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THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for
THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for
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no need to go to Canberra to rally re the carbon tax - there are 2 in Melbourne this week head to head - pro and con, i'll be at the bigger one
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Ok ...if your trying to make things dearer and make companies move to renewables ....that is fine ....legislate that they can't pass cost onto end consumer ( taxpayer) .Fkn simple.
But No ....a fkn tax grab |
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Speaking of rallies....I did a bit of extra work at a "Union watering hole " in Brissy during the work choices rally. Had to close the pub for two hours and kick half the unions out.The Electrician lads sorted it out and re-opened only for them and the Media and arts guys
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business will always pass on costs AP - and should be allowed to IMO,the hope of course is that the price increase on dirty business will mean they either clean up or get priced out of the market by cleaner alternatives
The workers united will never get booted from a pub [;)] My turn to post from Crikey (well worth visiting just quietly)- what does weather vane Abbott think about climate change??? Climate change cage match: Abbott debates Abbott by Bernard Keane As the Gillard government’s plan for a carbon prices sends Coalition stocks soaring, attention is increasingly focusing on what opposition leader Tony Abbott believes in about climate change and how to deal with it. Today in Crikey, Tony Abbott debates one of his most formidable opponents on the issue — Tony Abbott. Tony Abbott: Climate change is a relatively new political issue, but it’s been happening since the earth’s beginning. The extinction of the dinosaurs is thought to have been associated with climate change. Tony Abbott: I’ve always thought that climate change was real because I’ve always known about the ice age and other things which indicate that over time climate does change. Tony Abbott: I am, as you know, hugely unconvinced by the so-called settled science on climate change. Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide have significantly increased since the spread of industrialisation, but it seems that noticeable warming has only taken place between the 1970s and 1990s. Tony Abbott: We have a clear policy on climate change. Climate change is real. Tony Abbott: I mean in the end this whole thing is a question of fact, not faith, or it should be a question of fact not faith and we can discover whether the planet is warming or not by measurement. And it seems that notwithstanding the dramatic increases in man-made CO2 emissions over the last decade, the world’s warming has stopped. Now admittedly we are still pretty warm by recent historical standards but there doesn’t appear to have been any appreciable warming since the late 1990s. Tony Abbott: It’s quite likely that increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has had some effect on climate, but debate rages among scientists over its extent and relative impact given all the other factors at work. Tony Abbott: We can’t conclusively say whether man-made carbon dioxide emissions are contributing to climate change. If they are, we don’t know whether they are exacerbating or counteracting what might otherwise be happening to global climate. Even if they are adding to climatic extremes, humanity may be able to cope with only modest adjustments. Tony Abbott: What we can say, though, is that we should try to make as little difference as possible to the natural world. As well, prudent people take reasonable precautions against foreseeable contingencies. It’s the insurance principle. Tony Abbott: OK, so the climate has changed over the eons and we know from history, at the time of Julius Caesar and Jesus of Nazareth, the climate was considerably warmer than it is now. And then during what they called the Dark Ages it was colder. Then there was the medieval warm period. Climate change happens all the time and it is not man that drives those climate changes back in history. It is an open question how much the climate changes today and what role man plays. Tony Abbott: I am confident, based on the science we have, that mankind does make a difference to climate, almost certainly the impact of humans on the planet extends to climate. Tony Abbott: The argument is absolute crap. Tony Abbott. We believe climate change is real, yes, we believe humans make a contribution towards climate change. Tony Abbott: There may even have been a slight decrease in global temperatures (the measurement data differs on this point) over the past decade despite continued large increases in emissions associated with the rapid economic growth of China and India. Tony Abbott: I think that the science is far from settled but on the insurance principle you are prepared to take reasonable precautions against significant potential risks, and that’s I think why it makes sense to have an ETS. Tony Abbott: I think there are all sorts of ways of paying for this that don’t involve a great big new tax that we will live with forever. Tony Abbott: There is much to be said for an emissions trading scheme. It was, after all, the mechanism for emission reduction ultimately chosen by the Howard government. Tony Abbott: What we need is environmental direct action. We need action which is actually going to make a difference. What we don’t need is a whopping great new tax masquerading as a green measure. Tony Abbott: The Howard government proposed an emissions trading scheme because this seemed the best way to obtain the highest emission reduction at the lowest cost… On the other hand, artificially created markets could be especially open to manipulation… For this reason, many now think that a carbon charge scheme directed at the least environmentally efficient producers would be simpler and fairer than an emissions trading scheme. Tony Abbott: We have a policy to reduce emissions, not just to make them more expensive. Tony Abbott: In the absence of wind that never stops blowing, sun that never stops shining and tides that never stop turning; in the absence of hydrogen cars; and in the absence of nuclear power stations to supply most base-load electricity, big reductions in emissions are impossible without a big increase in people’s cost of living or a significant change in their lifestyles. Tony Abbott: The important thing is what will it do to people’s cost of living and if it drives up your cost of living it is a tax. It’s effectively an increase in the rate of GST — that’s what it is. Tony Abbott: If Australia is greatly to reduce its carbon emissions, the price of carbon intensive products should rise. The Coalition has always been instinctively cautious about new or increased taxes. That’s one of the reasons why the former government opted for an emissions trading scheme over a straight-forward carbon tax. Still, a new tax would be the intelligent skeptic’s way to deal with minimising emissions because it would be much easier than a property right to reduce or to abolish should the justification for it change. *Taken from Tony Abbott’s biography Battlelines and speeches, media transcripts and articles since mid-2009. Additional research by Crikey intern Nikki Bricknell. |
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I think he has covered all the bases. Not to mention his @arse.
