Spain @ 4/1 and have never even contested a world cup final

best spanish side of all time with no weaknesses packed with players who have won everything at club level and are also the european champions. worthy favs imo

Lemmings and divs being Joe Average Punter?

Well if it wasn't the muppets we wouldn't make any money would we.

Considering no one's kicked a ball yet at that price Spain is a huge LAY.

no weakness ha ha ha ha ha.try cant defend half of the game and dont rate keeper as high as some.best attacking 5 or 6 but no way 4/1 with there record in this and record does count in history of a world cup as proved on sportinglife preview

Have to agree value to be had in laying Spain, as good as they can be 4s is just to short at this stage.

how much hard earned are you guys backing this 1/4 good thing with?

didnt say iam laying them just not backing at them odds should be double to get my interest.instead just backing who i do fancy and see as value

Big Ern     10 Jun 10 16:58 
best spanish side of all time with no weaknesses packed with players who have won everything at club level and are also the european champions. worthy favs imo


If they had no weaknesses the USA wouldn't have stuffed them 2-0.I remember many  raving about Argentina after a couple of impressive games in the last World Cup. The Muppets will never learn.

they are worthy favourites imo but 4/1 doesn't represent anything like value.

However there is far worse value than Spain 4/1 in the top few in the betting, England at 8/1 obviously.

correct me if im wrong but i fail to see how the fact that spain did not contest the 1930 world cup final has any bearing whatsoever on their chances this time round?

not the 1930 world cup final justindaff.......we're talking any world cup final! oh and for what its worth they've only ever contested one semi final also!

Have just done the BBC tracker and Spain's route once out of the groups screams lay to me - as much as I agree they are probably the best team at the moment.

I make them likely to face Portugal, Italy and Argentina to get to the final - all of those games in a one off knockout situation could be tricky....

Spain look awesome, maybe not value at 4/1 but awesome all the same.

awesome front 5 or 6 but thats only half the game rest of side average would be being kind.an awesome team is 1970 brazil 1 to 11.people who know nothing or very little throw this hype around trying to talk about what they think is a great team but plenty of fools out there i guess

We'll see. Spain will do the talking.

If you want to look for fools look for those who think the likes of Germany and Italy won't qualify?

doesnt matter if spain win or not or whoever of the 32wins there is no great team in the world at moment you might find good and very good but defo not great when you see 1 to 11 who are all the best playing the best thats a great team wont see to many in a lifetime to be fair.yeh i think both will qual aswell when comes to world cup both generally bring best game wouldnt write either off

Neely i agree,i think Germany will go well,they always do i suppose u could say,on paper the have a decent looking side,but games aretn won on paper!!!! Italy id be more concerned about,probably still scrape through though

Defence is no worse than any other and better than most imo.Keepers are all top class,Midfield is strong in depth and full of class and the 2 strikers are as good as you can get.
Worthy favs,although given the unpredictablity of the Sport 4 is maybe a tad small,however they are the most likely winners imo.

As for never winning it before,i dont see that as anything to do with it,and if anything it is likely to spur them on even more.

Dearth of quality international sides...spain are the stand out..but they will still need luck to win da thing bluds

Brazil @6 is the bet of the tournament.

Come 10pm on 11th July you'll be wondering what madness made you doubt them

Spain have not even contested a World Cup semi-final.

In the 1950 competition of thirteen teams Spain played in a final group of four and finished last of four with one point from three games: Uruguay 2-2 Spain; Brazil 6-1 Spain; Sweden 3-1 Spain.

4/1 for the present team is not good against Brazil; Argentina; Germany; Italy; Netherlands; England; Portugal, France.

Didnt even see that kinscem,i had just presumed when they'ed finished fourth that they'ed have been in a semi final! good spot m8

I think Coral went 9/2 in the shops today.

why the **** i didnt get on brazil at 8s ages ago i dont know im looking at loads of crazy stuff van persie is 2.56 to be top goalscorer for holland thats got to be worth a couple of quid although ill probably curse him and he'll get injured. Hope not as im a gooner :) I like the look of Brazil to reach the last 8 at 1.56 but i dont bet large stakes so not much use for me.

someone can explain to me why torres and villa are considered the best strikers of the world, still their clubs couldnt finish higher than 7th or 3rd in their leagues? surely messi, ronaldo, rooney, drogba, milito, higuain, etoo, even anelka, not only have been more prolific this season, but even more effective in reaching higher targets with their clubs?

