Is anyone winning $250k (lifetime) and paying higher premium charges?

maybe they should limit it to 10 years - lifetime seems like it would get most good winners eventually

sad isn't it - and we all loved betfair and they do this

They had to do it. It has had the desired effect. There are a lot less bots around these days, or not less, but they ones that are around are just pathetic for the most part. I remember in 2006 they were everywhere and they were 24/7 and skimming out of everything that moved.

I thought it was 250K in English pounds, not Oz dollars? If I'm right that's close to 400K Oz dollars.

It IS in English Pounds.

And speaking of bots, if I ever find the S.O.B. responsible for that annoying farking $5 spread market bot I am gonna put the fkr in the hospital, I aint lying.

There are other conditions you know?  It is based on your commission generated mainly.  If you have a highly successful strike rate, so much so that you never lose, then yes, you will pay 60%.  If you are a profitable punter with say 10% profit margin (ie you have a 10% edge) then you shouldn't ever have to pay any more than you are now, regardless of how much you are in profit.

Been a while since I looked at it, but I believe the figure is 20% commission generated.  This means that when you win, your commission paid/2 is commission generated.  When you lose, the amount you lost/2/commission rate is your commission generated.  (Did I say that right? What it means, is if your loss was a win, how much would it cost you in commission, then divide it by 2)....

So basically, ring up and get a PC sheet emailed to you.  It will tell you where you are at.  But if you are generating >20k in commission for every 100k you profit, then you should be fine.

Unless there is a new charge that I don't know about?

Screw it.  Just read this instead......

