Classic chart pattern...

Pretty decent employment report.

Looks like you could be in serious trouble Debt! Good luck today, looks like you will need it!

Recession nearly over!

chisel - Looks like you could be in serious trouble Debt!

---------------

ive warned u. taking pleasure at others misfortunes, is not a good thing to do. gloating is not big and not clever.

karma is a strange a creepy thing. if u get a spate of mortgage applications fall out of bed soon, the blame may not lie with the banks or the customers credit ratings - it may lie closer to home.

mind how u go, boy.

Debt - I think we might agree on a lot of the fundamentals, but I reckon the US dollar index has just broken down significantly, which could mean that we have just entered the next stage of the crack up boom.

Watch your shorts on the indices.

Cue a rally in the dollar.

I will say one thing.."earnings"..

Becoming more like an 'Allo 'Allo character every with every minute that passes.

Hello Mrs Robinson ?

Btw**iness does not become you Chisel.
I prefer your alternative look of being a bruised and battered and misunderstood optimist.

YLB
Agreed ! I feel like I am waking from a coma!

Nice for the boot to be on the other foot. Hilarious how all the inflationists, doom mongers, house price Know it alls have diasappeared from this site. They are all congregating on House price cash .com stroking each others battered egos!! At least I hope it is their egos!

I wont even mention Gold . May wait a few weeks beore moving onto that one!

How will I sleep at night?

Well, Chisel. As long as you're still around when the sh*t really hits the fan later this year.

I prefer your alternative look of being a bruised and battered and misunderstood optimist.

Agreed , its more of a 'peoples' look...

Owls

You love it!

Back to the topic in hand...Today could be another great day for the markets. Can you honestly continue betting for a fall when you sold at 8300! and continued to sell all the way up!

Chisel; they continue to throw the kitchen sink at the underlying problem. How do you know it has gone away and that printing money does not create its own problems.

I must admit where I live, down south, things do not appear to be as dramatic as I was expecting.

But I was in Bolton last weekend. There's no recession there. Its a depression. The town centre is like the Specials Ghost town. And other people told me Rochdales the same.

twas ever thus in Bolton and Rochdale melv !

Melv

There was always going to be big differnces from one part of the country to another. That is what I have said all along. Area of high unemployment will obviously suffer more than areas less affected.

Just been to doctor, who asked me lots of questions. He thinks things are improving, but admitted he has not got a clue about finances! Unbelieveable! Did mention that lots of his patients are consumed with Anxiety/stress regards finances. He asked where they can go for help??

Did mention that lots of his patients are consumed with Anxiety/stress regards finances. He asked where they can go for help??

Did you tell him to send them to you?

You can 'restructure' their finances so that they can rack up even more debt.

of course not! he did get a few business cards though!

Debt Regret apologies for not posting on here for a while but he has been tied up with some urgent meetings at Ocean Finance.

He's also been investigating the possibility of taking out some new shorts...waist size 34, £4.99 from TK Max

LOVL

He has had a couple of minor victories recently though, so it may not be all over just yet!. For the record , I would not mind being short from 9300 . Think the sell off will continue for a while. remember , Debt is averaged in , ! Wonder what the magic number is now?

The bottom line is that DR is not a sensible, prudent trader,
He's a position taker.
He is favouring info. that supports his views, and is discounting that which doesn't.
He's going to be either gloriously right or horribly wrong.
So what?
Who cares?
Hopefully most of us are nervously trading in and out, sometimes successfully and sometimes not.
The best we can reasonably expect is to make more than we lose overall.
But you've gotta say, the market must surely take a breather some time soon, and I just hope I'm safely on the sidelines then.

ylb - Hopefully most of us are nervously trading in and out, sometimes successfully and sometimes not.
The best we can reasonably expect is to make more than we lose overall.
But you've gotta say, the market must surely take a breather some time soon, and I just hope I'm safely on the sidelines then.

---------------

nervously - perfect description. as for being on the sidelines when it takes the breather - sod that, i hope im loaded up short.

chisel - LOVL.

-----------

u wont learn, will u? karma, i tell ya, karma.

My Karma is all good I can assure you!

Better to be long and wrong than short and caught

.

Another classic day today?

