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From November 24th the way we award Player Points will change. After this date Player Points will be awarded equally for both Sit ‘n’ Go/Multi Table Tournament and Cash/Ring game play at the rate of 3.6 Player Points per $1 paid in fees or $1 paid in rake.
After this change you will still enjoy all of the same generous rewards from the Player’s Club as before, including up to 40% Value Back on your monthly activity.
From 24th November 2011, Players Points will be awarded as follows:
• Cash/Ring Games: 3.6 Players Points are awarded according to the Essence model for every $1 of rake paid
• Sit 'n' Go Tournaments: 3.6 Players Points are awarded for every $1 paid in fee
• Multi Table Tournaments: 3.6 Players Points are awarded for every $1 paid in fee
N.B. Player Points should not be confused with Betfair Points. You will continue to earn 4 Betfair Points for every Player Point earned on poker, however, Betfair Points will not count towards your poker monthly loyalty reward but will lower your commission on the betting exchange.
As always we are keen to get your thoughts so please leave your comments below.
After this change you will still enjoy all of the same generous rewards from the Player’s Club as before, including up to 40% Value Back on your monthly activity.
From 24th November 2011, Players Points will be awarded as follows:
• Cash/Ring Games: 3.6 Players Points are awarded according to the Essence model for every $1 of rake paid
• Sit 'n' Go Tournaments: 3.6 Players Points are awarded for every $1 paid in fee
• Multi Table Tournaments: 3.6 Players Points are awarded for every $1 paid in fee
N.B. Player Points should not be confused with Betfair Points. You will continue to earn 4 Betfair Points for every Player Point earned on poker, however, Betfair Points will not count towards your poker monthly loyalty reward but will lower your commission on the betting exchange.
As always we are keen to get your thoughts so please leave your comments below.
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No STT leaderboard updates for over a week,poker points excluded from prize mountain, and now getting less rake. Is there any good news for STT players, given we already pay the highest entry fees in the Western World ?
Would you please explain how will I get
"the same generous rewards from the Player’s Club as before, including up to 40% Value Back on your monthly activity" ??
Is there any change planned for the store points? As a STT player I'm supposed to get less Player Points for the same monthly rake generated, respectively I'll get less Store points. So it looks like I'll receive arround 28% less Value back/rake back.
Please, explain if I'm wrong. But now it looks to me that BF just decreases the value back for the MTT/STT players and I don't think I'll stay here after 24th if it's so.
"the same generous rewards from the Player’s Club as before, including up to 40% Value Back on your monthly activity" ??
Is there any change planned for the store points? As a STT player I'm supposed to get less Player Points for the same monthly rake generated, respectively I'll get less Store points. So it looks like I'll receive arround 28% less Value back/rake back.
Please, explain if I'm wrong. But now it looks to me that BF just decreases the value back for the MTT/STT players and I don't think I'll stay here after 24th if it's so.
What I will say in their defence, is that everytime I think BF must have finally run out of sticks with which to beat us, they always seem to find another one. 
You also have to admire the barefaced cheek of any company posting a thread stating LEADERBOARD ISSUES RESOLVED about a problem that has already gone on for a week, and then state :
"We are currently compiling the data for last week’s leaderboard which will be published on Monday morning at the latest, if not much sooner."
I'd say that was "still being worked on" rather than resolved.
"We are currently compiling the data for last week’s leaderboard which will be published on Monday morning at the latest, if not much sooner."
I'd say that was "still being worked on" rather than resolved.
cant wait to see howhaidut willget an answer revealing him still getting 40% value back after the forcoming reduction.
to b honest be4 this reduction, i couldnt really see how any1 got asmuch as 40% in the players club.
to b honest be4 this reduction, i couldnt really see how any1 got asmuch as 40% in the players club.
Its not all bad news thankfully. I was pondering my prize mountain target earlier today, and calculated that to win a television I would have to spend twenty five thousand pounds in a month sports betting.
I was initially despondent as I do not have a spare £25k to 5punk on the horses.
Then I remembered, funnily enough while despondently sitting in my living room watching sport, that I ALREADY HAVE A TELEVISION !!!
Hey Presto...problem solved.
I was initially despondent as I do not have a spare £25k to 5punk on the horses.
Then I remembered, funnily enough while despondently sitting in my living room watching sport, that I ALREADY HAVE A TELEVISION !!!
Hey Presto...problem solved.
LOL CHIPfire...your a funny man.....
