its soft at Donny.
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Yer Ma, if its soft at Donny, he won't run
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Personally it would need to be absolutely bottomless at Doncaster for Camelot not to run.The Triple Crown has been the plan since last year.Do you really think at the last hurdle they will scupper his chance of gaining racing immortality?I myself don't think his performance on the weekend was below par when we consider the fact he hated the ground his sheer class won the race.For me only exceptional horses do that one's like him.
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Doncaster is frequently described as the best ground any where. It's unlikely to end up like the Curragh at the weekend. I don't see circumstances conspiring to keep Camelot away.
Mind you, bottomless and he wins gong away looking like a cup horse, may not help the marketing men! |
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Camelot will be at Doncaster bar injury regardless of the going,unless he sinks in up to his hocks.He should get ideal ground.It will bring back memory's of 1970.
Potentialmillionaire,I owe you an apology for being short with you the other day.Sorry,Its no excuse I know but I was not in the best of moods and BSB post did irritate me and your comment after I took as taking the pi$$.I know you didn't mean it the way I took it.You would think at my age I'd be less touchy,I'm still childish I know. |
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I try to choose my words carefully on here at least Prima.
The fact is though as one is corresponding with folks where you can't see the whites of their eyes it's always going to be a bit bit of a lottery. In person, the people we care about we can address accordingly but like you say if I'm in a foul mood no-one on here is guaranteed to say the right thing! So, I've long ceased being offended by you and I hope you are of like mind!! I think by and large that we all do quite a good job on here of keeping it pleasant. Mind you, there are some exceptions. I remember a certain 'champion' of a Coolmore 1st season sire a while ago. . . Well I wouldn't risk chipping my nailvarnish  on the keyboard to correspond with that one!I trust your 'black dog' has been extinguished. |
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Pot M I'm glad you accept my apology,and yes the Black dog has gone for now,even though my real dog is Yellow.Sometimes people drive me to drink I have a quick temper and that day I had had a very irate and long conversation with one of my key team members(nothing to do with the stud) it didn't go well and I'm well know for going on until they see my point........that person does now I might add!
I think your few lines above sum up this forum precisely I don't set out to upset people but its inevitable at times. I'm pleased you don't get offended by my at times forthright manner. And as for that individual you refer to well lets hope he's been put back in his BOX! Are you underwater like us over there? |
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Admittedly this forum is more sophisticated than the unofficial football club one and less single minded than the runners world one I visit, but I'm always fascinated to see how my elders (?maybe not) and betters find as much time to arse about on the internet as me.
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It's hopeless proxgene isn't it. Still we don't sit infront of the Soaps and I wouldn't know a computer game if it came up and bit me on the arse!
Prima, do you use imported hay? I'm just watching my hay fields get older and flatter. My wise old farmer friend tells me there will be a window in the weather - but I'm just wondering if it'll be worth taking it. Rain? Does it do anything else?  |
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Well tell your old farmer friend to open the window quick and lets have some sunshine for once at least this year.The weather is unbelievable here,if it goes on much longer I'm thinking of growing rice as the fields are like a bloody paddy field!All the yearlings look miserable I have a colt who has not really done as well as I'd hoped he would he needs the sun on his back.........fat chance this year.He's one I bought last year and promptly sunk like a stone just after.He's so far back from the others I didn't manage to get him into the sale I wanted to as he was poor when he was assessed by the sales company,he has picked up now but I think with him he needs to do and with this weather on him all the time its going to be very hard indeed.Yes I do import some hay but as I have a farm as well I do like to make it as well,but as it is only my cattle will be eating the home grown stuff this year.
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Still raining. I can't even get on the lawn let alone get the tractor out.
Funnily enough I bumped in to a well known and liked yearling consignor the other day who too was lamenting the fact that his Doncaster yearligs are about to come in having never had any sunshine. Maybe a later sales date for your tricky yearling Prima will give him the weather he needs. Mind you, may I suggest you consider buying your foals from a different source this year? (mentioning no names ofcourse. . .) |
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I live near Edinburgh and can honestly this is the wettest most miserable me and some farming friends of mine can remember, my NH horses are being summered(ha ha) nr Newcastle and over in the south west of Scotland and I know my trainers are effing sick of bringing them in and back out poor horses dont know if they are coming or going. i know its not the best thing for them but we have had serious thunder and lightening storms and the poor horses have been freaking out!! Drive you to drink!!
