i think the sun will be around a few years longer yet

speaking of which, here is a link to the 4 corners episode i mentioned, well worth a look, it is the future imo

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/07/07/4038488.htm

cutting pollution isn't free - i'd rather a tax on business to pay for it than it coming from consolidated revenue which is needed for hospitals, schools etc.  A carbon tax on top for mine but an ETS will do, despite the cream the traders will make

Thebas - i think as investment increases in alternatives, particularly solar, and the number of units increase, the point of critical mass will be reached more quickly.  Once that happens, coal will die.  If you can get your power cheaper from the sun why would you burn coal??? Won't happen overnight, but will happen - it will be a great day for the world when it does imo

But i do agree, self interest is a massive driver - the mining moguls will use all their power to extend the life of their mines and way of life.  Just like the oil folk who have fought tooth and nail against electric cars and the like

You can't stop the inevitable, only slow it down

Interesting we still have a carbon tax - every day it survives is a day Clive could change his mind - not that i think he will

womble
Once that happens, coal will die. 

... coal will die once the reserves are depleted

the ETS .. the long con ... is designed for a long slow painful play out to extinction

govts after requests from the IPCC / UN have determined to reduce their co2 emmissions .... algae talked the europeans into reducing their standard from 12½% to a mere 5% reduction ... a figure that our previous Oz govt saw fit to target as well

however these are govt plans .... and govt don't run BUSINESS

with a fake for the environment co2 tax ... and now the (long con) ETS ... business costs will increase (and assumedly be passed on to the user)

NOWHERE in the co2 tax andr especially the ETS is there a law or committment to REDUCING the production or burning of coal

as long as (someone) pays .. they can legitimately BURN MORE AND MORE COAL ... in fact if someone pays they burn as much of it as they want

and of course .. as stated by the IPCC at Cancun recently ... international climate policy is no longer about the environment ... THEIR WORDS

clive, algae, gillard, the greens, turnbull ... all support the ...

BIGGEST RORT EVER 

looks a beautiful day out that window ted   

sun is shining / trees are green / sky is blue

if that's the plan .. its a ripper

(sure beats handing over $10 bill of our sovereign wealth to the un ... like the deposed by her own party ex-labor leader planned ... before she rightfully got .. the axe       )

the UK put their carbon tax on ice until 2020 well before us ted

canada also saw the light

the trick and fake-for-the-envirnment gillard tax was useless and pointless ... we are well rid of it

of course the ETS is the real (long) con .. and gonna be hard to stall its global progress now that the bankers have taken control

they have the environments best interests at heart tho of course       

they are hardy folk in whyalla ted .. we all wish them well .. like every other township in hard times

shame about what happened there over the past 4 years tho

1) Huge jobs blow as $1 billion Arafura Resources Whyalla mineral processing plant scrapped

Whyalla residents will be resilient in the face of another blow to its economy after Arafura's decision to scrap plans for a $1 billion minerals processing plant, its mayor says.

Arafura said a challenging business environment due to "increasing business costs, lower rare earths prices and continuing depressed capital markets" had led to the decision.

2)  It's another major blow for the region following BHP Billiton's decision to defer its Olympic Dam expansion and the decision by Deepak Fertilisers to withdraw plans for an ammonia nitrate processing complex - all worth billions and with major economic spin-offs.


... maybe business costs can be addressed in the near term  ... BHP were confident following the repeal today ... but i'm a cynic and don't trust anyone ... but we shall see

have a good night Ted 

sad for australia re the pointless co2 tax going ... you couldn't be more wrong imo

unless you are addicted to a placebo effect ...

the real trick .. the long con ... the ETS .. is waiting in the wings

to finally strip sovereign wealth

for NO noticeable affect to the planet

will no-one wake up in time to stop the bankers and the billionaires

or is the world that blind that a trick will have them thinking they are doing something tangible

we shall see what fate befalls nations at the hands of the con

----

meanwhile ... the smart money is moving ahead in leaps and bounds .. while the UN and its cohorts attempt to shackle and enslave our side of the fence

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24472980/south-america-hails-new-brics-bank/

South American presidents hailed on Wednesday the creation of a development bank by the BRICS group of emerging powers as an alternative to the Western-dominated global financial system.

The leaders of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa held unprecedented talks with South American peers in Brasilia a day after the BRICS agreed to launch the bank and an emergency reserve fund.