I think they are considered amongthe top strikers in the world not the best 2. It's an important distinction.
Where you finish in the league isn't simply down to the strength of your strikers. I fail to see your point in all honesty

Pissed the euros and a worthy fav imo

Don't care if they win just hope they go far and Villa bags a fair few goals.

winning the euros is the worst form guide you could use for the world cup.spain = no chance.

The price can't be value when to win it they are going to have to win multiple knockout games against teams featuring world class players.

If, for instance, Spain play Portugal 10 times they will win more often then Portugal due to being a stronger more reliable side imo, but on some occasions Ronaldo will do something fking ridiculous to beat them.

Basically there is some element of luck involved to win a world cup with 10 or so teams featuring players that are capable of turning matches that the price is just not value.

In the top 6-8 sides anyone can beat anyone on their lucky day...

Price a tad short,but they are the most likely winners.
Can anyone tell me why at this stage they will not win??

buddeliea already been answered. See above.

One word buddeliea...........BRAZIL!!!

people question their record int the world cup but what was their record in the eurpoean championship before last time.

This is a great team and will take some beating , top players from barca and real who have won everything .

The only nagging doubt is that the best teams do not always win , even when they won the euros they only beat Italy on penalties  albeit they dominated from start to finish.

U need luck to win these tournaments , will they get it ?

oh ok,so basically a few iffs and luck!!
Not exactly what i was after,but if thats the best reasons on offer.

Goretski,
Are Brazil more likely winners than spain?? Cant see it myself,what am i not seeing here??

[b]Ruari     11 Jun 10 10:12 
people question their record int the world cup but what was their record in the eurpoean championship before last time.



Why are you people so ignorant? Spain had already won the European championship in 1964. Guess who won the World Cup in 66? Not Spain. Hopefully that trend will continue.



This is a great team and will take some beating , top players from barca and real who have won everything .



Same could have been said about many teams that failed to win the World Cup. Holland in 74.
Brazil 82 and Argentina in 2006 to name just a few. Some people will never learn.


The only nagging doubt is that the best teams do not always win , even when they won the euros they only beat Italy on penalties  albeit they dominated from start to finish.

U need luck to win these tournaments , will they get it ?
[/b]



You also need a winning mentality and self belief and be able to play under different conditions. Spain probably don't have any of these.

buddeliea     11 Jun 10 12:44 
Goretski,
Are Brazil more likely winners than spain?? Cant see it myself,what am i not seeing here??



Brazils past record for a start. Brazil 5 world cups to Spains 0.Brazilians self belief.Brazils winning mentality. Brazil the only team that has won outside of its own continent apart from Argentina and they were playing under similar conditions to what they are used too.

I really dont think past world cups will have any bearing on this years,and i certainly dont think Spain are short of belief and confidence.
Of course Brazil have a fair chance of winning,so do a few others,i just happen to think Spains chances are better,cos imo they have better players,and i defy anyone to prove to me otherwise!!

You also need a winning mentality and self belief, probably don't have any of these. pmsl!!!!!!

Just won the Euro Championship,team has plenty of La Liga and Ch League winners,and p1ssed their group!!

Dont think they have a problem with winning and self belief some how!!

buddeliea Joined: 19 Mar 04
Replies: 641 11 Jun 10 19:08   


I really dont think past world cups will have any bearing on this years,


This is laughable. Why would you think such a silly thing?


[b]and i certainly dont think Spain are short of belief and confidence.
Of course Brazil have a fair chance of winning,so do a few others,i just happen to think Spains chances are better,cos imo they have better players,and i defy anyone to prove to me otherwise!![/b] 

Oh right it's all about who has the best players. I guess you backed Argentina in the last World Cup then. There is a lot more to it than who has the best players. A clue for you . Mexico has better players than South Africa. Mexico should have beat S Africa then to follow your logic. You've got a lot to learn.

buddeliea Joined: 19 Mar 04
Replies: 641 11 Jun 10 19:17   


You also need a winning mentality and self belief, probably don't have any of these. pmsl!!!!!!

Just won the Euro Championship,team has plenty of La Liga and Ch League winners,and p1ssed their group!!

Don't think they have a problem with winning and self belief some how!! 


The Euro Championship  is completely different tournament to the World Cup. Who wins it has no bearing on who is going to win the World Cup.Do some research? You might learn something.