Thank you support,yet again you have outdone yourself-your the Greatist
Thank you support,yet again you have outdone yourself-your the Greatist
MONEY400
19 Nov 11 09:29
Joined:
12 Jan 11
| Topic/replies: 33 | Blogger: MONEY400's blog
LOL CHIPfire...your a funny man.....
Thank you support,yet again you have outdone yourself-your the GreatistLaugh
Which is why I said he's the perfect person to go to BF towers on punters behalf.
Unlike the other 'sarcastic, fence sitting, I love BF person'.
If you all still can't see everything he does and says is for his own ends then I am blind or daft.
Keep up the good and FAIR and NEUTRAL work Chip.
19 Nov 11 09:29
Joined:
12 Jan 11
| Topic/replies: 33 | Blogger: MONEY400's blog
LOL CHIPfire...your a funny man.....
Thank you support,yet again you have outdone yourself-your the GreatistLaugh
Which is why I said he's the perfect person to go to BF towers on punters behalf.
Unlike the other 'sarcastic, fence sitting, I love BF person'.
If you all still can't see everything he does and says is for his own ends then I am blind or daft.
Keep up the good and FAIR and NEUTRAL work Chip.
Why should tournament players get more player points than cash game players? Its just a question. I would be annoyed if i was a tounrnamnet player, nobody likes having anything taken away from them.
Why should tournament players get more player points than cash game players? Its just a question. I would be annoyed if i was a tounrnamnet player, nobody likes having anything taken away from them.
Because cash players only pay 5% rake while tournament players are effectively paying 9.1% rake.
Really would be good if you could use your points for something.
Get rakeback. Looks like even less of a deal for customers reading this first before putting money in.
Nice to know that could use it to lower my commission if I bothered to bet.
Have you considered allowing to use it for playing poker - buying into MTTs/SnGs/Cash Games?
Just a thought.
Get rakeback. Looks like even less of a deal for customers reading this first before putting money in.
Nice to know that could use it to lower my commission if I bothered to bet.
Have you considered allowing to use it for playing poker - buying into MTTs/SnGs/Cash Games?
Just a thought.
Its a fair point Godfather. A similar point was raised by the Trades Unions a good few years ago on behalf of their members.
They went to the Government of the day and argued that it was unfair that blokes in the public sector had to work till they were 65 to get a pension, wheras women could take theirs at 60.
The Governemnt agreed that it was discriminatory and indeed an outrage that men had to work 5 years longer and promised to change the law immediately.
" Hurrah ! " cried the unions, " A victory for common sense, equality at last, up the workers etc, etc "
They duly changed the law and put the womens retirement age up to 65 an all !
They went to the Government of the day and argued that it was unfair that blokes in the public sector had to work till they were 65 to get a pension, wheras women could take theirs at 60.
The Governemnt agreed that it was discriminatory and indeed an outrage that men had to work 5 years longer and promised to change the law immediately.
" Hurrah ! " cried the unions, " A victory for common sense, equality at last, up the workers etc, etc "
They duly changed the law and put the womens retirement age up to 65 an all !
Charly I'm pushing them for another meet this year, and I'm pushing them for publication of the Essence formula and the Fraud data which they promised at the last meeting.
I hassled them about the Leaderboard midweek, and I also asked whether poker usage had been taken into consideration when targets were set for Prize Mountain, even though poker points don't count this year. If and when I get a response I will post feedback.
I hassled them about the Leaderboard midweek, and I also asked whether poker usage had been taken into consideration when targets were set for Prize Mountain, even though poker points don't count this year. If and when I get a response I will post feedback.
Well, the leaderboard which we were promised this morning at the latest, if not much sooner, has failed to materialise. This of course, nearly 72 hours after we were told the issue was resolved.
It also looks like the entire site has either crashed, or is about to.
Ho hum.
It also looks like the entire site has either crashed, or is about to.
Ho hum.
LEADERBORD STILL DOWN
@BetfairPRManager
Would you please give a short answer.
Does these changes actually mean that the Value back(store points earned) for the STT/MTT players will be lower than it is now?
If so, are you planning any changes to compensate this?
Would you please give a short answer.
Does these changes actually mean that the Value back(store points earned) for the STT/MTT players will be lower than it is now?
If so, are you planning any changes to compensate this?
I just asked internally and got the following response.
Hope it helps
Store points will not change as the calculation has always been calculated on 3.6 for the conversion.
Player points will just be earned slower now as a tournament player.
Hope it helps
Store points will not change as the calculation has always been calculated on 3.6 for the conversion.
Player points will just be earned slower now as a tournament player.
Thank you
However this is not correct. The store points are calculated by multipling the player points with the player club level.