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Here too,and it seems were in for more
even a chance of thunder on Friday.What a lovely summer its not!I know what your saying about yearlings having seen not a glimmer of sun this year,everything seems to be suffering without any sunshine even the flowers in the gardens look poor nothings thrived with the exception of the lawns they never seem to stop.That colt who I mentioned above does have a later sales slot,its a pity as he's one who if he had gone the right way would of been a nice prospect.When I got him his coat looked like he'd been housed on the top of Ben Nevis it was the sort you'd expect to see on one of those hairy Yaks!He held onto his coat right up to last month and even now he still has a sort of winter coat!But now thankfully he's doing so I hope by the time he's gets to the sales he will at least show some potential and show some return.I don't really want to be bothered putting him into training. I doubt you would know who bid for him last year as it wasn't who normally bids for us and he wont be sold under our banner this year either.Oh yes and as for buying from a different source  I did ask my man to take a look again this year,I said he had two colts one by a red hot sire the other by a sire that often comes up on here.I see that vendor last year was in wall boxes.I did glimpse the vendor he looked busy is all I'm saying! |
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The weeds keep growing too Prima, so make sure you get out there with your hoe and your kneeling pad!
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They sure do keep growing.Yes its nice I'm told to do a spot of gardening I enjoy sitting outside sipping a glass of Pimms,that's how I enjoy the garden as for the kneeling pad and hoe I'll give that a miss as if I knelt down somehow I doubt I'd ever get up.
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Pimms weather it aint!!!!!!!!!
It better look up a bit for next Thursday and my jolly at Dalham Hall. |
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Well alright then maybe I could sit outside wrapped in a blanket with a hot water bottle sipping a nice hot toddy with this weather that'd be more like it!
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Hang on a minute with a set up like that, the next thing you know, ther'll be wheels on that chair and Slick'll be getting ideas about giving that old chair a hefty old push down the garden steps and moving in a younger model
 Good night! |
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Don't tempt her Pot M..........sometimes I don't think it would take much persuading...giving the chair a push I mean Goodnight and enjoy next weeks 'jolly'.Prima.
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A rather sorry end to a very un-Oxx like career. And another retiree not to add to the list.
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So where do we think he'll end up? Think we can rule Irish National out.
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Personally if I were connections (and loaded like them) I'd be earning some browny points for long term gain by offering it up to the Chinese as part of this new venture. But it'll probably be likes of Ballylinch like PD suggested.
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Good point Yer Ma. I know John Warren's standing a new horse for next year and Whitsbury believe they are close to a deal that will 'surprise everyone', but I don't think he'll be going to either. Personally I think Cheveley should throw their hat in the ring and discard that mud-loving flash in a pan Mayson.
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I thought that the I N S was the most likely option but perhaps there was more to the Tsuis moving from there that i don't know about. I'm only a country bumpkin always last to know so I bow to Johnny Mustang and his always intriguing inside track!
Yer ma if we keep not adding retirees to the list, are we to go another season without credible newcomers at the value end of the market? I can't abide signing up to a stallion I don't have strong confidence in, but part of that confidence usually is bolstered by using 1st season sires that don't have a record to cause them to fall foul of fickle fashion. To be pushed the way of a Mayson or a Born To Sea - just how horrible a prospect is that? Power is going to be knocked of his feet in the rush for sure. But should he be? |
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Crossed Post.
You are a terrible tease J M! Are Whitsbury about to launch Known Fact/Refuse to Bend mark 3? |
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Not teasing, PM. Moreover, I don't actually know who the new Whitsbury horse is (if indeed they get him). Staying on the Whitsbury theme, I understand that Charlie Oakshott's moving on 'to do his own thing'. Always had a lot of time for Charlie. On a separate note, I read somewhere last week that Steele Tango retires to stud next year. Honestly, what's the point? Some people really do need shooting.
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Interesting Whitsbury news. I have always been happy in my dealings with Charlie and I am reminded perhaps with Nigel Twiston Davies and the ascension of his son. Indeed Joseph O'brien too. I only hope that if the Harpers are keeping it in the family that they know what they are doing.
Any clues on the Warren/Highclere horse J M? |
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Could Whitsburys surprise be Famous Name? That's fairly left field?
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I imagine Casper Netscher will turn up somewhere.
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I think BTS has not been placed at all well. If he had been kept in his grade (listed/G3) company he would now be very sought after a a value stallion.
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If Born to Sea were to find a home in England, what fee would the team be prepared to use him at? For me he is a difficult one to price.
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I think he has a similar profile to Fast Company, not as good but better bred and he stood for E5K so I'd say £4 - £5K. Maybe I'm doing him a dis-service but with his half brother not having any runners yet it's difficult to ask for more. There is also Kodiac / Invincible Spirit to look at too and Kodiac stood at E5K too. So I'll nail my colours to the mast and say £4K. Could be way out though.
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