capitalist realism

Socialism in China aint working too well.

But...but... we are already living in a socialist paradise. Judges deciding whether or not we can have a new runway, the SNP even deciding that Scottish women will have free sanitary products. Can I have free loo rolls please? I do need them every day not just for one week out of four.
There used to be propaganda from an era when National Socialism was said by some to be the answer to everything and GB was said to be a capitalist-Jewish run system. Hmm, perhaps International Socialism is better, some say it is. Some of us look on in amazement.

Some of us look on in amazement.

It will be more intense than amazement if a truly dangerous highly contagious virus emerges.

I see no reason to be confident that this will not happen.

We need world class health and education for the entire world. Bar no-one.

What percentage of global GDP would you want to go into health care and education?

What do you expect billions of highly educated people to do?

What do you expect billions of highly educated people to do?

I am not that highly educated. Yet being retired means I do not need to work and I am never bored.

"ARBEIT MACHT FREI" is what they put at the entrance to concertation camps.

Highly educated people do not have to numb there brains with mindless labour. Highly educated people are also highly creative they don't need bosses to tell them what to do or what to think.

What percentage of global GDP would you want to go into health care and education? Most of global GDP will be produced by machines which will be the property of all. Commomwealth. Monopolies and rentierism will be outlawed.

A wonderful dream, melv, you could have written songs for John Lennon. Mind you, even Stalin's gulags had a sick bay.
You are right, viruses and epidemics are entirely the fault of Capitalism and I blame Boris for the cases we have in Wales. Disgraceful.

I never said that viruses where the fault of Capital Foin. What's the matter with you. Got a cold?


Now this is a virus. If you honestly believe that it can't happen anytime- good luck with that bet.

The Spanish flu pandemic of 1918, the deadliest in history, infected an estimated 500 million people worldwide—about one-third of the planet’s population—and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims, including some 675,000 Americans.

And that was before globalism; before a  world full of Chinese tourists.

True, I know it can and will happen. What worries me is when the greenies rip out my central heating to save the planet, that will be the death of me as even the common cold can turn into pneumonia if you don't keep warm.

Actually if you lie in bed  and don't move around with the common cold it can turn into pneumonia; it does matter if you are warm. Tt often did back in the day when the elderly took to bed. That's why pneumonia used to be known as "the old mans friend."

https://twitter.com/poplare14/status/1233526694666960897

28 Feb 20 19:36

Actually if you lie in bed  and don't move around with the common cold it can turn into pneumonia; it doesn't matter if you are warm. If you have a cold or virus move around and drink plenty of water.

melv
28 Feb 20 17:49
Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 7,118 | Blogger: melv's blog
What percentage of global GDP would you want to go into health care and education? Most of global GDP will be produced by machines which will be the property of all. Commomwealth. Monopolies and rentierism will be outlawed.

^

Who is going to design, build and code up these machines that everyone will own?

Where is the incentive for people like the guys from Deepmind to work 100 hour weeks designing new breakthrough algorithms if the guy that sits there having a beer in front of the football will get the exact same rewards?

What incentive was there for Linus Torvalds to create Linux. Eh? Eh?


Not everyone is only motivated by greed. In fact IMO the most creative people  are not motivated by greed at all. As far as I'm concerned anyone who won't use their God given talents unless the are rewarded by being given a vast amounts of the worlds resources( which in the first place belong to the common wealth and are actually stolen by the rich)  to the exclusion of every-one else; deserves to die of boredom.

For the past decade, financial markets have been conditioned to pile in every time share prices fall for fear that they are missing out on a buying opportunity. Sooner or later, that optimistic view of the world is going to be proved wrong.
Mohamed El-Erian, the chief economic adviser to the insurance company Allianz, thinks that moment may have arrived. He says the economic damage caused by coronavirus will play out over time.

A black swan event has a number of characteristics. It has to come as a complete surprise. It has to have profound consequences. And, once the dust has settled, people who never saw the crisis coming say that it was glaringly obvious that there was trouble ahead.

The coronavirus outbreak would seem to tick all three boxes.

how does  the rest of the world enabling a secretive state run country become the engine,workshop of the world go down as ,NOT SEEING IT COMING, IF CHINA,S place in the world today was the same 20/30 years ago this could have happended after swine flu,bird flu,sars,etc etc, even stevie wonder could have seen such a scenario coming some day,
3 years of trump sabre rattling with china and a flu bug could derail his re election

its only the greedy west in pursuing money at all costs and condoning,ignoring human right,s abuses in china,saudi etc ,that stops this happening every day

Capitalism, socialism whatever, we seem lost as to what happiness is. Too many on the hamster wheel.