9500 an rising? What is the plan now?

chisel - if u take the bottom of 6470, on the weekly bar, 6th march, then the 50% retracement would be up to 9700 on dow. (weekly cash highs of 9650 and 9790)

but there again, chisel, i dont really think yr bothered about where the markets going, its just a question of how much enjoyment and amusement u can get from 1 person doing their bolux, which i find rather irritating and disturbing.

karma, chisel, karma.....

I get no enjoyment from seeing debt lose his shirt. I just want to know what his plan his givern that the market is heading for 10000?

Surely you have to accept you were wrong at some time....Dont you?

chisel - i trade myself, so have to accept that im wrong quite freqently!!! if u get too stubborn and fall in love with a position, thats the quickest way to the poor house.

as ive said before on this fred, the 50% retracemnt in dow, would be 9700, thats where i would start shorting it. ive personally started selling ftse at 4850 and will sell every 50 tix - so 4900 gotfilled earlier. only 2 lots of futures, so far, at 4875. i will sell another at 4950, then 2 at 5000, which i guess wil be the target.

the dow has had a rally since the 13th of july till now of over 1400 (8130 - 9500), on very thin vol. hopefully it will come back equally as quick.

oh chisel has every right to stick it to debt as im 100% sure if their positions were reversed debt regret would be much harder on chisel

anyway, when it gets to 12,000, im sure debt will just average down

Well said.. All these chartists stick together. Debt has been missing in action for some time now. I am a little concerned about him!

im not really a chartist - i just take offence at people who derive pleasure from the misfortune of others.

More carnage today.. Good lUck

the market would prob have had to go to 0 for the guy to make as much on his trade as he has lost now

what do i do now? 25 Aug 12:45


im not really a chartist - i just take offence at people who derive pleasure from the misfortune of others.

Maybe this forum is not the place to be.

Interesting!

FTSE to break through 5000 mark and DOW the 10000 mark. Where is debt. Thinking of selling again I guess

Well done chisel, how much have you made?

Great shout.

I really want to know what Debt Regret strategy is at the moment. Dow could easilyh break through 10000 in next week or two.

Maybe he should change his name to "bet regret"

Thinking of getting bearish here myself - put options rather than shorting it.

Wait a minute....there could be a classic head and shoulders pattern forming on the dow, surely it can't fail....

9630

Still no Debt. I am sure he will be bcak when the Dow drops to 7000 again...

chisel, fwiw xavier is debt regret

huhhh??

how do you work that out blackburn? or are you just upset after the whole nevilled debacle? :D

xav, stringfellow, debt, I'm not fussed how many names you have.

I'm even less fussed about your opinions on football

you are indeed mentally ill.

what the feck are you on about? :0

Blackburn

LOL. Good work!

Very deluded.

Deluded ?

the fact is the Dow is now 9683! and FTSE is 5102!!

Terrible news?

9791 for the Dow. Where is Debt?

What is the plan now?

He's on the football forum but he seems to have lightened up under his new name

and chisel (debt regret) had to eventually realise that house prices (stocks) can go down (up) as well as up (down)

my how the tables have turned

Bit of relief for DebtRegret this week?

He cant be very happy can he. Hasnt frequented teh site for some time..Hope he is ok!

Everybody seems to want sure-fire ways of making money,its not that simple.Who's the guy that says the Elliot Wave is tripe?.In its simplest form the gold price took 20 years to complete a perfect 3 wave correction based on R.N.Elliots 36.7% wave ratio.Its quite specific.
Best to base every move you make on math,which makes movements long-term FAIRLY predictable.NOT neccessarily short term ones,i.e day-trading.

Debt

Where are you ?

Could we see the Dow power through the 10000 barrier today?

I think I walked past him the other day. He was selling the Big Issue, and smelt of p*ss.

After averaging up to a sell point of 9500, but for a stake of about 50 times what he originally intended, he's finally had his house repossessed, and his wife's run off with a Bognor Regis-based financial adviser.

Debt REgret

Where are you ?? Hope you havent doubled up again? Not looking good at all is it? Nearly 2000 points offside now

I think I walked past him the other day. He was selling the Big Issue, and smelt of p*ss.

this is chisel's future , the mortgage world will eventually cull 1,000's of middle men like chisel

chisel - Debt REgret

Where are you ?? Hope you havent doubled up again? Not looking good at all is it? Nearly 2000 points offside now

---------------------

what a really charming person u sound. gloating at the misfortune of others. what goes around, comes around.