For example, ig you have master level, then
store points = player points x5
So, for STT $1 in rake would generate 25 store points at master level. With the changes it will generate 3.6 x5 = 18 store points with master, much less worthy.
However this is not correct. The store points are calculated by multipling the player points with the player club level.
For example, ig you have master level, then
store points = player points x5
So, for STT $1 in rake would generate 25 store points at master level. With the changes it will generate 3.6 x5 = 18 store points with master, much less worthy.
yup, i think earning 18 pts instead of 25 is called a 'just b earned slower'
to me , this is almost a 45% reduction seeing as getting 25 would take 10 games and now will take 14 games
to me , this is almost a 45% reduction seeing as getting 25 would take 10 games and now will take 14 games
getting 250 pts will take 14 instead of 10 games that should read.
i really need to check my posts be4 posting
i really need to check my posts be4 posting
The principle is still the same however you do the maths though gnasher, and it's just another kick in the nuts for those of us still playing stts.
We are halfway through the latest leaderboard period, and they still haven't managed to sort out the previous one, despite telling us all last week the issue was resolved.Surely anyone with half a brain would have simply pulled this promotion weeks ago when it was clear they were totally incapable of running the promotion without accurate data ?
I feel sorry for BF Poker PR, who has the thankless task of being the messenger,but I do wonder how much more of this gubbins I can take. After this mornings outage I've been spending the afternoon playing on another site, and it does make you wonder how anyone who relies on playing poker on the Ongame Network for their livelyhood keeps their sanity.
We are halfway through the latest leaderboard period, and they still haven't managed to sort out the previous one, despite telling us all last week the issue was resolved.Surely anyone with half a brain would have simply pulled this promotion weeks ago when it was clear they were totally incapable of running the promotion without accurate data ?
I feel sorry for BF Poker PR, who has the thankless task of being the messenger,but I do wonder how much more of this gubbins I can take. After this mornings outage I've been spending the afternoon playing on another site, and it does make you wonder how anyone who relies on playing poker on the Ongame Network for their livelyhood keeps their sanity.
@The Klup who said, "Cash player pays rake per hand though."
That's not a reasonable comparison.
Looking at my stats for this year, I have played 1297 regular STTs with an ROI of 5.43%. I spent an average of 43.336 mins at each STT. I would assume that the average player is a losing player and would therefore spend even less time at each table. But to be generous I'll use a 43.5 minute average as the length of time it takes to bust out of or win an STT.
Now a player sitting at a $10 STT plays $1 rake. An equivalent cash player sitting down with $10(100BBs) at a table where 80 hands/hour were played, would have to have a VPIP of 20% and risk an average of 17.2BBs/hand played AND have every one of those hands reach a flop in order to pay the same amount of rake as the STT player.
It gets worse when you look at the Turbo STTs. There I have 1,104 sessions with an ROI of 3.09%. My average time at each Turbo table is 23.033 minutes. For an average cash game player to match that they would need to have a VPIP of 20% and risk an average of 32.6BBs/hand played and they would STILL need every one of those hands to reach a flop.
It is clear that STT players are being hit unnecessarily hard by this change.
That's not a reasonable comparison.
Looking at my stats for this year, I have played 1297 regular STTs with an ROI of 5.43%. I spent an average of 43.336 mins at each STT. I would assume that the average player is a losing player and would therefore spend even less time at each table. But to be generous I'll use a 43.5 minute average as the length of time it takes to bust out of or win an STT.
Now a player sitting at a $10 STT plays $1 rake. An equivalent cash player sitting down with $10(100BBs) at a table where 80 hands/hour were played, would have to have a VPIP of 20% and risk an average of 17.2BBs/hand played AND have every one of those hands reach a flop in order to pay the same amount of rake as the STT player.
It gets worse when you look at the Turbo STTs. There I have 1,104 sessions with an ROI of 3.09%. My average time at each Turbo table is 23.033 minutes. For an average cash game player to match that they would need to have a VPIP of 20% and risk an average of 32.6BBs/hand played and they would STILL need every one of those hands to reach a flop.
It is clear that STT players are being hit unnecessarily hard by this change.
Still trying to work out what player points mean. As far as I'm on rakeback it means nil to me.
If what you are saying is that I'm going to get a different charge on rake paid from 24th it does.
But no way am I going to get in the game of essence point chasing. Really messes up your game if considering that.
If individuals cannot compare easily to the various sites then the easiest thing is to look for is the fee charged for tourneys and STTs compared to the prize fund. And for the majority of casual players they will look for that. As for the higher volume and pros if the offers are not good to them it is probably because they have a better offer elsewhere.