The $50-billon bank, to be based in Shanghai, will fund infrastructure projects in developing countries while the $100 billion reserve fund, dubbed "mini-IMF" will help the BRICS withstand currency crises.

carbon tax worked to reduce emissions

yes i remember combet claiming that also ... less than 3 months after the fake for the environment co2 was introduced ffs

we might also remember the AIG put out figures around the same time

advising manufacturing in australia had dropped 8% (bout the same figure as the drop in electricity usage ... hmmmm)

and yet the big burners China & India go ahead in leaps and bounds

china will look at implementing 'something' in 3 - 4 years (while they move money from province to province in what they laughingly call a LOCAL ETS)

india have put 4 cents a tonne on their tax and ramped up production

and when the world is conned into trading co2 through the western banking cartels ... it will be all steam ahead (pun ahead) to burn MORE and MORE

something can be done

what they are planning is a trick to strip sovereign wealth on the pretext of aid for africa

the BRICS have swallowed africa into their consortium from under the noses of the UN

so what is the co2 money really for again ?   (it sure ain;t the environment .. as have already advised at cancun)

looks like the scammers live on this thread judging by the removal of my last post! criminals

and maybe Electricity Bill sorry i meant Bill Shorten wasn't happy with me telling the forum he will bring in the scam ooops sorry again delete that (take note moderators!!)
he will bring in an ETS at the next election

another post removed secong - mine his time - the truth shall not be heard - the grubs know who they are

yep mate censored ... i know you are for open speech regardless of beliefs and i respect you for that ... and enjoy the banter with you

i simply put up a website showing figures that currently the vic brown coal mines are in almost full production ... all since the intro of the co2 tax ... no change at all to our dirtiest emitters ... such is life

all the best with it womble ... you know my thoughts on all this ... lets hope someone does something TANGIBLE and not fool around around with this lets burn as much as we can stuff as long as someone pays (ie  co2 and more importantly the planned global ETS ensuring 50 more years of the same old same old ... shame about the environment)

australia's emmissions don't rank anywhere near one half of one per cent of what china, india, the usa & russia put out

we have a govt that won't sacrifice our economy to try and shame the rest of the world into sacrificing their economies .. for a plan that has no real outcome

again .. all the best with it ... and to the censorer .... well .. buy yourself a huge mirror .. stand in front of it and look into it 

cheers ted ... i appreciate your clarification ... i enjoy the banter with you too .. all the best today

well Bill has signed off on his chance to lead the country by committing to the scam err I mean ETS......tony has 2 years to highlight this fraud and by that time the people will believe him and also see 3 years of good governance with the country back on track.........great stuff bill....you've committed to two term tony right there

didn't get to see your post Thebas but you are 100% in your posting re burn burn burn...sadly for the planet its about money money money and nothing about the environment.........wrong approach......if the world thought this was a huge problem we'd all be using nuclear power and driving LPG or even water powered cars in a mandated timeframe

heard some clown (randon caller) on the radio the other day stating I don't mind paying a couple of extra dollars(whilst still polluting in his over sized SUV getting on the big jet plane for holidays and having his house look like a xmas tree as he turns off all the lights each night, Wi-Fi,clock,modem, tv's in each room ALL ON STANDY) to stop bushfires, flooding, hotter temps (coming off one of the coolest winters in Brisbane for 100 years lol).......for his kids and grandkids.........mate you just contributing to the algae scam......spend your money on solar and/or lpg cars.....you get to SAVE MONEY and you think it helps the planet for your kids.............in your eyes win/win

obviously the rorters side......where they can burn burn burn all they like...as long as $$$ changes hands they don't give a flying...just like al in his jet burning everywhere he goes

how has the EU ets worked?

and burning continues

it'll come good

you too Secong

Extract from.......Australian Financial Review

Hunt signals he may allow international carbon permits

Environment Minister Greg Hunt has indicated for the first time he could allow lower cost international carbon permits to be included as part of the government's

Direct Action plan, as negotiations to pass the successor of the carbon tax through parliament begin in earnest.

END.

......................................................................

loonpond. blogspot.com.au

22/07/2014

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has been a key opponent of the purchase of international credits, which he described in 2011 as ''money

that shouldn't be going offshore into dodgy carbon farms in Equatorial Guinea and Kazakhstan''. 

So if Abbott and Hunt go ahead with the proposal, they won't be just implicated in fraud and hypocrisy, they'll be guilty as hell

outrageous deception of the first water.