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holy sh.t.....scary insight.... our next puppet for sure
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So the peoples revolution will be a demonstration against his own policy/views?, plus the Carbon Tax.
So therefore a demonstration about nothing. Nothing being.........What he stands for and what he wants to do about Climate Change. What a sick joke this fool is.  |
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Therin lies the rub Womble : " the hope is" ...is one to assume if it doesn't work out we will see the costs returned to every taxpayer's bank A/c that has to pay higher chargers and the extra costs of candles when the elderly have their supply cut off ffs.
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Listen to wombleoz.
Out of touch. Doesn't get it. While pensioners spend this winter in bed all day - not because they are sleepy - but because its the only way they can afford to stay warm during the colder months - wombleoz rubs his hands together says bring it on. He wants to bring on a tax that serves no purpose to the environment - as you say AP, this is a tax grab - a great big tax grab. And he thinks standing alongside the left-wing sympathisers GETUP! and rallying for the carbon tax in Melbourne is a representation of the true views of Australians..... Wombleoz in his ideological world thinks a compensation package (that is not yet even planned for or in public with details) will cover the pain inflicted on Australian's. I say to you, BULLSH1T. Absolute BULLSH1T. The environment won't benefit. But we all cop a kick in the teeth, with another Labor tax that we CANNOT afford. |
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no comment on Abbott's changing positions over the last 18 months Jez??? didn't think so
pensioners will get overly compensated I'd suggest AP - hope is better than hopeless and that's the alternative |
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In fairness Jez ... The Libs are very light on how they plan to force the big polluters to change their ways ....which basically is at the heart of all this....
I simply say ....if it is to be such a dramatic issue ....legislation to a greener world is a legiatmate way. To what end slugging households in a user pay system is going to make a dent is beyond me..it really is Outside of resources sector...economy is tanking badly... re: sharemarket fall today.....piling on another tax to this situation...buckle up and hang on |
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I note the Fed Gov't green lighted Pulp mill in Tasmania today ... spewing crap 30 kms into the ocean...
Let's have a Carbon tax to green up the environment though... A Fkn Joke |
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If you can't speak for yourself wombleoz, but instead continue to post Crikey nonsense that somehow passes for journalism, no I won't comment.
I'm starting to think you and AFL are on in the same. I know you want to talk about Abbott and the Direct Action Plan rather than talk about your carbon LIE and the failing government JuLIAR Gillard. That's to be expected. Wombleoz "SUGGESTS" pensioners will be overly compensated. Based on FKN what ya clown? Where do you pull this nonsense from. Where are the details? Where are they? I haven't seen any compensation package yet - your just parroting the words of Labor MP's in the media who are under the pump and in desperation trying to suggest in fact this carbon tax will be a money spinner for pensioners..... Desperate deflection and lies not only from JuLIAR but from her supporters as the government trys to withstand increasing pressure. It'd be laughable if it wasn't having such a devastating impact on our great nation. |
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hope is better than hopeless and that's the alternative
The true words of an ideologue. This is a great big tax on everything that we HOPE will do something for the environment - it won't, but we hope. In his desperate and in full knowledge of the policy document (which I know his too much of an ideologue to actually read) on the Coalition's Direct Action Plan - wombleoz trys to deflect the poor reception and fledging debate from Labor on this carbon tax but calling a policy he knows nothing about hopeless ffs, wombleoz. Please. Is this what we've come to? A Carbon Tax will provide people with HOPE on Climate Change? |
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The Coalition's action plan has hard worked contained in it.