If what you are saying is that I'm going to get a different charge on rake paid from 24th it does.
But no way am I going to get in the game of essence point chasing. Really messes up your game if considering that.
If individuals cannot compare easily to the various sites then the easiest thing is to look for is the fee charged for tourneys and STTs compared to the prize fund. And for the majority of casual players they will look for that. As for the higher volume and pros if the offers are not good to them it is probably because they have a better offer elsewhere.
BF/ONGAME charge 10% rake on all STT's including turbos, even the D2N and heads up are charged at 10%. So on a 30% rakeback deal, I still pay 7% for turbo games.
On other sites that admittedly dont have rakeback deals, I can find turbo games charging between 3% and 5% rake.
So with BF I pay more per game even on a good rakeback deal, I get poor customer service, a network that is prone to crashing,disconnecting once I go above 3 tables, and which cannot even get a basic leaderboard to function. I also appear to be getting shafted on the exchange promotions because I play a lot of poker, and don't sports bet much.
In their defence however, they do provide STT traffic at all hours of the day and night, and some of the worst poker players on the planet. They also sometimes manage to run decent promotions, which just about make up for the farcical ones.
The uber frustrating thing is that they have the potential to be a brilliant poker site, but the Senior Management still seem to regard the poker side of things as something they have to provide, rather than something they actually want to provide.
On other sites that admittedly dont have rakeback deals, I can find turbo games charging between 3% and 5% rake.
So with BF I pay more per game even on a good rakeback deal, I get poor customer service, a network that is prone to crashing,disconnecting once I go above 3 tables, and which cannot even get a basic leaderboard to function. I also appear to be getting shafted on the exchange promotions because I play a lot of poker, and don't sports bet much.
In their defence however, they do provide STT traffic at all hours of the day and night, and some of the worst poker players on the planet. They also sometimes manage to run decent promotions, which just about make up for the farcical ones.
The uber frustrating thing is that they have the potential to be a brilliant poker site, but the Senior Management still seem to regard the poker side of things as something they have to provide, rather than something they actually want to provide.
May start to play D2N at 10% here with my rakeback if with some of the plays you are posting I agree some of the worst on this planet. Seeing some strange things on stars too in MTTs but nothing like on here.
Some of the easy comparisons are there. And yes may sign up to some with rakebacks and just see.
Even party changed it's lower level STTs rate which were worse than here.
Some of the easy comparisons are there. And yes may sign up to some with rakebacks and just see.
Even party changed it's lower level STTs rate which were worse than here.
I started playing here after a break for the potential rewards (plus an email offering $2500 bonus). In the last 7 weeks I have gone from 0 - 37,000+ player points which is a considerable amount of rake.
Not only are they moving the goalposts and making it on the short term picture i.e how many points you earn per 100 sngs etc. but also the long term picture changes massively....
In effect it would mean adding 40% in real terms on what you need to make Master and Grand Master at the present conversion rate. To make Master after the 'adjustment' you need 19600 points not 14000. For Grand Master 84,000. I feel for the guys who are within touching distance of these levels within a 12 month period but this increase may just put it out of there reach.
Why are they doing this? Are they just plain greedy? Do they think they have had to hand out too many 'freebies' because they have too many players at Master? I would also be curious to know how many players have made Master or Grand Master at present.
I am now going to reconsider playing on here as I think it is dirty and underhand the way they have done this. How can you trust the site?
Not only are they moving the goalposts and making it on the short term picture i.e how many points you earn per 100 sngs etc. but also the long term picture changes massively....
In effect it would mean adding 40% in real terms on what you need to make Master and Grand Master at the present conversion rate. To make Master after the 'adjustment' you need 19600 points not 14000. For Grand Master 84,000. I feel for the guys who are within touching distance of these levels within a 12 month period but this increase may just put it out of there reach.
Why are they doing this? Are they just plain greedy? Do they think they have had to hand out too many 'freebies' because they have too many players at Master? I would also be curious to know how many players have made Master or Grand Master at present.
I am now going to reconsider playing on here as I think it is dirty and underhand the way they have done this. How can you trust the site?
Your Masters points erode month on month too, so anyone like myself that is just over the qualifying threshold will have to play a lot more poker than they did in the corresponding month the previous year to maintain their status.
The only tangible benefit I got this year was the invite to one of the Masters 10k Freerolls. However as 2 of them were held in London and the other in Nottingham, the cost of my transport and hotel ( warning to anyone playing BF London Live, hoteliers seem to be using the Olympics as an excuse to ramp up prices beyond their normal hideous level )meant I was essentially paying a £120 buy in.
