For example.  A race at Caulfield:
Super NSW Uni
2.00  37.00  1000

the lay odds will be 2.24

Or
10.10  37  25

the lay odds will be
51.64

what are u 2 blokes on ........seriously, why have u tried to over complicate such a simple action..........derrrr, i want to lay number 5 in the next to lose 2000, answer;  sweet your set.............

When I signed up, I asked and was told they are licenced in Vanuatu.

I took them at their word. I'm not really expecting a knock on the door from the AFP.

What does interest me, is how Elsu goes with his withdrawl this week.

Billing Contact Name:                        Kalpakor Kalsakau
Billing Contact Organization:                Pacific Interactive Gaming Limited
Billing Contact Address1:                    PO box 9801
Billing Contact City:                        Port Vila
Billing Contact Postal Code:                 0000
Billing Contact Country:                     Vanuatu
Billing Contact Country Code:                VU
Billing Contact Phone Number:                +678.25775

I play online poker for fun.

Exactly Joel,
So I can't imagine Vanuatu lasting very long.
They actually have a second site, layexchange.com. which is another clone.

If they want to compete and stay there are certain requirements that must be met.
Just like Paddy Power, Bet365, William Hill et al.
They must have an Australian licence AND have a presence here, which means they will be subject to Turnover Taxes.
There's just no getting around it like the good ole days.
That's why Norfolk Island was no longer viable and why the Irish are bulk buying all Australian based online presences.
They don't have to establish a presence, the presence is already there. ;)

The purple place pulled out of Australia at the first sign of trouble, because there was no reason for it to stay since nobody bet on it and they weren't making any money on it to even bother with it.

As for layexchange.com, it is the same site, different domain.  Account number still logs you in there.

And BTOR, you realise it is illegal for you to play online poker, and for them to offer the service to you.  Right?

As for Paddy Power and co, are you sure they didn't just buy out our bookies to use their model and make an extra 50 million a year in profits off our mugs because they were running out of punters in the UK?

Beats me why there are so many people so negative and prepared to just cop it on the chin.  Do you think it is right that our only options to bet are with those mobs that do nothing but fleece money from mugs and not allow anybody else to bet?  Do you think it is right that they change the rules to put businesses like BF out of business to keep us all poor?
Actually, it doesn't beat me at all.  Because there are so many of you that just sit there and be shat on by "the man".

Looks to me like they have spent 125k+ on a license alone to bet there, plus however much they spent on the site programming/format/blueprint..

They have a model that can't help but make them money, and there are other operators already in Vanuatu operating for years.  Not only that, but they allow me to do the one thing I want to do, along with BF only, and that has have a ****g bet.

If **** goes sour, I doubt I will be holding ill feelings to them, it would be the government that shut them down, unless of course it is a scam, which I doubt is the case.

and bet365 were betting on AFL for years were they not?  And NRL?  Probably Aus races also?

what sh!t u speak overboard. Australia has no authority over what services are offered by oversea's bookies. Bookies have been betting in Vanuatu for 25 years.

the "interactive gambling act" is a piece of paper which is completely worthless and toothless and just goes to show how hypercritical it is.......... and would never stand up in the WTO court.

up until applying for licenses in Australia all the bookies you mention all bet on Aussie horse racing, until it suited their purpose to obtain a license on shore in Australia.

So Aussie bookies are allowed to bet on Hong Kong, European, Sth Africa and English racing but for some reason u reckon all oversea's bookies aren't allowed to bet on Australian races? completely and utter rubbish and would never hold up in the International Trade tribunal or the WTO which Australia is a member

and who the fck is the purple site

Wow jointroller, you certainly need to chillax and explain why Betfair didn't just save themselves billions and offer exchange betting on Aus races from the UK, or Malta or wherever.

And that right there is your answer.

overboard, just have a think about that u jerk.........if they have a presence here they can directly attack and acquire aussie punters through the media and all other means..........and by the way they did offer betting on aussie races before they were told to cease and decided to get a license in australia, plus they are a public company and cannot to be seen or do not want to be seen to be in dispute with foreign governments for future reference to enter any other markets.


And by the way u can take this to the bank.........IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR AUSTRALIAN CITIZENS TO BET WITH OVERSEAS BETTING COMPANIES OR CASINO

What is more likely to happen, is they change their formula, and make it unworkable for anybody to bet with them, which seems to be from 1.236 up to 1.405 for the dogs and trots tonight.
Last market 74%

I have taken out 3 times now, and the formula that I can see has changed from 1.236 on under 10.00, to it appears 1.403 on under 5.00, and 1.8 on best tote everything else.
Can anybody confirm?