^^^
exactly , wonder how many of chisels punters now feel a bit 'debt regret'

The guy deserves the taking a small loss for playing with something has no idea about

He deserves having that loss magnified for refusing to admit that he is wrong

He also deserves the having the** taken out of him for being a condescending pr1ck to begin with

bet he is longing for the days he was selling roast dinners on threadneedle street

AP spot on.

Just like the likes of Grey Shark are totally inflexible with any debate. They are unable to admit that things have changed. It does not matter that it is g€overnment money that has changed it does it?

It has happened so get used to it. 1 year ago I though t the property market was dead. I thought my business was dying, then interest rates slashed, bank bail outs and everything ok again...for now!

I am not naive enough to believe it is all over and that things will return to how they were , but I am confident that buying a home is a good thing, and with affordsble mortgage for teh forseeable future intend on filling my boots

Still looking for Debt Regret.. He is very elusive these days

hehe chis.....pity you didnt buy gold in august.....perhaps others did....and now own there own home..lol.

Crediter

The shiny stuff has been a great investment for many. It is not for me though. I am not one to get on at the last minute. We all know what happens to these investors. Those predicting 200 dollar oil were disappointed last year , and I believe at some stage investors in gold will have the rug pled from beneath them. Like anything Crediter, set your target, dont be greedy , and take profit when you can

The Gold Bull will be over once & only once Chisel announces that he is dipping his toe in the water. Watcht this space.

Owls

That is probably right, which is why I am out! I am still interested to know is anyone is brave enough to sell the markets when 100's of billions/trillions of dollars etc are being poured into the market. If teh banks are fine so is everything else

Owls

For the record this has the makings of a sustained rally.

where are we on this graph please ?

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/graphs-bubble-lifecycle.php

Pablo , what point are you making??

Market up another massive 80 points this morning... Like I said on numerous occasions.. This looks like a sustanied rally and I would not like to be going short given the QE/government interventions

oh for all u chartists out there.

the dec ftse future has left a pair gap from 5143 to 5164, from the 6th nov and this mornings low of 5315.5 down to friday high of 5294.

as has been stated on here, this rally appears to be govt funded. i wouldnt wanna be long when they decide to stop buying.

So you would like to go short now would you ??

Debt Regret was telling us all to sell when the market was 8300. Today it is another 139 points up at 10410!

its great chisel isn't it ?

everything is going up

oil
gold
silver
houses
ftse
dow

roll up for the free money

who will pay the piper ?

when the printers get turned off

chisel - i went short of this around 48-4900 and lost money. my pal, who is a far superior trader than me and a better person than u will ever be, has lost 6 figures trading stox since august. now the fact that somebody has lost a substantial amount of money on a move that has proved u right may give u the horn, but i find it rather disturbing that a govt can print money to chuck at company debt to skew the markets to give a view that suits them.

at some point there has to be an exit strategy. how are they gonna unload their positions and what effect will it have on the markets? what happens when they stop printing and propping up the market?

since kings announcement on the 5th nov of an extra 25bn to be pumped into the markets, we have seen a 370 tick rally on ftse - or about 7% in 7 trading days. in that time, the market has left 2 gaps. the title of this fred is 'classic chart pattern'. go and ask any chartist about a market that leaves gaps - any normal market will go back to fill the gaps.

but these arent normal markets. they are being manipulated with newly printed money, to suit a govts wishes, 6 months before a general election. if u think thats morally right, then that says a lot about u. if u think its a good idea, then yr stupid - because all its doing is masking the desperate situation this country is in.

but what do u care - a long as the false impression of economic stability that this govt is creating, means that u cop the commission from the mortgage u sell to somebody for their 'dream rabbit hutch', built on a flood plain?

Wolsey

I could not give a toss about your mate that risked money on gambling on privces going down on teh back of massive government intervention.

To me , every tax payer, Pensioner, investor , Employer , employee is a winner because they have kept their jobs , their house, their pension is worth more, their endowment worth more, their shares worth more. Everyone is a winner.. The greed of those trading is of no concern to me!