People seem to think automation, gadgets and computers will provide happiness, they won’t.

What happens to gambling in this new world Melv?

Studying form for hours and working out new angles to beat the lazier punter is no longer an option?

What happens to gambling in this new world Melv?

I very much doubt that my descendants will fail to inherit my predilection for prognosticating about this that and t'other for my own amusement and for a little harmless combat with my peers.

anyone know where the money comes from to pay all the welfare payouts, millions of civil servants, NHS and zillions of projects?

anyone know where the money comes from to pay all the welfare payouts, millions of civil servants, NHS and zillions of projects?

Anyone know where the money comes from to pay for  all the trillions in the pockets of the Billionaires.

Yep. US. We the people.

us socialists have always struggled with this aspect - the main aspect really - we hate capitalism but love its rewards

plus all the money that comes in taxes to pay for welfare, civil service, NHS  and masses of money that goes to support infrastructure

where would the money come from if we didn't have capitalism

and where in the world do we have examples of an alternative way without the nasty capitalists

anyone know of an alternative  -  we have come to far to all go back on the land etc in one of these fantasy lifestyles like xr and greta want - 70 million subsistence farmers!!  - mind you France has had a go at it with their CAP supported smallholdings etc

the trouble is that idealogues grab the headlines and try to thrust their ideas upon us

you know - with a fixed aim with their agenda and narrative which must not be challenged

ho ho ho   don't I drivel on - just typing out loud so to speak as I think of all the crazies out

there telling us what is correct or woke ho ho

anyone know where the money comes from to pay all the welfare payouts, millions of civil servants, NHS and zillions of projects?

Anyone know where the money comes from to pay for  all the trillions in the pockets of the Billionaires.

Yep. US. We the people.

RE-tweeting so I don't get drowned out by your drivel Moisk.

ha ha   retweeting drivel after all the one eyed one sided bent propaganda you chuck out melv  ha ahahah

where will the money come from then??

Melv,

Would you prefer to live in China or the UK?

of course he would prefer china but hate the billionaires there

Very few people can choose which country they live in. So its a daft question. I await the old chestnut; if you're a socialist go and live in Russia. Its not just daft its nastiness from people who fantasise about living in a country full of clones of themselves.

melv
29 Feb 20 17:45
Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 7,129 | Blogger: melv's blog
Very few people can choose which country they live in

^

Hundreds of millions of people choose what country to live in.

If you really wanted to live in China get the qualifications and get a job or invest there. Totally possible.

so  when we get rid of capitalism  where does the money come from?

do we have any examples of countries that have ditched the evil system?

money for what

read my previous posts

who is going to pay for all the diversity officers

still have not answered

schools?

'pay' what do you mean,no need for it tb just about money

thats just a big white lie

bin men?

bin men will work in return for accom by gov

what is a big white lie

who will pay for teachers if we get rid of capitalism  which is what us socialists supposedly desire

no mortgage require or vulture funds with thieving rents

teachers will work for the same, plus they'll have empty bins all the time

everyone can work for credits to spend at their leisure

the more credits the more leisure

don't obfuscate

who is going to pay the huge bill for civil servants 

who is going to pay all that money we owe (as a country) when we get rid of capitalism

that's a good one   credits
do you know anywhere that does this successfully?

do you think those we owe to as a country will accept credits

that's a good one   credits
do you know anywhere that does this successfully?
:
A terrific success in England by all accounts...

do you know of any country where this is operating ? not in a small partial  way in a small devon town

who will pay the trillions we owe others  - credits ?

clearly such large debt proves that system does not work

Universal credits is nationwide and a raging success apparently

I've blocked Moisk. If he does not stop trolling this thread I hope you do too.

It appears that he will not shut up until some-one explains the following to him point by point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcGh1Dex4Yo

Hope he goes away now. Otherwise please block him.

ha ha   so he cannot take the critique  are they all like this on here

melv cannot answer to questions

questioning his stance is not acceptable so he shuts the door

how pathetic that someone cannot explain or defend their position or thoughts

ho ho ho    it says it all really

The true nature of money is very simple to understand. Money is debt. If there is no debt then the economy immediately collapses.