He's got no idea of the law, nor the changes that have taken place.

Attracting Aussie punters and advertising was a byproduct of the steps they were required to take by law. To insinuate that was the reason they spent billions on a presence here is beyond ludicrous.

and by the way they did offer betting on aussie races before they were told to cease and decided to get a license in australia

Exactly, you just screwed your own argument!

The laws changed and they decided to get a licence so that they could accept bets from Aussies without it being illegal for us and them.
They can accept bets from us on UK racing without a licence and without it being illegal, but Aussie races it is illegal.

Take this to the bank, why do you think they had to stop accepting bets from Greece, Germany and other countries. Why do you think they can't supply markets for Hong Kong, can't take US punters but can take bets from other countries on US races?

The answers are all there in the regulations.

As I said, if I started accepting bets from US residents on racing, not only would I be breaking Australian law, but I can guarantee the FBI would make the trip to hunt me down.
It's happened many times before, it would be a joint prosecution.

Not at those percentages no.  Not sure if it is because I have withdrawn 3 times, or if it was because **** Monday meetings, or if they just decided they wanted to try and fool everybody.

Either way though, they do pay out and I guess people are free to work the rest out for themself.

overbite...................forget the US, different kettle of fish altogether, for one major reason, they dont have bookies..........

The WTO and International Trade Tribunals have already ruled on excatly what you claim to be illegal. and it states

"That its is illegal for a country to offer services to foreign countries citizens and then refuse those same services from being offered to your citizens"

its all just a big scare campaign......tell me of one foreign bookie who has ever been charged under the Interactive gambling Act............or one Aussie citzen that has ever been charged for betting with o/s bookies.......it hasnt and will not ever happen because the act isnt worthy of sh!t paper

dont get me wrong Hope, by all means do your due diligence on any o/s company that you are about to transact with, and that doesnt go just for gambling companies.

make up your own mind and then transact with whom ever you wish.........buyer beware

The aussie  Gambling Productivity Commission last year reported that more than 2200 internet sites are providing aussie citizens with gambling services, but alas not one charge against a company or punter. As i keep saying the 2001 Interactive Gambling Act is utterly useless. Despite what Overthetop states about "laws have changed", it is not the case the IG Act from 2001 has not had one inclusion or deleted any of the original act. I mean what a joke that for years, bet365,paddypower,sportingbet,betfair,unibet,betfred and a host of others all provided gambling services to aussies, but then 3 months before obtaining an Australian License they all stopped, so they shouldnt be charged or fined for contravention of the Act retrospectively ?...........pleeaaassse

Great name there Lick.

Be careful. He will come back full of venom and vitriol.  Be prepared. Damn good bloke logroller. And an encyclopaedia of betting wealth and knowledge. Loves Vanuatu by all accounts.

How much does it cost to get some legislation changed Log?  A carton? Bottle?

I give up jointroller, clearly you just can't grasp the law nor the Act, because it doesn't suit your argument.

forget the US, different kettle of fish altogether, for one major reason, they dont have bookies

Wrong, they have bookies in Las Vegas.


"That its is illegal for a country to offer services to foreign countries citizens and then refuse those same services from being offered to your citizens"

That doesn't apply to gambling, it applies to trades and services.
Again, that is the reason there's no Hong Kong markets on Betfair and similarly why you can't use Betfair even if just on holidays in the USA.

U.S. Attorney’s Office August 08, 2012    

Eastern District of Pennsylvania (215) 861-8200

PHILADELPHIA—A 23-count indictment was unsealed today charging 16 defendants in a conspiracy case involving the Mastronardo Bookmaking Organization, a multi-million-dollar sports betting operation with bettors throughout the U.S. At its peak, the alleged organization had more than 1,000 bettors and was generating millions of dollars a year. All but one defendant (Joanna Mastronardo) are charged with conspiracy to participate in a racketeering enterprise (RICO) and conducting an illegal gambling business. The indictment alleges that between January 1, 2005 and January 1, 2011, the organization utilized Internet websites and telephone numbers that allowed bettors to place sports bets on football, baseball, basketball, golf, horse racing, and other sporting events. Residents of Costa Rica staffed the Internet and telephone sites. The defendants allegedly hid more than $1 million in and around their homes, including in specially-built compartments and in PVC pipes that were buried in a yard.