I have to say im with sunset here,all in all Brazil out of 18 world cups to date have contested 9 semi finals,7 finals,have been runner-up twice and won the competition 5 times,Spain have never even contested a semi-final never mind a final!! tournaments aren't won on paper or by who has the best players,it's a team competition...1-11 and beyond,winning mentality also has a huge bearing on it,its blatantly obvious to me who has the better winning mentality,brazil also have a coach who not so long ago was part of a world cup winning side,spain have a top-class front 5 or 6 but thats not what solely wins world cups or any competition for that matter,torres has hardly kicked a ball in months and is not fully fit,poor at the back,whether or not they are european champions or not you can pick holes in the spanish team,im not saying they can't or won't win but going back to my original point of this thread a lot of people believe the hype and like i say lemmings and cliffs spring to mind

the price translates to them being an average of 1.5 in each round.

I'd buy that if they were looking at a gimme in the r16, but as they'll probably be facing portugal and maybe brazil, it looks too short.

on the other hand the job they did on poland last tuesday was fantastic.

4/1 hilarious with Brazil in the comp.

The English invented the game, Brazil perfected it.

Bring on that Samba beat.

Oh dear Sunset.
I prove you wrong by stating reasons why Spain have a winning mentality and self belief,and you come back and say the Euros are different to the WC-WHAT GENIUS!!
Course its different,but it DOES prove they have a winning mentality and self belief,which is what i was saying.
My reason for Spain winning the WC is based on their players,and you knock it,what do you want then the team with not so good players??
Of course the best team dont always win,this is football,but when looking at potential teams to win the WC,the ability of the players and the proven winning habit have a big say imo.
Going on about previous tournaments is not relevant imo and i stick by that,i just dont see how Spains players this year will be affected by the fact the country never winning it,these are players used to pressure,and imo they will be more determined if anything!!
Unlike you sir,i dont like to get personal,but i will say this, your patronising posts are nothing short of pathetic,grow up man and realise we are allowed differing opinions!!

Goretski,
You use Brazils past record as a yardstick for choosing this years winner-fair enough,i choose not to.Yes it proves the Country has a winning mentality,but different players are involved.Spain won the Euros with the same squad they have now,see what i am saying??Now as i said the Euros is a different comp,but it does prove the PLAYERS have a winning mentality.
Not sure where you got the poor defence from,dont look any worse than the other main contenders to me,but you are of course entitled to your opinion.Torres is in the squad so i presume he is fit,if he is struggling they can still play Villa up top on his own with support from the best Midfield around(dont think we can argue with that)as they often have in the past.
I am not saying they are perfect or certs to win,and yes you can pick holes,as you can with any of the teams!!
You fancy Brazil,i fancy Spain-fair enough i would think.
Not a lemming mate,just someone who thinks Spain will win the WC.

spain, and of course brazil, both have genuine realistic chances of becoming world cup winners this time around...

whether or not either of them do so remains to be seen...

yes, football is all about opinions, and a healthy discussion is always welcomed...

i dont feel there is the need for anybody to slate somebody else for not agreeing with them...

i personally dont feel either will lift the trophy, but i can certainly understand why people see these 2 countries as the most likely...

come on fellas, lets keep the debate sensible eh

Well said Panther,pretty much what i have been trying to do,just dont like the patronising personal comments,really no need for it!!

Buddeliea im not ribbing you or anything like that,as you say we're all entitled to our opinions,and theres not like some good football banter and debate,the reason i began this was im running a world cup prediction with 40 enteries and over 50% have gone for spain. Now im not aftertiming here but as you say its the same squad that won the euros,i was on,i think @ 8 or 9/1, not sure cant remember, but the point im making is i was slated for backing spain and the usual,they havent won anything in x amount of years and they're bottlers and all that,now this time round these are the people who are all over spain,and this is a world cup,outside of europe and they have south american teams also to contend with,plus they struggled to win 2 warm up matches rececntly againest the saudi's and south korea,like i say im not knocking anyone for thery're fancies but i defo wouldnt be steaming into them

Fair do's mate.Good luck with brazil.I aint backed Spain to win as a bet on its own,but i have backed them coupled with Villa to be top scorer,and the same with Torres, only small bets for a bit of fun,and hopefully will get a good run for my money!!

Spain odds down to 4.9
What are your thoughts about their price? Will it still drop or become higher again?
I want to back them but i'm not sure when.
I think they will batter the swiss on wednesday so maybe the right moment would be on tuesday if Brasil do a great match, making Spain's price better.
What do you think?

they wont get any bigger,if you wanna back them i dont think it makes any odds when u do but they defo wont get mucher bigger than what they are now

I think Germany's 1st half display tonight must move Spain's price a little north.

Germans have been here and done it all before and look very useful once more.

