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How do the Lions win the third test?
How do the Lions win the third test?
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Replies: 163
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Plenty of time to get the draw onside, I do not think that laying it at 21/22 eighty mins out represents value, you are betting that there will be no try in the first quarter, or say a 6-0 lead.
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George Smith's call up is intetesting. Hooper has been outstanding so far and is unlucky to be bumped to the bench
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Must dominate the scrum, hence the powerful front row. Adam Jones needs to be able to play almost the entire match.
Must gain at least parity in the linesout and not lose possession on their throws-in when in opposition territory. Avoid kicking aimlessly to their danger men. Avoid giving away penalties within kicking distance of the posts. That should do it. |
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Dropping O’Driscoll means the Lions have lost their most creative attacking centre as well as their most reliable and hard-working defender.
The Lions’ centres, and the backline in general, have suffered from a lack of attacking opportunities,the lack of understanding between himself and Davies was clear to see. The Welshman just didn’t read what O’Driscoll and Jonny Sexton wanted from him in attack. Defensively, O’Driscoll was magnificent. He made 14 tackles, leading the Lions’ tackle count. Davies? He made five tackles but missed three, including that crucial one for the Wallabies’ winning try. The look that O’Driscoll gave Davies immediately after that miss on Adam Ashley-Cooper said it all; it was inexcusable defending. O’Driscoll is still one of the finest defenders in the 13 channel in world rugby; Davies just isn’t of the same calibre. The combination of Davies and O’Driscoll didn’t work for the Lions. Change was needed, but Gatland has dropped the wrong player. |
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Davies was out of position though at 12 and BOD had offered nothing at 13 going forward . Roberts/Davies worked very well earlier on the tour . Too much sentiment involved in the dropping of BOD . Bit like when David Beckham got the chop
Right call imo |
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Poll in Major Irish Newspaper;
Do you care about the last match in the Lions series now Warren Gatland has dropped Brian O'Driscoll? Yes, it's still all to play for in the series 21% No, it leaves a sour taste that tarnishes BOD's legacy 79% |
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Have you been watching the tests ? the ball has not been coming to the backs, with an average of 4secs clearout (terrible), basically the pack has not been doing it's work. I believe BOD is a better 13 than Davies..... please please do not let Roberts get injured , because 80 mins of defensively weak Davies/Tuliagi and we are up sh*te creek with out a paddle.
Gatland is having one last through of the dice with BASH rugby, with players he knows rather than going with form. I hope it works out, then we win the series  |
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BOD hasn't been in form though .
Yes , i have watched them and and the other games . BOD has done nothing apart from get pinged at the breakdown . Imo his best days are behind him and Davies will do a better job getting over the gain line . Everyone will have different views on this though |
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Imo BOD has been in form (I suppose it's all about opinions), he got pinged in the first test unfairly imo.
He was our best defender in the 2nd test by a country mile, Davies was woeful in defense. The ball simply hasn't been coming out to the backs (especially in the 2nd test), BOD has the guile and hands to work out defenses if given ball and time, his decoy run for cuthberts try in the first test was magnificent. Ok i understand BOD is not a Bosh merchant in attack and Gatland is going with these tactics, but I think Oz are very used to these tactics and are comfortable in defending the Bosh attack. Now our scrum may eek out more penalties than normal on saturday especailly with Poite as ref (french tend to penalise the scrum a bit more), so I expect it to come down to a kicking fest ...again. Anyway here's hoping we do it ...Come on The Lions !!!!!! |
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George Smith back in the starting 15, it's all over IMO
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Ozy
I appreciate that BOD is an icon in Ireland but that poll doesn't reflect well. You either buy into the lions concept or you don't. The dropping of any individual within that concept should be irrelevant to that. |
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Ozy
I appreciate that BOD is an icon in Ireland but that poll doesn't reflect well. You either buy into the lions concept or you don't. The dropping of any individual within that concept should be irrelevant to that. |
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Sorry about the double post.