This is explained very clearly and simply below.

The trouble is no one believes is. People just cannot cope with the truth. They are addicted to their piggy bank fantsies of what money is. And when they are told "There is no magic money tree" They want to believe it the need  to believe with all their body blood and soul.

"There is no magic money tree" is a lie.

The truth is very easy to understand. Money is created when you use money lent ie created by a bank. When you pay back debts or "save up" you are actually destroying money. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOohhh just watch the vid. Its not difficult.

But you won't will you. Nobody can stand the truth. And that my friends is the nature of ideololgy. You all don't think are free thihkers. Nope you live in an ideology. And you will not watch the vid.

I do not know why I am telling you this . The fact is there is a magic money tree and its called "Commercial Bank Money" and its a magic money tree.

You all think you are free thinkers. Don't you. Nope you live in an ideology.

Melv I am involved in the AI business.

Most people in the industry are working round the clock to get break-throughs and be the first to get things done so they can be first to market.

There is billions of investment in winning.

Millions have been sunk into projects that will never make a penny on the off chance they might make it big.

In your world how will you give an incentive for people to work all hours to make AI that is useful for the machines you want everyone to own?

Here's the vid that I'm talking about again. Wasting my breath though. You won't watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcGh1Dex4Yo

Dear Insider I've already answered you. I repeat.

What incentive was there for Linus Torvalds to create Linux. Eh? Eh?


Not everyone is only motivated by greed. In fact IMO the most creative people  are not motivated by greed at all. As far as I'm concerned anyone who won't use their God given talents unless the are rewarded by being given a vast amounts of the worlds resources( which in the first place belong to the common wealth and are actually stolen by the rich)  to the exclusion of every-one else; deserves to die of boredom.

Actually what happens is that the poor fkrs who write the algorithms sell them to Billionaires who do fk all other then rent them back to us and make mega tons of money and power  purely by having mega tons of money and power. Tax the bstds.

ps  then it is part of what my party has become - challenge anything and you become a pariah  ha ha ha

but where has any altenative worked

where is the money coming from without capitalism

has it worked in any country?

it seems they want to limit it to emotional outbursts  - the barstewards as if they are not humans

so many work for the system and have families and commitments

what is your workable alternative   tell me about it and where it is working

Melv,

Lets say 50% of people are motivated by making something out of the work they do.

Surely in your system you lose the potential of those people to create the practical application of science?

To some extent I agree with you. In terms of scientific progress money is not the motivator. It is pride and getting the credit for doing something. But not everyone can be the inventor.

Making practical use of the science so it actually benefits people needs some incentive. The creatives that make the break-throughs are not the same people who take the tech to the mass market where everyone can benefit.

How do you plan to bridge that gap so the people who do not have the incentive of the kudos for inventing something work to make it mainstream and actually useful?

does anyone have an example of a country proves  an alternative works

I think it worked in some small tribal communities (less than 100 people) historically.

Even then leaders emerge that have more privileges.

I am really not sure how it works with 8-9 billion people.

you just have to be like melv - dislikes being challenged so he puts both fingers in his ears

and deserves to be questioned  about his ideas etc but like a good mugmentum (ex) supporter tries to shut down debate

Thanks insider that makes 2 people who have been charmingly honest on this thread.

You ask.

But not everyone can be the inventor. How do you plan to bridge that gap so the people who do not have the incentive of the kudos for inventing something work to make it mainstream and actually useful?


I think you are asking how do we organise society? Well first you have to have the best health and education system that's ever been invented and every child receives a perfect political and economic education and we organise the society by democracy. Obviously because its so good for society the government creates money by bonds, and investment in order to pay for the work needed. Precisely how this emerges is by democracy in a superbly healthy and educated population.

The missing link is Politic will. And who has a vested interest in thwarting the emergence of political will. Those who want to keep their own exclusive mega-tons of money and power.

melv
29 Feb 20 21:35
Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 7,136 | Blogger: melv's blog
Thanks insider that makes 2 people who have been charmingly honest on this thread.

You ask.

But not everyone can be the inventor. How do you plan to bridge that gap so the people who do not have the incentive of the kudos for inventing something work to make it mainstream and actually useful?