I take it France shouldnt of won it in 1998 then? To the bloke who said "the USA stuffed them". I suggest getting a video of the game

Calm down. If Spain are as good as all the Liverpool fans say they are they should walk it. No need to worry about the Germans or the Brazilians

I am a huge fan of Spain but dont forget their most effective defensive contributor at the Euros was Senna who isnt there this year. He covered up alot of their defensive cracks ( or stopped them appearing more like). Their outstanding midfield may have so much possesion and are quite good at pressing so the defense may not be so crucial but its still Puyol , Pique and Ramos who are not world class despite all their medals.

They have  Alonso and Busquets,both well capable of replacing Senna.

and never likely to contest a world cup final either.

[b]buddeliea Joined: 19 Mar 04
Replies: 696 12 Jun 10 06:12   


Oh dear Sunset.
I prove you wrong by stating reasons why Spain have a winning mentality and self belief,and you come back and say the Euros are different to the WC-WHAT GENIUS!!
Course its different,but it DOES prove they have a winning mentality and self belief,which is what i was saying.



To win the euros . Not the World Cup. Totally different.

My reason for Spain winning the WC is based on their players,and you knock it,what do you want then the team with not so good players??[/b]



No never said that.

Of course the best team dont always win,this is football,but when looking at potential teams to win the WC,the ability of the players and the proven winning habit have a big say imo.

Yes proven winning ability to win the World Cup. Spain haven't proven that.

Going on about previous tournaments is not relevant imo and i stick by that,i just dont see how Spains players this year will be affected by the fact the country never winning it,these are players used to pressure,and imo they will be more determined if anything!!

You have no facts to back up your opinion. The fact is all teams are affected by the past.Their human beings not machines.

Unlike you sir,i dont like to get personal,


How have I got personal?



but i will say this, your patronising posts are nothing short of pathetic,grow up man and realise we are allowed differing opinions!!


You have just contradicted your self here and got personal.

buddeliea Joined: 19 Mar 04
Replies: 696 12 Jun 10 06:31   


Goretski,
You use Brazils past record as a yardstick for choosing this years winner-fair enough,i choose not to.


That's your first mistake.

Yes it proves the Country has a winning mentality,but different players are involved.


So what? Look at the Germans. They've had different players over the last 56 years, but when the World Cup starts they start playing. They have self belief based on past success.


Spain won the Euros with the same squad they have now,see what i am saying??


No because they won it also in 64 . It may of escaped your notice because you seem to know anything about football history.Did Spain win it in 66 .No.Only 1 in 12 teams have gone on to win the World Cup after winning the Euros championship and that was Germany and they had already won the World Cup already.



Now as i said the Euros is a different comp,but it does prove the PLAYERS have a winning mentality.
Not sure where you got the poor defence from,dont look any worse than the other main contenders to me,but you are of course entitled to your opinion.Torres is in the squad so i presume he is fit,if he is struggling they can still play Villa up top on his own with support from the best Midfield around(dont think we can argue with that)as they often have in the past.
I am not saying they are perfect or certs to win,and yes you can pick holes,as you can with any of the teams!!
You fancy Brazil,i fancy Spain-fair enough i would think.
Not a lemming mate,just someone who thinks Spain will win the WC.


No one is saying you are a lemming, just that your reasoning leaves a lot to be desired.

buddeliea Joined: 19 Mar 04
Replies: 696 12 Jun 10 06:48   


Well said Panther,pretty much what i have been trying to do,just dont like the patronising personal comments,really no need for it


If you are so easily offended I don't think debating forums are  the place for you.This is nothing compared to some debates. When you have been told to foad or that your a half wit, dim wit or had emails saying horrible things about your Mother then you know that people are getting personal.

sj Joined: 16 Nov 02
Replies: 6163 13 Jun 10 20:37   


I take it France shouldnt of won it in 1998 then? To the bloke who said "the USA stuffed them". I suggest getting a video of the game

France won because they were playing at home. Same reason England won in 66.I didn't say the USA stuffed them. That's you paraphrasing. The USA didn't beat them easily, but they did beat them 2-0 fair and square. Not a lucky 1-0 win in extra time after Spain having all the play.

the lay preacher Joined: 17 Apr 03
Replies: 1230 14 Jun 10 08:55   


and never likely to contest a world cup final either.


I think they might make the final, but I expect them to bottle it at some point. May be on penalties. They are crap at penalties.I have backed Villa for the golden boot though.

how would u price up the world cup cristo

How can any fan say that this current spanish team dont have a winning mentality , in something like their last 52 matches they have lost once and drawn a couple of times .