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Forgot any supposed poll or wind up merchants - lets talk rugby not foozball
Imo BOD has been in form (I suppose it's all about opinions), he got pinged in the first test unfairly imo. He was our best defender in the 2nd test by a country mile, Davies was woeful in defense. The ball simply hasn't been coming out to the backs (especially in the 2nd test), BOD has the guile and hands to work out defenses if given ball and time, his decoy run for cuthberts try in the first test was magnificent. Ok i understand BOD is not a Bosh merchant in attack and Gatland is going with these tactics, but I think Oz are very used to these tactics and are comfortable in defending the Bosh attack. Now our scrum may eek out more penalties than normal on saturday especailly with Poite as ref (french tend to penalise the scrum a bit more), so I expect it to come down to a kicking fest ...again. Anyway here's hoping we do it ...Come on The Lions !!!!!! |
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Eternaloptomist.
Yeah, I agree with you. But I think what the poll does is convey the genuine sense of greivence felt. If Davies had asserted himself in either Test or been clearly the superior player, people might feel differently. There have been stories of Welsh and Irish fans clashing in pubs in Australia also. |
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lots of free money available after the first test JOCI CLUB,
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You're a gas man Ozy ,you little wum.
The ethos of The Lions is not about countries and p*ssing competitions, there is honour in rugby you know. Willis John now there is a Lions man http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01c7z07 |
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good afternoon, Mr Top Notch,
I think you will find that I quoted Big Willie earlier in the thread. He is shocked by the decision to drop BOD and also feels like 'the ethos of the Lions might be slipping away'. As as regards Lions not being about National boundaries, or pissing competitions you are quite right. Those shocked and dismayed and who feel a big mistake has been made form a cross section from Buck Shelford to Will Carling to Daniel Cater to the Rugby Editors of the BBC, Guardian and Telegraph, to name but a few. This is not merely about an isolated group of disgruntled Paddies. |
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with regard to the BOD debate, what I haven't really seen anyone mention is that Roberts/Davies would probably have been Gatland's call for the First Test given form in the warm-up games and the fact they are an established partnership who know each other's games inside out
Roberts was injured so O'Driscoll played the first two Tests without setting the world alight, now Roberts is fit again and takes his place BOD's not an impact player so Tuilagi on the bench is the right call IMO No room for sentiment when there's a test series to be won |
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exactly
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Its not about sentiment. It's about the claim that he outperformed Davies over the course of the two Tests and is the better option all things considered.
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If you look at the try Australia scored in the first test BOD is not where he should have been and comes racing over and does nail his opponent but only after the ball has been passed
... ... because he was out of position Jonathon Davies has crept away from his opponent as quite understandably he feels he may have to tackle the inside centre. When I watched the youtube clip I thought JD was to blame as I did at the time - this evening on sky I saw it again and with a longer view you can see BOD was originally out of position. I only watched the last 15 mins and in that time BOD gave away a pen for handling in a ruck, kicked away an advantage which handed the ball to Aus as ell as being not in the defensive line which led to the try. I'm not saying he was entirely to blame as he managed to get back in time to get a tackle in ... however following this third viewing you can see why JD had moved out of position. |
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U mean second Test, right?
I really disagree with your analysis of who was at fault for the try. A fundamental cornerstone of a defensive sysytem is that you have to trust your man on the inside. BOD was screaming early at JD to drift and he failed to get there. Unlike BOD who did get his man. Take a look at 1.22 of following clip, I would says Bod starting position is nigh on perfect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VttNqKXu84o |
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all this talk of players doing this and that will be rendered irrelevant on saturday, as it has been for the last 2. the refereee is the most important person on the pitch, and his arbitrary decisions will give one side a chance to win by kicking penalties awarded for offences that nobody understands. after the furore about 'interpretation', lets hope the ref has read the papers and awards match-winning kicks to the lions this time. the series would be over if australia( a very limited team) had a kicker like halfp.