Wolsey
Not every Govt. has an election in 6 mths.
So why are they all supporting stimulus packages ?
Are they all just self interseted politicians, taking the easy populist way out ?
Btw you don't really think Chisel is so selfishly motivated as you suggest, do you ?
Come on give the guy a break.
He has never said that he takes pleasure in other people losing money, for whatever reason, has he ?
He might gloat a bit when his market projections come right, but that's not the same thing really, is it ?

chisel - To me , every tax payer, Pensioner, investor , Employer , employee is a winner because they have kept their jobs , their house, their pension is worth more, their endowment worth more, their shares worth more. Everyone is a winner..

--------------------

im interested as to how u could possibly see the tax payer as being a winner. please tell us how plunging this country into such unbelievable levels of debt will improve the lot of the tax payer - as the tax payer is the mug who will have to pay it all back.

ylb - i think if u scroll back through this fred, u may wish to change yr view on chisel and if he gloats about other peoples misfortunes. and do i think chisel is selfish in this instance - of course he is. without the govt intervention, people would not be able to get mortgages and he would be out of work. so yes, in this case, the intervention is keeping him in work.

as for stimulus packages, i just find it amazing that the economy got in such a state because of over extending credit to punters. so the govts answer appears to be 'print a feck load of money and encourage the banks to lend some more'. they are now manipulating the markets to make them appear to be better than they really are.

its a similar scenario to hearing a loud banging coming from the engine of yr car and turning the radio up, to drown out the noise.

chisel 17 Nov 09:36


To me , every tax payer, Pensioner, investor , Employer , employee is a winner because they have kept their jobs , their house, their pension is worth more, their endowment worth more, their shares worth more. Everyone is a winner.. The greed of those trading is of no concern to me!


^^^^
this needs framing imo ,
proof as if it were needed of how clueless and utterly out of touch chisel is .... pathetic

I think it's a bit more complex than that.
The banking sector got out of control essentially and the economic theory of self governance failed society as a whole.
A process of repair is going on.
I am somewhat bemused that you seem to be suggesting that if you and your friend had been wildly successful in shorting the market, basically at the expense of the vast majority of the populace, who are intrinsically unsophisticated in such matters, then it would have been morally acceptable somehow.
Am I misinterpreting you here ?
Chisel is simply saying that it is better by far for the vast majority of the populace worldwide, for extreme immediate recession to have been avoided by any means possible.
Throwing the whole world into complete economic turmoil could never have been a realistic alternative solution, either economically, politically or socially.
The sophisticated bankers and financiers and investors would have won out either way probably, but certainly not the man in the street.
Do you disagree ?

YLB

Agreed, that is exactly where I stand in the matter. The bail outs have cost the taxpayer but they could have cost everyy taxpayer a hell of a lot more

Lets face it . 65% of the population own their own home. They have probably got a home worth 20% more than if there had not been a bail out.

Most people have pensions, either through work or personally. To what extent has the value of the pension/investment increased because of stimulus??

The majority have benefitted. And any investor/banker that considered the scale of the bail out. stimulus had teh opportunity to bet on prices increasing!

I take no pleasure in anyone losing money, but lets face it you pay your money and you take a chance!

please dont think that i am upset in anyway about losing money in the market. it really wasnt that much. my pal, who is an excellent trader, done his plums. he called it wrong. maybe i shouldnt have left that out in my original post, as it looks like i have self preservation as my goal.

i find it inheritantly wrong that the govt is propping up the market and thus giving everything a false valuation. whats the difference between what the govt is doing now and what stanford did in buying up a place in the bahamas for 10m then valuing it, for accounts purposes, at 150m?
as for throwing the world into economic turmoil - how do we know that would have happened? all we have now is a group of companies, which are partly state owned, who we dont know if they will ever be viable or not. whats the true price of RBS - i read that at 37p it was worth 21bn - but the govt have given it 40 bn.

as for the man in the street - well, he is the poor sod who will end up footing the bill for all this - eventually. the money the govt have given so far - 200bn - wouldnt that have been better spent elsewhere in the country?

Wolsey

That is simply not the case. What cost an extra million unemployed?. What cost housing Another 100,000 that are repossessed. It was not like the governemnt didnt tell us what they were doing.. QE has been explained and anyone that is interested in Finance shoudl know that its aim is to push up assett prices. To me it is farcical that anyone would sell the markets in the face of such intervention. Is your mates name Debt Regret?