They are the reigning eurpoean champs which proves this team can win a big tournament , they are strong in every dept and exceptional in most , their squad is full of top players who can in easily if the superstars get injured .

They should win it but as I said previously the best team dont always win ,luck is needed on top of all the skill and brilliance assocaited with this team.

To be honest SC,i dont see a Forum as a reason to get personal.Its meant to be a place for debate and comment.If you cant do that without insults and getting personal then its a sign of weakness imo.
Although i do admit a lot worse than that goes on here,and thats wrong as well.

SC,you say my reasoning leaves a lot to be desired,fair enough,no problem with that,i dont agree, but thats life.
You also say i make a mistake in rating Spains Euro success as not as important as Brazils past success in this comp,again fair enough,i just happen to think the players playing now are more relevant than those who played years ago!!
We just disagree mate,we shall find out who is right in due course,but one thing for sure we both could be wrong as well as right.
Thats what this Form is about.

OH

thought this thread might be coming back somehow.
Oh indeed!!
At the moment i am being proved wrong,still 2 games time it may be different,bl00dy hope so!!

Not sure how I have got personal. What exactly have I said?

Long way to go yet, but so far looks like business as usual. Spain under performing and the Germans start playing.If you can't make money from the World Cup it's time to pack up. It's not rocket science.[:)]

Not rocket science,but a fair bit of luck involved.

Don't think they were lucky. Switzerland could have won 2-0. Was you watching the same match as me.Switzerland hit the post.Fantastic defending from Switzerland and the Spanish heads dropped as usual.Same old Spain.Beggers belief how they can still be favorite.Never seen so many big ricks in a market. England and Spain.

Spain also hit the woodwork. Anyway I was not referring to that game,just Football betting in general where there is often luck involved.

Yes of course there is always luck involved, but really great teams make their own luck. Spain have been unlucky for 80 years.When it keeps happening you've got to think it's more than bad luck.Can't play, won't plat outside Europe. Can't plat, won't play in World cups.Bottle it on the big occasions unlike the Germans and Brazilians. Need i go on. It's not rocket science.Still won't go in will it.

Youre off again arent you.
Now take note please.
You talked about making money in the WC not being rocket science,and i agreed its not rocket science and said that their is luck involved though,which you agreed with.I made no mention of Spain or any other team or match.
If you wish to keep going on about how at the moment you are being proved right,go ahead,but you will see that i have conceded that.

Yes at the moment, but I concede that could change. Though I believe the odds are even more in my favor now.

They are indeed,in fact my confidence in Spain has wained considerably.To have as much of the ball as they did and look pretty clueless as to how to break down Swiss,is rather worrying.Tell you what i am glad i aint in big on Spain!!

Lets keep it light hearted lads,its all about opinions afterall,prices probably about right now as to what they should have been pre-tournament

Sunset Cristo Joined: 21 Jul 07
Replies: 1211 11 Jun 10 13:31   


[b]Ruari     11 Jun 10 10:12 
people question their record int the world cup but what was their record in the eurpoean championship before last time.



Why are you people so ignorant? Spain had already won the European championship in 1964. Guess who won the World Cup in 66? Not Spain. Hopefully that trend will continue.


HOPE. thats the key word here, he wants spain to fail to back up his own arrogance. lets hope the spanish put his overwhelming ego in it's rightful place, in the dirt [;)]

The Euro Championship  is completely different tournament to the World Cup. Who wins it has no bearing on who is going to win the World Cup.Do some research? You might learn something.

I think Spain are going to get as far as the final at least.  Somewhere along the line I got 5.8 (to win the WC) and am happy with that price

Wondered if this thread would turn up again.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing,although some of us knew that Spain deserved to be favs.They just had to prove it,and after the 1st game i did wonder if they would,but confidence has been justified.
Only bet i had was Spain and Villa top scorer,still have a fair chance of that,but Dutch will be tough to crack.

Sunset Cristo Joined: 21 Jul 07
Replies: 1214 11 Jun 10 21:36   


buddeliea Joined: 19 Mar 04
Replies: 641 11 Jun 10 19:08   


I really dont think past world cups will have any bearing on this years,


This is laughable. Why would you think such a silly thing?


and i certainly dont think Spain are short of belief and confidence.
Of course Brazil have a fair chance of winning,so do a few others,i just happen to think Spains chances are better,cos imo they have better players,and i defy anyone to prove to me otherwise!! 

Oh right it's all about who has the best players. You've got a lot to learn.

When you off to soccer school SC ???   PMSL