Dont get me wrong, as others have testified, the live poker experience with BF is fantastic and completely the opposite of the online experience. But the freeroll, is actually only a freeroll if you live close to the venue.
The only tangible benefit I got this year was the invite to one of the Masters 10k Freerolls. However as 2 of them were held in London and the other in Nottingham, the cost of my transport and hotel ( warning to anyone playing BF London Live, hoteliers seem to be using the Olympics as an excuse to ramp up prices beyond their normal hideous level )meant I was essentially paying a £120 buy in.
Dont get me wrong, as others have testified, the live poker experience with BF is fantastic and completely the opposite of the online experience. But the freeroll, is actually only a freeroll if you live close to the venue.
Lawslaw, whats your alias, may have seen you at the tables?
TB
TB
After reading this thread I am no longer playing on Betfair Poker. We need a mass boycott to get things changed, it is the only way.
I agree
It seems pointless to me to pay 10% rake for playing STT and to get reduced RB
It seems pointless to me to pay 10% rake for playing STT and to get reduced RB
Have sent the following query to the promotions department in relation to Prize Mountain :
I noticed that unlike last year, poker points are excluded in this years promotion, however poker usage has been used when setting targets. This is punishing myself, and other people who use their accounts primarily for poker twice.
My targets for the four levels are : 11,120, 6220, 4580, 2080.
The points I actually managed in October were 469 sports betting, and 2287 poker.
This was a fairly standard month for poker usage over the last 6 months, but my sports betting was slightly higher than normal as I traded off a £200 free bet with Corals on your exchange.
To set someone with an average monthly sports usage of around 400 a target of 11,120 is patently stupid, and a waste of both your time and mine. I have calculated I would have to wager in the region of £25,000, more than my annual salary, in a month, just to win a television set.
Even with my poker points added to my sports betting points I only accrued 2700 in October, less than half the requirement for the second highets prize, which is an X-box. Had poker points been included again this year, then yes, I may have been mildly tempted to increase my turnover by 120% chasing a prize.
Can somebody in the promotions department please explain why you have taken into account my poker usage when setting this target given poker points cannot be used in the promotion. Alternatively set me targets which are achievable and based on my actual spend.
I noticed that unlike last year, poker points are excluded in this years promotion, however poker usage has been used when setting targets. This is punishing myself, and other people who use their accounts primarily for poker twice.
My targets for the four levels are : 11,120, 6220, 4580, 2080.
The points I actually managed in October were 469 sports betting, and 2287 poker.
This was a fairly standard month for poker usage over the last 6 months, but my sports betting was slightly higher than normal as I traded off a £200 free bet with Corals on your exchange.
To set someone with an average monthly sports usage of around 400 a target of 11,120 is patently stupid, and a waste of both your time and mine. I have calculated I would have to wager in the region of £25,000, more than my annual salary, in a month, just to win a television set.
Even with my poker points added to my sports betting points I only accrued 2700 in October, less than half the requirement for the second highets prize, which is an X-box. Had poker points been included again this year, then yes, I may have been mildly tempted to increase my turnover by 120% chasing a prize.
Can somebody in the promotions department please explain why you have taken into account my poker usage when setting this target given poker points cannot be used in the promotion. Alternatively set me targets which are achievable and based on my actual spend.
@BetfairPRManager "Store points will not change as the calculation has always been calculated on 3.6 for the conversion."
You are wrong! (which is unfortunate, as you really should be the one who knows how this works)
I am at Master level in the VIP club.
Pre change, for every $1 I paid in tournament fees, I received 25 store points (5 player points x 5)
Now for every $1 I pay in tournament fees, I receive 18 store points (3.6 player points x 5)
900 player points are worth $10.
So pre change, I would pay $36 in fees to get $10 back = 27.77% "value" back
Now I have to pay $50 in fees to get $10 back = 20% back
This is bad, very bad, whatever way you try to spin it.
You are wrong! (which is unfortunate, as you really should be the one who knows how this works)
I am at Master level in the VIP club.
Pre change, for every $1 I paid in tournament fees, I received 25 store points (5 player points x 5)
Now for every $1 I pay in tournament fees, I receive 18 store points (3.6 player points x 5)
900 player points are worth $10.
So pre change, I would pay $36 in fees to get $10 back = 27.77% "value" back
Now I have to pay $50 in fees to get $10 back = 20% back
This is bad, very bad, whatever way you try to spin it.
So the official spokesman for Betfair is claiming something which is untrue?