Premium Charges
In addition to the other charges detailed above, a small number (less than 0.5%) of our most successful customers will incur Premium Charges.
Please note that if you become eligible to incur Premium Charges, we will contact you before any charges are paid.
Calculating Potential Charges
Each week Betfair will calculate your ‘gross profits’* made, and your ‘total charges’** generated over the lifetime of your account. The details of these calculations are explained below.
You’ll only be considered for the Premium Charge if your account is in profit and only if the total charges generated since joining Betfair are less than 20%† of your gross profits.
The vast majority of customers, and even the majority of those whose betting on Betfair is profitable since they joined, do not meet both these conditions and will not incur the Premium Charge.
While those conditions accurately describe our most successful customers, they might also apply to new customers who have only bet in a few markets, or those whose accounts are in profit because of a significant big win. To ensure that those accounts are not inadvertently charged, we’ve added two further conditions: any single win that constitutes more than 50% of lifetime gross profits will be excluded from the calculation, and customers will only be considered for the Premium Charge after they have bet in more than 250 markets.
Each customer will also have a £1,000 allowance against the Premium Charge. This means that every customer considered for the Premium Charge will be exempted from the first £1,000 of the charge incurred.
Please note that for the purposes of calculating the charge we will assume that the charge has been in place since Betfair launched in June 2000. This means that we will consider all customers to have generated charges equal to at least 20%† of lifetime gross profits as of the 12th October 2009. However, this also means that for some customers, some or all of the £1,000 allowance against the charge will have been used prior to 12th October 2009 in order to offset hypothetical charges paid. Assuming hypothetical charges had been paid prior to introduction of the charge has the effect of reducing the amount that customers would typically incur.
Each week the customers who meet all the conditions set out above will be charged the lesser of:
The difference between 20%† of the previous week’s gross profits and the total charges generated during the week; and
The difference between 20%† of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account.
This means that you will not be faced with a Premium Charge that is more than 20%† of your gross profits for the previous week. Please note this figure applies exclusively to the maximum amount of Premium Charge payable. It is possible for the total amount of Premium Charges and commission paid to exceed 20%†.
Please note that the second of the two calculations set out above can only ever reduce the Premium Charge and will apply on the rare occasion that the difference between 20%† of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account is less than the same calculation for the previous week.
Premium Charges will be deducted from customer accounts weekly (on Wednesdays) in relation to the previous week’s activity (Monday to Sunday).
Accounts that relate to one person, entity, API subscription or a Master Account with related Sub- accounts (Trading version only) are treated as one customer for the purposes of calculating Premium Charges. Note that no Betfair points will accrue for Premium Charges.
*By ‘gross profits’ we mean the amounts won, excluding total charges, less the amounts lost, on all Betfair markets. Please note: the Premium Charge only applies in respect of bets placed on the Betfair betting exchange and it does not apply to any bets placed on other Betfair products.
**By ‘total charges’ we mean all commission generated by Betfair as a result of your betting plus any Premium Charges you’ve incurred. ‘Commission generated’ includes half the commission paid on winnings, but also half the commission that Betfair makes from the other customers who win in markets in which you’ve lost, which we call ‘implied commission’. When you win, Betfair collects commission at your rate of commission, but when you lose, the commission collected by Betfair from the winners is at their rate. So we’ll determine the commission generated by your betting activity to be:
Commission generated = (Commission + Implied Commission) ÷ 2
where
Implied Commission = market losses x 3%
We divide by 2 because otherwise we’d be counting each pound of commission twice.
Premium Charge Summary
You will only be considered for the Premium Charge if, over the lifetime of your account, you satisfy the following criteria:
Your account is in profit;
Your total charges generated are less than 20%† of gross profits; and
You bet in more than 250 markets.
Two further conditions reduce the likelihood that you will be required to pay the Premium Charge:
Any single win that constitutes more than 50% of your gross profits over the lifetime of your account will be excluded from the calculation; and
Each customer will have a lifetime allowance of £1,000 against the Premium Charge.
Each week the customers who meet all the conditions set out above will be charged the lesser of:
The difference between 20%† of the previous week’s gross profits and the total charges generated during the week; and
The difference between 20%† of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account.
Examples
Example 1
You have won gross profits of £10,000 since joining Betfair having bet in 800 markets.
You have paid total charges of £980; all of which has been paid through commission generated.
You have not been charged any Premium Charges to date although you have fully used up your allowance of £1,000.
During the previous week you won £500 and paid total charges of £80.
You are therefore charged £20 in Premium Charges ((£500 x 20%) - £80 = £20).
Example 2 - Charge Allowance
You have won gross profits of £10,000 since joining Betfair having bet in 320 markets.
You have generated £1,050 in commission and paid no Premium Charge to date.
During the previous week you won £500 and paid total charges of £50.
In the absence of a charge allowance you would have been charged Premium Charges of £50 ((£500 x 20%) - £50 = £50).
However, the £50 is offset against the £1,000 charge allowance meaning that no additional Premium Charge is paid.
You then carry over the balance of your charge allowance (£950) to offset against potential future Premium Charges.
Example 3 – Excluding ‘big’ wins
You have won gross profits of £8,000 since joining Betfair having bet in 500 markets.
You have paid total charges of £1,025, all of which has been paid through commission generated.
During the previous week you won £5,000 from a single market and paid total charges of £125.
As the win constitutes more than 50% of your total gross profits since joining Betfair, it is excluded for the purposes of calculating the Premium Charge.
However, the commission generated on the win does contribute towards total charges paid.
After the win is removed you have gross profits of £3,000 and total charges of £1,025 and therefore incur no additional Premium Charge.
†Premium Charges at higher rates
Higher rates of Premium Charge will apply to the very small number of customers (less than 0.1%) that satisfy the following conditions over the lifetime of their account:
Lifetime net profits*** exceed £250,000
Commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
Bet in more than 1,000 markets
The Premium Charge rate applied to each customer that satisfies these conditions is dependent on their lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio. The exact rate will be determined by the following table:
Lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio    Applicable Premium Charge Rate
< 5%    60%
5% - 10%    50%
10%+    40%
Please note that any single market win that constitutes more than 50% of your lifetime gross profits will be excluded from all calculations.
If you satisfy the conditions set out above on 20th June 2011, your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio on that date will be used to determine the Premium Charge rate that will be applied to your betting thereafter. If you first satisfy the conditions above after 20th June 2011, your Premium Charge rate will be determined based on your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio at that time.
The amount of Premium Charge incurred by each customer will be calculated in exactly the same way as the standard Premium Charge with the exception that the standard 20% rate will be replaced with increased rate applicable to the individual in each case.
For the purposes of introducing a change to the Premium Charge rate that applies to your betting, we will assume that you have always incurred the Premium Charge at the prevailing rate. For example, if the Premium Charge rate applicable to your betting increases from 20% to 40%, we will assume that you have always paid Premium Charges at 40%. However, as explained in the “Calculating Potential Charges” section above, this also means that for some customers, some or all of the £1,000 allowance against the charge will have been used in order to offset hypothetical charges paid. Assuming hypothetical charges had been paid prior to introduction of the charge has the effect of reducing the amount that customers would typically incur.
It is possible that your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio will change to the extent that your applicable Premium Charge rate will require adjustment. Should your rate change, we will recalculate as if you had always incurred the Premium Charge at the new rate. If your rate has decreased (eg if your lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio increases from 4.9% to 5.1% - moving you from a 60% rate to 50% rate), the Premium Charges you ‘overpaid’ when being charged the higher rate previously will be used to offset future Premium Charges. If your rate has increased, Betfair will notify you directly and give you at least two weeks’ notice before the increased rate takes effect. You are entitled to seek review of your Premium Charge rate at any time.
***By ‘net profits’ we mean the amounts won less the amounts lost, on all Betfair markets, less all commission paid and Premium Charges debited. Please note: the Premium Charge only applies in respect of bets placed on the Betfair betting exchange and it does not apply to any bets placed on other Betfair products.