Renewable energy, clean energy projects, true incentives for business, and the list goes on. Its a real action policy with real outcomes. Not a great big tax on everything, that meets Labor's political and ideological goals - but serves no purpose for the environment. Labor, a self-proclaimed party of the working class, has decided to turn its back on its supposed "people" and attack our way of life and the cost of living  As for wombleoz, he doesn't get it. Doesn't understand families, doesn't understand pensioners. Doesn't under financial pressures or indeed being able to outline, at the very least, concrete outcomes from a great big tax that cause real pain to all households across the nation. |
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worked=work
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Not only is this carbon tax debate failing - but polling indicates that over 50% of people in the community now sincerely question the impact of human activity on our ever changing climate.
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and how is your wonderful direct action plan paid for Jez? from TAXES
from memory the previous ETS had pensioners compensated at 120% of the increases, i have no reason to doubt that will still happen, the Greens are VERY big on compensating those that need it most the tax, or any price on carbon, is the most effective way to change behaviours - plain and simple, we need a price trigger to force change AP i agree re the pulp mill, a terrible decision |
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Sad to see Julia over there in America yesterday greasing them up. Lets face it Americans are war mongering emotionalistic insecure pricks. Other than that I find most quite friendly, sociable and displaying exceptional manners.
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whats gunna happen when we have global cooling such as in the 1970s? ffs
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middle oz is screwed - cannot possibly improve - whatever they save in turning the lights,air con and the bedside clock radio off will be more than consumed by this insiduous tax, be told they are lucky to have same costs by doing same LOL - screwed by rising costs in recent years water power fuel etc GOT NOWHERE TO CUT BACK AS ALREADY DONE SO from encouragement by the govts that want more- I WONDER JULIAR AND HER COMRADES WILL SACRIFICE THEIR AIR CON? DOUBT IT
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Again, wombleoz misses the point (And I think he knows it).
We have 1) A carbon tax which does nothing for the environment but punishes all Australians - some Centrelink customers receive compensation - the rest of us - another Labor tax. A tax that will attack our way of life, attack our economy and rocket the cost of living in every which way. then we have 2) A DIRECT action plan. Not a tax, but a plan to green up our environment with REAL INITIATIVES, REAL INCENTIVES and with REAL OUTCOMES. It's not a carbon tax and it does not punish working Australians - nor does it increase of the cost of living, attack our way of life and kill our economy. The policy is open to community consultation but is complete and in full detail - unlike this half baked carbon tax. WHERE ARE THE DETAILS? The Opposition has a full policy detail, but the government? |
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This carbon tax is a farce.
Tony Windsor says scrap it, and I agree. I agree with greening up our environment with REAL ACTION. Not a great big tax on everything. There's a reason why States with a Carbon tax in the US are rolling it back with great urgency. But even then, the idea of this carbon tax is to cool the globe..... ....the theory of which (climate change) remains in great doubt.But even then, if we take it for what it is. The big polluters aren't aboard, the carbon tax is ineffective - yet JuLIAR, who said she wouldn't introduce it under a government she leads - is going to punish working Australians. For those as fkn angry as me. See on 23 March at Parliament House, Canberra. |
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*See you on 23 March at Parliament House, Canberra.
From 10am onwards. No Carbon Tax - Rally. Be there and tell this pathetic government and JuLIAR what you think. |
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Labor is a mess.