However you dress it up, that amounts to fraud
However you dress it up, that amounts to fraud
How about if u use your points for tickets instead of cash ie 900 points gets u a $11 ticket instead of $10 cash, which is what I always do.
Hi chip, would like to hear what response you get from that. I emailed them in the week saying that my target was way to high and if it could be changed, got the usual bs response of; the targets are set with your usage and can't be changed, obviously it's the poker points it's been set to as my sports betting is minimal.
@McCoy Carp "How about if u use your points for tickets instead of cash ie 900 points gets u a $11 ticket instead of $10 cash, which is what I always do."
Yes McCoy, of course I do that too, but this is not the point I am trying to make.
Since you ask, here's how about:
900 store points are worth $11 ticket.
So pre change, I would pay $36 in fees to get $11 back = 30.55% "value" back
Now I have to pay $50 in fees to get $11 back = 22% back
So this is still very bad news!
Yes McCoy, of course I do that too, but this is not the point I am trying to make.
Since you ask, here's how about:
900 store points are worth $11 ticket.
So pre change, I would pay $36 in fees to get $11 back = 30.55% "value" back
Now I have to pay $50 in fees to get $11 back = 22% back
So this is still very bad news!
All I've had back at the moment Bruce is a holding email stating its been passed to the relevant team who wont be back in until Monday, which is fair enough.
I've done some comparisons with a mate who bets slightly more than me and never plays poker,to get his top prize he needs 4,200 points, so there's no way on Gods Earth they can deny they are factoring in poker points with this promo. To be honest I hope I do get some horsesh1t back off them cos I will then take it to the Q and A session in a fortnights time and see what explanation I get there.
I hammered the poker last December to hit my Prize Mountain target, so I'm resigned to losing my master status next month, especially with them slashing the points per game as well. With no proper Christmas Promos (I'm excluding the crap "become a Betfair pro" thing on the 30th December which will be the usual farce ) for us poker players cant see me playing much on here next month.
I've done some comparisons with a mate who bets slightly more than me and never plays poker,to get his top prize he needs 4,200 points, so there's no way on Gods Earth they can deny they are factoring in poker points with this promo. To be honest I hope I do get some horsesh1t back off them cos I will then take it to the Q and A session in a fortnights time and see what explanation I get there.
I hammered the poker last December to hit my Prize Mountain target, so I'm resigned to losing my master status next month, especially with them slashing the points per game as well. With no proper Christmas Promos (I'm excluding the crap "become a Betfair pro" thing on the 30th December which will be the usual farce ) for us poker players cant see me playing much on here next month.
All I've had back at the moment Bruce is a holding email stating its been passed to the relevant team who wont be back in until Monday, which is fair enough.
I've done some comparisons with a mate who bets slightly more than me and never plays poker,to get his top prize he needs 4,200 points, so there's no way on Gods Earth they can deny they are factoring in poker points with this promo. To be honest I hope I do get some horsesh1t back off them cos I will then take it to the Q and A session in a fortnights time and see what explanation I get there.
I hammered the poker last December to hit my Prize Mountain target, so I'm resigned to losing my master status next month, especially with them slashing the points per game as well. With no proper Christmas Promos (I'm excluding the crap "become a Betfair pro" thing on the 30th December which will be the usual farce ) for us poker players cant see me playing much on here next month.
I've done some comparisons with a mate who bets slightly more than me and never plays poker,to get his top prize he needs 4,200 points, so there's no way on Gods Earth they can deny they are factoring in poker points with this promo. To be honest I hope I do get some horsesh1t back off them cos I will then take it to the Q and A session in a fortnights time and see what explanation I get there.
I hammered the poker last December to hit my Prize Mountain target, so I'm resigned to losing my master status next month, especially with them slashing the points per game as well. With no proper Christmas Promos (I'm excluding the crap "become a Betfair pro" thing on the 30th December which will be the usual farce ) for us poker players cant see me playing much on here next month.
Steve the very least they should be doing is reducing the number of points you need to move between the levels. As it stands getting to, or maintaining, Master status to qualify for any benefits worth having is going to cost a hell of a lot more.
Excellent work there chip, did not think of this before. I've got a VIP account and contact so I've just sent them an email about it. Will see what happens now.
Steve10K
26 Nov 11 14:26 Joined: 16 Jan 11 | Topic/replies: 15 | Blogger: Steve10K's blog
@McCoy Carp "How about if u use your points for tickets instead of cash ie 900 points gets u a $11 ticket instead of $10 cash, which is what I always do."
Yes McCoy, of course I do that too, but this is not the point I am trying to make.
Since you ask, here's how about:
900 store points are worth $11 ticket.