But but but billy goat, you say, how rich and redolent is the level of fraud and hypocrisy. What does first water actually mean?

Please allow the pond to climb into its time machine and head back to the AFR in August 2013, Coalition may buy overseas carbon

permits:

The Coalition has indicated it is prepared to consider raising the 5 per cent target but not until at least 2015. Many climate change experts believe the Coalition will need to buy international permits to meet the 5 per cent target.
On Sunday, Coalition environment spokesman Greg Hunt denied the Coalition would use international permits to meet the 5 per cent target.

Denialism. The line then being that the direct action plan was in hand, and it would work.

And this:

The Direct Action policy states the Coalition “will ensure that all action taken to achieve our 5 per cent CO2 emissions reduction target also delivers environmental

improvements here in Australia, not overseas”.

In 2011, Mr Abbott said money spent by companies buying overseas carbon credits didn’t actually reduce emissions and was just “a massive transfer of wealth from this

country to carbon traders overseas”.

“It’s money that shouldn’t be going offshore into dodgy carbon farms in Equatorial Guinea and Kazakhstan,” he told 2GB.

“That’s no way to improve the environment here in Australia.”

And on another occasion, he said: “We all know the potential for fraud, the potential for scamming. I mean, even the European emissions trading scheme has been

riddled with scamming and that’s in a culture where administrative probity is held in wide respect, let alone some of the other countries where carbon credits will no

doubt be available.”

Under Direct Action, the Coalition has claimed it will purchase abatement from Australian companies from as little as $8.50 per tonne of carbon.

But even if this is possible, it is still considerably higher than international carbon permits: the European carbon price is around $6.40 and the United Nations

“Kyoto” permits are 85¢.

And that explains why Tony Abbott has a trust and competence deficit.

When it comes to climate science,  he's a proven liar, hypocrite and fraud, and if Greg Hunt gets his way on this one, Abbott will also have been shown to be a fool ...

But wait, there's more. Here's the cheap joke that Abbott led with, in his interview with Alan Jones, a transcript of which is

thoughtfully provided by WA Liberals here, little realising it would hang around in the digital ether like a fart joke:

TONY ABBOTT: The thing that struck me yesterday though was that the Government, even on its own figures, even after all the time and trouble of this great big new tax, our emissions are still going increase. I mean we are going to put in place this massive tax that’s going to leave 3 million households worse off even on the Government’s own figures and that’s before the price just goes up and up and up and even with all of this we’re going to have significant increase in our emissions and the only way we can meet our emissions reduction targets is to spend about $3 billion buying carbon credits from overseas and that’s money that really should be invested in Australia. It’s money that shouldn’t be going offshore into dodgy carbon farms in Equatorial Guinea and Kazakhstan and all the other places that Kevin Rudd visits.


Ah that joke needs a new punchline.

Dodgy permits in Equatorial Guinea and Kazakhstan and all the other dodgy schemes that Greg Hunt and Tony Abbott routinely visit ...

There was a lot more in that interview - it now reads like a precious time capsule of nattering negativity - with Whyalla - it'll be wiped off the map - getting a mention, and this:



ALAN JONES: You made reference recently to the 2009 Copenhagen Consensus Panel which includes a trade economist, Jagdish Bhagwati, and three Nobel peace prize winning economists. Now that panel has ranked investment in technology, and this is what just some of the people on my staff were saying this morning, and versions of what you are calling the direct action plan are way above carbon pricing as the best way to tackle climate change even if you believed in climate change.

TONY ABBOTT: That’s right, Alan. Carbon taxes and emissions trading schemes were ranked bottom of the list by these three Nobel laureate economists and we also have a whole lot of very distinguished European economists come out the other day in criticising the European Emissions Trading Scheme which they say hasn’t reduced emissions but has been widely scammed and it’s been, they say, an economic own goal because it’s driven industry offshore without reducing emissions and there’s been all this opportunity for fraud. So, this is, alas, the world that the Prime Minister is begging to enter.
.............................................................


So this is alas, possibly the world that Greg Hunt and by extension the Prime Minister Tony Abbott are now begging to enter because all the bluster and blather about direct action was a reprehensible nonsense ...

The pond has absolutely no idea how the Bolter and the reptiles would handle Abbott and Hunt joining the international trade in carbon permits. And the pond doesn't care. Who cares what fraudulent hypocrites think about fraudulent hypocrites?