We all know Julia Gillard lied before the election when she said “there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead”. But did you know Labor’s former Climate Change Minister and current Finance Minister, Penny Wong, previously criticised the carbon tax they now want to impose on Australian families? In Senator Wong’s own words: “I have been very upfront about why I think a carbon tax isn't the most sensible thing for Australia.” (Press Conference, 3 November 2009) Here’s more of what Senator Wong has had to say about a carbon tax, its an interesting read: • “A carbon tax is not the silver bullet some people might think.” (Speech, CEDA State of the Nation Conference, 23 June 2010) • "The introduction of a carbon price ahead of effective international action can lead to perverse incentives for such industries to relocate or source production offshore. There is no point in imposing a carbon price domestically which results in emissions and production transferring internationally for no environmental gain." (Speech, Australian Industry Group, 6 February 2008) • "A carbon tax or regulatory mechanism would take not allow Australia to take advantage of emerging international economic opportunities." (Speech, Australian Business Economists Lunch, 20 February 2009) • "A carbon tax does not guarantee emissions reductions.” (The Australian, 23 February 2009) • “A carbon tax … is a recipe for abrupt and unpredictable changes, as the government would need to adjust the tax frequently to try to meet the emissions reduction target." (The Australian, 23 February 2009) • "A carbon tax is a less efficient way in the Australian Government's view of dealing with this issue.” (Interview, ABC News Radio, 16 April 2010) • "We know that you can't have any environmental certainty with a carbon tax." (Interview, Sky News, 30 April 2009) At a time when Australians are already doing it tough, the Labor-Greens carbon tax will unnecessarily lift electricity, grocery and petrol prices and attack jobs in our key industries. The Coalition knows there is a better way. Our direct action plan on climate change is economically responsible and won’t cost Australian jobs. |
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She's Wong. imo
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this proposed filthy tax is a blight and an insult ... it is based on an assumption ... not a fact ... yet is paraded
around as if it were FACT ... a shameful revenue grab attacking the innocent working taxpaying families |
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Climate change cage match: Abbott debates Abbott
by Bernard Keane As the Gillard government’s plan for a carbon prices sends Coalition stocks soaring, attention is increasingly focusing on what opposition leader Tony Abbott believes in about climate change and how to deal with it. Today in Crikey, Tony Abbott debates one of his most formidable opponents on the issue — Tony Abbott. Tony Abbott: Climate change is a relatively new political issue, but it’s been happening since the earth’s beginning. The extinction of the dinosaurs is thought to have been associated with climate change. Tony Abbott: I’ve always thought that climate change was real because I’ve always known about the ice age and other things which indicate that over time climate does change. Tony Abbott: I am, as you know, hugely unconvinced by the so-called settled science on climate change. Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide have significantly increased since the spread of industrialisation, but it seems that noticeable warming has only taken place between the 1970s and 1990s. Tony Abbott: We have a clear policy on climate change. Climate change is real. Tony Abbott: I mean in the end this whole thing is a question of fact, not faith, or it should be a question of fact not faith and we can discover whether the planet is warming or not by measurement. And it seems that notwithstanding the dramatic increases in man-made CO2 emissions over the last decade, the world’s warming has stopped. Now admittedly we are still pretty warm by recent historical standards but there doesn’t appear to have been any appreciable warming since the late 1990s. Tony Abbott: It’s quite likely that increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has had some effect on climate, but debate rages among scientists over its extent and relative impact given all the other factors at work. Tony Abbott: We can’t conclusively say whether man-made carbon dioxide emissions are contributing to climate change. If they are, we don’t know whether they are exacerbating or counteracting what might otherwise be happening to global climate. Even if they are adding to climatic extremes, humanity may be able to cope with only modest adjustments. Tony Abbott: What we can say, though, is that we should try to make as little difference as possible to the natural world. As well, prudent people take reasonable precautions against foreseeable contingencies. It’s the insurance principle. Tony Abbott: OK, so the climate has changed over the eons and we know from history, at the time of Julius Caesar and Jesus of Nazareth, the climate was considerably warmer than it is now. And then during what they called the Dark Ages it was colder. Then there was the medieval warm period. Climate change happens all the time and it is not man that drives those climate changes back in history. It is an open question how much the climate changes today and what role man plays. Tony Abbott: I am confident, based on the science we have, that mankind does make a difference to climate, almost certainly the impact of humans on the planet extends to climate. Tony Abbott: The argument is absolute crap. Tony Abbott. We believe climate change is real, yes, we believe humans make a contribution towards climate change. Tony Abbott: There may even have been a slight decrease in global temperatures (the measurement data differs on this point) over the past decade despite continued large increases in emissions associated with the rapid economic growth of China and India. Tony Abbott: I think that the science is far from settled but on the insurance principle you are prepared to take reasonable precautions against significant potential risks, and that’s I think why it makes sense to have an ETS. Tony Abbott: I think there are all sorts of ways of paying for this that don’t involve a great big new tax that we will live with forever. Tony Abbott: There is much to be said for an emissions trading scheme. It was, after all, the mechanism for emission reduction ultimately chosen by the Howard