Have always thought that dooky. What's to stop anyone opening an account in someone else's name and start fresh with no PC?

People always complain about the bots, the problem is not the bots it is the fact the people that write them are way smarter than you and were able to come up with a strategy that worked.

This was not an exclusive club that you could not join, the programs were out there at a very reasonable per month cost, just because you didn't have the ability to take this up is not the fault of the guys using them.

You want to blame someone for the increase in costs blame betfair, they license the technology that runs the bots, they allow them to operate because they make money on the back end.

I don't blame traders, they found a way to make money legally, the same with the bot runners, illegal about this.

What's an exchange license worth

It's not at all difficult to 'move' overseas like we used to during the in-play days. Makes it very difficult to ping them imo.

so PC is basically a traders commission and not a punter's commission?

from those numbers above if your a full time punter and you qualify for PC you would have to be fuc$8in dead eye ****!

if thats the case Castiron u then must have a terrific ROI

there are obviously arbing strategies to alleviate this

gatespeed

I just bet on one code in one state, plus a few bets each week on the AFL.

I mainly lay horses, that I consider under the odds.

I quit Betfair a few weeks after the PC was introduced. Not sure when that was now, probably 2008. I returned early Feb, this year, knowing I would pay the PC straight away, but with a strategy of laying a lot more horses that were borderline lays, hoping to increase my commission paid.

So far I have paid the PC every week bar three, but my % has increased and this week stands at 20.2%.  I'm hoping it works, and in 6 months time, I may be out of PC territory.

Gatespeed. If you think about the various ways to play on here it's quite easy to come up with a way of being so "efficient"
Just takes big b*lls

gatespeed

Unfortunately there is no fixed odds available for my betting and I don't have the time to look for arbs in other sports, but I do understand the theory behind doing what you suggested.

let me use your account for a month, and u will soon be far away from PC

could you not find some mickey mouse market not really being managed, lay some ridiculously high odds and have a friend make up the back part of the bet to rid yourself of profits and then get the cash back of him. There must be numerous ways around this PC surely. It's a problem that I hope to be effected by one day...

Fair enough, what if your friend put a stupidly high back price first and then you layed it. Would that work?