Things were horrendous last year, and god knows what would have happened if there was not such massive intervention. Everyone will benefit in teh end. You and your childeren included. If the banks survive, (which looks ever more likely with each passing day) the taxpayer will eventually get is dough back. Toxic loans will become like Evian as assett prices recover

To me it is farcical that anyone would sell the markets in the face of such intervention.

so where did u go long, then?

as for toxic loans becoming next ssns evian.....

lets just agree to disagree, eh?

u carry on putting yr faith in the man who dumped our gold all those yrs ago at, erm, what price was it again?

Wolsey!! LOVL

Wolsey!! LOVL

To recap the only way that you can create wealth is to either:-

i - grow something
ii - dig something out of the ground
iii - take something & add value to it

If you print money you can make things go up price, but not in value.

So for the time being Chisel is right, but for all the wrong reasons. Watch your shorts.

Owls

Thanks for that ! LOL, for now anyway!

me - the dec ftse future has left a pair gap from 5143 to 5164, from the 6th nov and this mornings low of 5315.5 down to friday high of 5294.

-----------------

thats 1 gap filled.

5143 yr next target on dec futures.

Onwards and upwards I think. There may be amazing scenes if the FTSE can finish the year on a high. I believe this is inevitable

chisel is likely correct here barring a disaster. although it is not just qe pushing it up, it is devaluation of the dollar/pound that is also contributing as people dump their cash into assets before it becomes worth even less. cash is no longer king.

I dont think anyones complaining that a million less are unemployed,or that people have kept their jobs and their houses havent have collapsed in value.
But Wolsey makes perfect sense in warning us that its all built on sand,surely no quarrel there!!!!???.
We are all expected to put faith in those in charge and hope they manage to juggle all the balls in the air in these highly dangerous times,remember this,one miscalculation and its catastophe time.
Are you all sure Wolsey has got it wrong?,he's only stating the obvious.You have to admit that all governments are playing a very dangerous game at the moment.

Pipedreamer

Agreed, however it is going to take a long long time before we really know what will happen.

Next year we have low interestrates World Cup, General Election.. It could be a rel feel good year couldnt it?

Actually Chisel we already know whats happening,were getting screwed.For the first time in the history of mankind if you dont work you wont starve or freeze to death,i.e.the rich have less of a hold on you,they cant force you to work.
To make things hard for you they have made sure that the basic neccessities to sustain life have skyrocketed in price,housing for shelter,electricity and gas prices,cost of travel, and to some effect food [the boom in commodities last year].
This forces you to go to work,and there is of course all the useless consumer products that they tell you that you must have otherwise your supposedly at a disadvantage as regards to other people.
Of course the moneys there but hey why give it to the masses via better health care etc when they can "transfer"it into there own pockets via bonuses and use the taxpayers money to prop it all up.
Heard a guy on the radio today who said that he voted for Thatcher because she made it a "free market economy" and that therefore she empowered the workers,so that they could buy shares in companies,[thought you could do that any time before her reign?].
Its staggering when you hear the "man in the street" spouting his surreal logic!!!!

Pipedreamer we are getting screwed, but many have probably never had it so good! Middle England, the man with the mortgage and family is actually doing ok , as long as he hasnt got too mch on credit cards!

Tax credits, family allowance are phenominal. Many recieve them that dont need them at all. What is teh point in that. Billions wasted.

Families are better off in teh Parents split up and mother doesnt work. Mogage gets paid, tax credits paid and it is far too easy. I have a customer who is self employed, pays herself 2k a month and gets over £500 tax credit from government.Becasue she has two kids and no partner her life is made easier. How can you et a bigger tax credit than you would actually pay in tax?

chisel - Families are better off in teh Parents split up and mother doesnt work. Mogage gets paid, tax credits paid and it is far too easy. I have a customer who is self employed, pays herself 2k a month and gets over £500 tax credit from government.Becasue she has two kids and no partner her life is made easier. How can you et a bigger tax credit than you would actually pay in tax?

------------------

now this interests me. let me get this right. yr saying that a single mother of 2 can earn 2k per month and still qualify for 500 cash in the form of tax credits? i have never claimed benefits, even when i could have done. at the time i was single and nobody relied on me. but ive got a tax bill here and we are looking at ways of trying to our heads above water.

i wonder how much longer this will go on for....

oh and the gap filled on the open.

Wolsey

I know it is simply unbelievable!

Another woman who came in. No job, £143000 mortgage with M Express. All the Interest being paid by DSS and she recieves benefits in excess of £200 per week on top!