Charged are Joseph Vito Mastronardo, Jr. and John Mastronardo, the two alleged leaders; Joseph F. Mastronardo, Eric Woehlcke, Harry Murray, Joseph Vitelli, Anna Rose Vitelli, Patrick Tronoski, Edward Feighan, Kenneth Cohen, Schuyler Twaddle, Michael Loftus, Michael Squillante, David Rounick, Ronald Gendrachi; and Joanna Mastronardo, the wife of Joseph Mastronardo, Jr. All, with the exception of Twaddle, were arrested this morning.

The indictment was announced by U.S. Attorney Zane David Memeger, FBI Special Agent in Charge George C. Venizelos of the Philadelphia Field Office, Special Agent in Charge Eric Hylton of the Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation, and Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Ferman.

The indictment alleges that the defendants ran the organization using telephone, Skype, e-mail, text messaging, and in-person communication. They allegedly met bettors in-person, often in public buildings and parking lots, to collect or deliver payments that ranged from $1,000 to more than $100,000. The organization also allegedly used a gas station on Norristown Road in Blue Bell, Pennsylvania, as a mailing address and drop-off site to collect gambling payments.

According to the indictment, members of the Mastronardo Bookmaking Organization laundered the gambling proceeds using check cashing agencies, private bank accounts, and international bank accounts and provided instructions so that a losing bettor could pay a gambling debt through a charitable donation.

According to the indictment, leader Joseph V. Mastronardo, Jr. supervised the agents, sub-agents, websites (www.betroma.com and www.betrose.com), office employees; laundered some of the betting proceeds; collected debts; and instructed others to collect debts. Mastronardo’s brother, John, also a leader in the organization, supervised agents and sub-agents, laundered proceeds, and collected debts. John’s son, Joseph F. Mastronardo, worked as an office employee, collected debts, and performed other financial duties. Eric Woehlcke was initially a bookmaker and office employee, then worked as an office manager, and eventually became a leader supervising agents and sub-agents and laundering proceeds. Harry Murray was a bookmaker who resided in Florida and laundered proceeds in and outside the U.S. Joseph and Anna Rose Vitelli owned J&A Check Cashing where, in 2006, they allowed the organization to occupy an office for the illegal gambling business and which was also used to aid in the laundering of proceeds. Tronoski, Feighan, Cohen, Twaddle, Loftus, Squillante, Rounick, and Gendrachi were all bookmakers.

The indictment alleges that in March 2010, Joseph V. Mastronardo, Jr., in a conversation with bookmaker Harry Murray, commented, “Well, times like this I’m happy I’m a bookmaker,” to which Murray responded, “Me too.”

“Technology allowed the defendants to allegedly expand their gambling and money laundering operation far beyond the borders of Pennsylvania,” said Memeger. “Unfortunately for the defendants, however, we have the necessary statutory tools to investigate and prosecute those who openly flout our illegal gambling and financial reporting laws.”

“Illegal gambling and money laundering are the financial engines that help drive criminal enterprises like the one alleged today,” said Special Agent in Charge Venizelos. “The type of gambling activity charged here is illegal. These types of extensive and long-term joint investigative efforts, worked with our partners like the IRS and Montgomery County Detectives, are intended to dismantle criminal organizations that profit from illegal activities.”

“This alleged racketeering operation was anchored in Montgomery County but had tentacles spreading across the U.S. and beyond,” said D.A. Ferman. “Despite our attempt to shut it down in 2006-2007 with a Montgomery County prosecution, my office discovered that the defendants, as is alleged in the indictment, were back in business. We partnered with our federal counterparts to examine the full scope of the alleged illegal gambling operation. Today’s indictment reflects the work of many law enforcement agents across multiple agencies. These defendants tried to ‘game’ the system. Today, they crapped out.”

“The indictments announced today are the result of a significant and complex investigation,” said Special Agent in Charge Eric Hylton. “With both law enforcement and financial expertise, our agents are uniquely qualified to assist with these types of cases by following the trail of money. Our office will continue to work aggressively to identify and target illegal financial gains.”

Joanna Mastronardo is charged with one count of structuring in which it is alleged that she participated in making approximately 72 deposits in amounts less than $10,000, totaling more than $500,000 in a 12-month period.

Joseph V. Mastronardo, Jr. is charged in all 23 counts of the indictment. The remaining 14 defendants are each charged with the RICO conspiracy and with prohibition of illegal gambling. The indictment also seeks forfeiture of more than $6.3 million as alleged proceeds of the illegal enterprise.

The case was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Internal Revenue Service-Criminal Investigation, the Montgomery County Detective Bureau, and the Montgomery County District Attorney’s Office. It is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Jason P. Bologna.

An indictment or information is an accusation. A defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.


Goodnight jointroller!