So pre change, I would pay $36 in fees to get $11 back = 30.55% "value" back
Now I have to pay $50 in fees to get $11 back = 22% back
So this is still very bad news!
You're right, it stinks!
Got a reply from them today Bruce. I cant copy and paste onto here cos it will get pulled, but essentially are stating poker points were not taken into consideration when setting the target, and it was based purely on the last 6 months sports betting.
So essentially what I will do is sit down and calculate the exact number of sports betting points I have ammassed over the last 6 months,and compare it with the target.
I will also compare it if possible with a non poker playing persons target.
I don't believe for a minute anything they have said, not least because the target is much higher than last year when poker points WERE included.
So essentially what I will do is sit down and calculate the exact number of sports betting points I have ammassed over the last 6 months,and compare it with the target.
I will also compare it if possible with a non poker playing persons target.
I don't believe for a minute anything they have said, not least because the target is much higher than last year when poker points WERE included.
''Following your recent enquiry into the Prize Mountain targets, I'm afraid out Marketing Team are not prepared to provide our customers with our specific Marketing strategies
i.e. how exactly the targets are calculated as the targets are not up for discussion.
However if you can provide us on the VIP Team with you friends username, we on the Helpdesk will certainly investigate this further and re-raise it if we feel you are at an unfair advantage.
Kind regards''
i.e. how exactly the targets are calculated as the targets are not up for discussion.
However if you can provide us on the VIP Team with you friends username, we on the Helpdesk will certainly investigate this further and re-raise it if we feel you are at an unfair advantage.
Kind regards''
thinly disguised as, you are right, we f**cked up prize mountain for poker players but wont admit it , and now its too late to change it.
Quite sneaky stating they use 6 months figures as you can only get three months worth of points statements.
My monthly figures for the last 3 months are :
680
436
384
That comes to exactly 1500 points, an average of 500 a month.
The figures for the three months prior to that would almost certainly be no higher and probably lower due to holidays, starting a new job, and the fact one of the above totals includes a trade off against a £200 free bet I had with C0rals.
Given these targets are meant to be achievable/realistic, and also not meant to encourage people to gamble irresponsibly, to get my top target I would need to increase my usual monthly turnover 22 fold !!!!
Just to get the bottom target, which is worth about 25 quid, I would need to more than quadruple my monthly turnover.
My monthly figures for the last 3 months are :
680
436
384
That comes to exactly 1500 points, an average of 500 a month.
The figures for the three months prior to that would almost certainly be no higher and probably lower due to holidays, starting a new job, and the fact one of the above totals includes a trade off against a £200 free bet I had with C0rals.
Given these targets are meant to be achievable/realistic, and also not meant to encourage people to gamble irresponsibly, to get my top target I would need to increase my usual monthly turnover 22 fold !!!!
Just to get the bottom target, which is worth about 25 quid, I would need to more than quadruple my monthly turnover.
I know for sure that an account with minimal use, say a few 20 quid bets in the past 6months needs 150 points for first prize
However you look at it, incentivising someone who bets £20 a day to bet £450 a day is pretty difficult to justify morally.
They are either unwilling to admit they made a mistake, or they are so unrelentingly motivated by greed they are morally bankrupt.
I'd like to think its the former, because I'm struggling to see how they can justify a promotion encouraging people to bet sums they haven't got, and are clearly not comfortable betting.
I certainly would feel uncomfortable sitting amiably round a table with people who would dream up such a promotion.
They are either unwilling to admit they made a mistake, or they are so unrelentingly motivated by greed they are morally bankrupt.
I'd like to think its the former, because I'm struggling to see how they can justify a promotion encouraging people to bet sums they haven't got, and are clearly not comfortable betting.
I certainly would feel uncomfortable sitting amiably round a table with people who would dream up such a promotion.
Hope you can bring it up in the Q&A, free prizes for the trauma IMO haha
Why do you stay loyal to Betfair? The promos are a joke, the software is a joke, they themselves are a joke! The community feel went when they ditched the last software. They really could'nt give a toss what yourself or anybody thinks or says about what you would like to see or any ideas you have. If i wee you Chip, i wouldnt bother going to that QnA session, you know deep down your wasting your time. I can honestly say I havent played here for a few months now, Im either on Stars who are a 'proper' poker site or im on Carbon because its value city there. Do yourself a favour, because you are obviously a good poker player, and go to a proper site which will cater for your needs and also where they take colluding very seriously.
Really confused now. I get rakeback does this mean I'm better or worse off or does this change do nothing for me?