i heard miles harrison saying that warburton has to 'play the ref'. maybe he does, but it is preposterous that such important games are decided by someone who should be invisible. the players should be free to play the game, and not have to worry about subjective decisions. |
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Ozy
I suppose there are differet ways of looking at this. Either Gatland has made the call honestly because he thinks that the partnership of Roberts/Davies will give the team the best chance on Saturday. Or he has done so either out of malice because of something BOD has said or done in camp or for some other reason like Welsh world cup building. I think the latter is the least likely, a problem with BOD is also unlikely in my view. Unless there is evidence otherwise I think Gatland has made what he thinks is the right decision based on rugby reasons. He could be wrong and people should be free to hold and express their opinion. However, I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head with your comment. There is a lot of dismay about the decision and that comes at least in part from an emotional attachment which people feel towards this grand player and ambassador for the game. Gatland cannot afford to allow anything other than what he thinks is in the best interests of the team to form his judgement. |
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Well all the experts have had their say. All the Ex Lions and retired players have contributed to the debate.
Joey O'Barton has given his view. itcanbedone /ozydimus has had his say. Time to get over it he isn't playing. This is for Lady Margret The simple fact is that he wasn't playing well enough to merit his place, he wasn't before the start of the tour and that's the problem. It would have been better to give him responsibility for the mid week games and help the younger tourists. I doubt he would have made the Test side had Roberts been fit. |
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I've only read a small section of the media. Are any journalists/ex players/footballers supportive or feel that the right decision has been made or do we have a complete flock of sheep who cannot wait to say "I told you so"?
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Woodward has agreed with the decision but says he should be on the bench. The problem is most of them are his mates and it will be hard for them to say anything else.It's a bit like the racing fraternity
I hope the negativity in the press doesn't get to the players. I actually fancy the Lions this week but we need to start well and get a bit of confidence. |
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Very few are supportive, Vis.
Eddie Jones called for it and is delighted (shades of WC final 97) SCW agrees but thinks he should be on the bench. One Direction are apoplectic. |
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EternalOptomist,
Good post. I fully agree, Gatland has made the call honestly. And frankly we will never be able to say definitively whether it was the right one or not, win or lose on Saturday. |
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One Direction are apoplectic
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No doubt if the Lions win anyway, the enraged media will spin it someway along the lines of well just think how much bigger the win would have been blah blah.
Will be refreshing IF the Lions win that some in the spotlight might hold their hands up and say they got it wrong. |
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planetrugby say Lions by 2
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scrum.com say Wallabies - only just
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Lady Margaret wrote: now Roberts is fit again and takes his place (BOD).
Are you for real? Roberts comes in at 12 BOD is a 13 (and still at 34 the best 13 in the NH) |
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I think the Lions will win the scrum hands down and with the ref consequently win the penalty count and hence the match. A dour match ensues with the Lions by 6 - 9 for me.
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That'll do me. I don't care how they drag themselves across that finishing line. If there's one thing I don't want it's all the shiit many of the Aussies will be coming out with if they win. I suspect most of them would be happy to win ugly rather than lose gracefully as well.
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Who are all these Aussies Eternal? The forum is 98% UK.
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Some quotes from Clarkey.
'Wales were by far the better team in the test series against the Aussies last summer' In the last 8 games against Australia, Wales have won 0. 'I genuinely believe this is a very poor Aussie outfit and the Lions are much the better squad' 'The Lions,despite being a superior outfit in every department(bar 9 obviously)' It's this kind of irrational thinking that has seen the Lions at 1.50 and the Wallabies 3.00 when it's basically been an even money bet. We should be thankful to Clarkey for the overs!! |
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Simple fact is the Lions are not as good as Wales. Understandably less cohesive and not as accustomed to playing the way Gatland requires.
Sexton is the only player on this Lions XV who would significantly improve a full strength Welsh XV, and that is mainly because they are so weak there. And I don't think Sexton is over-performing at the moment. The Lions bench is stronger than the Welsh bench, perhaps this will tell. |