I think you are asking how do we organise society? Well first you have to have the best health and education system that's ever been invented and every child receives a perfect political and economic education and we organise the society by democracy. Obviously because its so good for society the government creates money by bonds, and investment in order to pay for the work needed. Precisely how this emerges is by democracy in a superbly healthy and educated population.

^

No pal.

What you are doing there is spending money made by the current system.

What I am asking is how do you get the practical AI and machines made for your utopia? What are the incentives?

Currently we have kudos for the inventors. Appeal to peoples' ego to get them to work for the community. But what are the incentives to get people to take the science so it is of practical use for everyone if they do not get the ego boost for being the inventor?

anyone have an example of any country adopting this extremely interesting idea?

I come from an era of late 60's and 70's return to the land 'small is beautiful' anyone remember that?

hardly likely 70 million could move to anything different now

TOO LATE

I come from an era of late 60's and 70's return to the land 'small is beautiful' anyone remember that?

hardly likely 70 million could move to anything different now

TOO LATE

Socialism is like a lame unicorn, looks good from a distance but you wouldn't want to ride it into battle.

once the noisy ones from XR and vegans take over we can all go back to the land

all 70 million of us

Nice point Foin. Too many word though. When education is applied.

Socialism looks good.

And its only when people see that we might need a system better than this one. For example when we wake up to threats; like pandemics; that the face everyone on the planet. Only then will people begin to think we'd better have a system designed for the health and education of all. Rather than maintaining the mega-tons of money and power that the rich have stolen from the common wealth.

so where is this system operating I would like to know

my party's representatives (supposedly socialist) can't even keep their noses out of the trough let alone take us to a socialist utopia

and melv is now an avowed supporter of starmer who will take us further away from change

he switched from corbyn to starmer in a flash when it got hot in the kitchen
and has no responses to criticism or intellectual debate

good luck with that

The second point is the crux of the matter. If we adopt it we will destroy our economy and ourselves. We are on the brink with the green agenda which is socialism by the back door, essentially destroy the economy with nothing to take its place. I will not be around to suffer but I fear for the future of millions.

anyone aware of who is the center of xr  -  the group 'rising up' is one

committed to collapsing capitalism

useful tools all these XR demos

Our politicians have gone much too far along that route writing crazy targets into law and to hell with the consequences. I hope that within another decade they will see through the lunacy and quietly draw back from the brink.

on the other side what happens when the boris project fails

they are not even going to do anything about the grooming, sharia creep and immigration

let alone borrowing their way out of trouble and zillions on hs2 when the basic rail services are not up to it

I do not have a blinkered view like the progressives on her have

I'm not too bothered about HS2, we need more capacity on that stretch and when its been up and running for a while we will wonder how we managed without it. It would be cheaper to build a standard railway  but they have to do something. The other problems you mention are intractable so won't be tackled in any meaningful way you can be sure of that.

how much are they paying for the land you have in the way of hs2 

I know you for what a sell out you are ho ho !!
ps it runs near us as well

locals not happy with the state of the roads as they dig up the countryside

you should be with us Xr and greta out in the tree camps stopping them

hehe

It will be an electric railway passing near to Birmingham airport at Solihull. We are not allowed to build runways now so perhaps we should use the ones we have. A Greta proof project as long as the windmills keep on turning.

Fair play Melv,a powerful thread.

I can't copy and paste,pity, this is the reality and not what you are getting told.

Google dr daniele  macchini suedtirolnews,(it has german headline,google translate.)

Capitalism collapsed today. Again.

  And it had not recovered from the last collapse in 2008. Which is why fascism is on the rise as capitalism blames its failures on "immigrations" "muslims" and any soft weak scapegoats that it can blame its failures on


The capitalist world is is run by two clowns.

Today will go down in history as Black Monday.

Loosing that election could have been the slickest move socialism ever made. The people with blood on their hands are in power for all to see. Caught red handed.

Thanks Giggolo.

Number of beds per 1000

****  13.5
RUS  8.05
GER  8.0
HUN  7.O2
CZE  6.63
POL  6.62
FRA  5.98
BEL  5.76
LUX  4.66
SWI  4.53
CHI  4.34
GRE  4.21
NOR  3.6
POR  3.39
NETH  3.32
FIN  3.28
ITA  3.18
SPA  2.97
IRE  2.96
USA  2.77
DEN  2.61
UK  2.54

Source: OECD