government. Tony Abbott: What we need is environmental direct action. We need action which is actually going to make a difference. What we don’t need is a whopping great new tax masquerading as a green measure. Tony Abbott: The Howard government proposed an emissions trading scheme because this seemed the best way to obtain the highest emission reduction at the lowest cost… On the other hand, artificially created markets could be especially open to manipulation… For this reason, many now think that a carbon charge scheme directed at the least environmentally efficient producers would be simpler and fairer than an emissions trading scheme. Tony Abbott: We have a policy to reduce emissions, not just to make them more expensive. Tony Abbott: In the absence of wind that never stops blowing, sun that never stops shining and tides that never stop turning; in the absence of hydrogen cars; and in the absence of nuclear power stations to supply most base-load electricity, big reductions in emissions are impossible without a big increase in people’s cost of living or a significant change in their lifestyles. Tony Abbott: The important thing is what will it do to people’s cost of living and if it drives up your cost of living it is a tax. It’s effectively an increase in the rate of GST — that’s what it is. Tony Abbott: If Australia is greatly to reduce its carbon emissions, the price of carbon intensive products should rise. The Coalition has always been instinctively cautious about new or increased taxes. That’s one of the reasons why the former government opted for an emissions trading scheme over a straight-forward carbon tax. Still, a new tax would be the intelligent skeptic’s way to deal with minimising emissions because it would be much easier than a property right to reduce or to abolish should the justification for it change. *Taken from Tony Abbott’s biography Battlelines and speeches, media transcripts and articles since mid-2009. Additional research by Crikey intern Nikki Bricknell. |
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There'll be as many at the march as a mid week race meeting in the middle of winter. Average Australians don't give much of a stuff, lifes busy. Shouldn't be so but thats the way it is.
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You'll be surprised Mike.
Lots of working Aussie's who are p1ssed off about this great big new tax on everything. This governments hopeless, thats a given. But these taxes are just too much - Aussie's can't squeeze much more out of the budget - the cost of living is crippling as it is. I'm hearing people who have never rallied before saying they'll be there - pensioners, workers, young people. I'm hearing people taking one day Annual leave to catch a bus from Melbourne to Canberra to attend. There's white hot anger out there - don't underestimate it. |
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AFL - can we at least stick to posting articles once.
The Coalition policy is out there for all to see. It's not a great big tax on everything - its a Direct Action Plan. Tony Abbott has been very clear on this. |
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Ok JMP, Where do I join?. Lets March?. for the rights of mankind. I'll supply rocks and missiles, and the marbles. This will bring back the good old days with police on mounted white charges, should be a great day. What about the Aboriginal Embassy they could be a bit pisssed of with all the noise going on that early in the day.
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This is not a Green's or Unionists protest with violence and all the rest - its a rally with some big numbers, calling for a government that lied to reconsider and NOT punish working Australian's with a great big new tax on everything. This is a peaceful rally. Some will ramp it up with farcical suggestions of it being a non-family event, for example, GETUP! (surprise surprise).......but its a peaceful rally. |
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I know a few Labor MP's who in their heart of hearts would love to join us campaigning against this carbon tax from JuLIAR.
But that of course, would be political suicide. Politics is politics and division is death. |
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Peaceful Rally, what goods that?. If non violent should have been held Monday after Sydney's weekend Mardi Gra and organisers would have got a fair few thousand returning home to Melbourne to join in on the way home. Non violent rally no wonder the kids of today have funny hair styles and rings pierced in strange places.
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if i had kids i'd be keeping them a long way away from the rally in Canberra on the 23rd, there are gonna be all sorts of nutters out there, and with so many Liberal voters in one place, definitely keep the children away
want to see how a rally works, watch the news tonight - will be a big crowd in Melbourne cheering for action on climate change - i'm about to shower up and head over now, only concern is I'll miss the first and maybe second at Flemington - get on the 2 and 8 |
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Brave souls campaigning for a carbon tax that will destroy our way of life, the economy, jobs and do nothing for you precious "climate change" THEORY.
But, what else do we expect from the GETUP! left wing Labor faction? Mobilise the GETUP! members to try and save Gillard Labor It's very desperate, but an expected response considering the numbers and the attention the rally organised for Canberra has attracted. I think I know which rally will attract the most media and most interest from everyday voters. As I say, on March 23 in Canberra, people are coming from across the country to rally. Yes they'll be some Liberal voters - but many thousands of the people are those who have never rallied, but are SO angry about this great big new tax on everything. There's a strong message that will be spread on March 23:  |
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Some big names also in attendance for the Canberra rally.
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apparently 200 in werribee for the anti crowd MANY MANY times that for the pro crowd
great to see so many of all ages and backgrounds rallying for the common good best sign, and one we'll see plenty of "price on pollution, our kids are worth it" |
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you nuclear guys still keen after what's happening Japan??? i hope all works ok in the end [:(]
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