Secondly, as I now have no incentive to bet - confusion about Prize Mountain (poker points not counting and if i bet zero in a month why would I want to put this up to $4000 a month on something that I could buy new for a lot less? And confusion noted here from those I thought understood these things - but clearly are saying that this looks like a bad deal all round (which it certainly seems like to me).
Thirdly - do you think that this confusion may lead to regular players transferring out of the poker or even betting account and particularly elsewhere, particularly a UK based on - say at a UK bookmaker/poker site or even say any of the irish ones with poker promotions?
As many of the leaderboards seem to be based on these type of promotions do you think it is not a good idea to have a set of rules, stick to it, and publish regular updates?
Secondly, as I now have no incentive to bet - confusion about Prize Mountain (poker points not counting and if i bet zero in a month why would I want to put this up to $4000 a month on something that I could buy new for a lot less? And confusion noted here from those I thought understood these things - but clearly are saying that this looks like a bad deal all round (which it certainly seems like to me).
Thirdly - do you think that this confusion may lead to regular players transferring out of the poker or even betting account and particularly elsewhere, particularly a UK based on - say at a UK bookmaker/poker site or even say any of the irish ones with poker promotions?
As many of the leaderboards seem to be based on these type of promotions do you think it is not a good idea to have a set of rules, stick to it, and publish regular updates?
I didn't have much faith in the process, but went to the first one as I was elected by the people who voted.
I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and I've given them ample opportunity to deliver. The Essence formula they said they would publish hasn't been published, neither has the fraud data we were promised.
The leaderboard problems we were told would be getting better have got worse. The customer service seems no better, likewise the site reliability. The promotions are still jaded and unappetising, and the one people were complimentary about last Xmas, Prize Mountain, we are now excluded from, despite paying the highest rake in the Western World.
They have royally shafted stt and mtt players with the new amendments to the players club, and the one area where things had improved, the Community Game, has lost all goodwill and feelgood factor, because they have been unable for 3 consecutive weeks to pay out a few quid to winners of their own poker pros quiz. And we are genuinely talking fivers and tenners here.
Apart from that though, I'm reasonably pleased with things.
I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and I've given them ample opportunity to deliver. The Essence formula they said they would publish hasn't been published, neither has the fraud data we were promised.
The leaderboard problems we were told would be getting better have got worse. The customer service seems no better, likewise the site reliability. The promotions are still jaded and unappetising, and the one people were complimentary about last Xmas, Prize Mountain, we are now excluded from, despite paying the highest rake in the Western World.
They have royally shafted stt and mtt players with the new amendments to the players club, and the one area where things had improved, the Community Game, has lost all goodwill and feelgood factor, because they have been unable for 3 consecutive weeks to pay out a few quid to winners of their own poker pros quiz. And we are genuinely talking fivers and tenners here.
Apart from that though, I'm reasonably pleased with things.
Really appreciate what you and HF are doing. Would be good that they can deliver on some items if not all.
As for Community Game no show cash from quiz just not on. Thats something that they ought to be able to sort out quickly. It's been too long.
I may even try and guess a few answers this week without listening again. May even win a prize but would have no faith on it being paid. Still that is not going to give me any incentive to bet on here. Secret Santa is about all I'm going to sign up to.
As for Community Game no show cash from quiz just not on. Thats something that they ought to be able to sort out quickly. It's been too long.
I may even try and guess a few answers this week without listening again. May even win a prize but would have no faith on it being paid. Still that is not going to give me any incentive to bet on here. Secret Santa is about all I'm going to sign up to.
I got the impression at the last meeting that their typical customer is someone in a decent job, who likes the odd flutter, and plays some recreational poker. Essentially someone they can rely on to be brand loyal,keep a decent chunk in their account, and keep turning over money week in and week out. And ideally they would like to encourage him to bet a little more, play a little more, do all their poker/betting business with the company, and reccomend the company to their friends and family.And, if they were in any way, shape, or form competent, those goals should be fairly achievable, given their predominance in the exchange market.
And yet they seem to be bending over backwards, certainly on the poker side of things, to be doing their level best to pish these very people off as much as possible while squeezing the living bejasus out of their pips.
And yet they seem to be bending over backwards, certainly on the poker side of things, to be doing their level best to pish these very people off as much as possible while squeezing the living bejasus out of their pips.
I never seem to make any money(of late) so it doesn't really effect me.Gl all
It is like going to Michael Barrymores for a Pool Party...
You know it is sooooo wrong...
But hey free swimming......free coke.....
What could possibly go wrong?
You know it is sooooo wrong...
But hey free swimming......free coke.....
What could possibly go wrong?
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