Other Sports
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
No one is making a challenge to the GC in the mountains, the sprints (which are always the most exciting part) aren't materialising since the peloton is allowing breakaways on many of the sprint stages, and there are few uphill finishes which is allowing the peloton to stay together and the classifications have been in the same order almost since the start. As a tour this one really stinks.
Show More
No-one is challenging in the mountains? Wait til Wednesday and Thursday...scary looking stages.
at least we dont have to watch pantani go up mountains like a ski lift. at least were watching something real.
Cav sitting in 2nd place on a Cat 1 was the final biscuit for me yesterday. Truly pathetic
the real G.C. drama never happens on the flat stages, or the medium mountains, or in stages where the biggest hills are 140k from home. Do people honestly expect riders to attack and then hold off the peloton for 100 miles in an individual break? Often people hide their light under a bushel in the first set of mountain stages too.
Wednesday and Thursday sees some unbelievable climbs, and the Tour will be decided on those two days. There will be fireworks imo.
Wednesday and Thursday sees some unbelievable climbs, and the Tour will be decided on those two days. There will be fireworks imo.
what a load of cack. i suppose when armstrong was dominating 7 tours in a row on his EPO motorbike that was exciting was it?? clearly this guys seen about 5 minutes of cycling in his life. As for this laughable expectation that the GC riders should be launching mad attacks up every incline in the tour - get real.
tend not to agree with that marychain although you maybe right of course (about wednesday and thursday)...sky are controlling the fractions and the only man who can do damage in the mountains on wednesday and thursday is chris froome....nibali may have a pop but sky will pull him back and cadel just hasn't had the legs all tour...
have to say i love the race but was seriously against wiggins because of the fact he is an average climber...wednesday and thursday may tell us more but i can see a few breaks but neither nibali or cadel have the teams to back them up...
agree about yesterdays stage but it was poor no matter how you cut it and has been an unsatisfactory tour as a spectacle as eluded to by harter
have to say i love the race but was seriously against wiggins because of the fact he is an average climber...wednesday and thursday may tell us more but i can see a few breaks but neither nibali or cadel have the teams to back them up...
agree about yesterdays stage but it was poor no matter how you cut it and has been an unsatisfactory tour as a spectacle as eluded to by harter
I think the most surprising thing about this tour is that in 15 stages not one cyclist has been booted for steroids.
I can never understand the utter pointlessness of starting a day with two tough climbs, only to then have it fairly flat for 100kms, or whatever it was on one day.
I think that I said on another thread that the reason for there being fewer summit/uphill finishes is that towns pay a small fortune to host stage finishes, and big towns tend to be in the valleys and flatlands, not at the top of hills.
I think that I said on another thread that the reason for there being fewer summit/uphill finishes is that towns pay a small fortune to host stage finishes, and big towns tend to be in the valleys and flatlands, not at the top of hills.
Very good point re Sky, Wiggo, Froome, Nibali and Evans. The only man capable of beating Wiggo is Froome. So it has become stale.
Next year should be a cracker with Froome, A Schleck, Contador, Tejay van Garderen and Thibaut Pinot battling it out - and maybe, just maybe, Peter Sagan
Next year should be a cracker with Froome, A Schleck, Contador, Tejay van Garderen and Thibaut Pinot battling it out - and maybe, just maybe, Peter Sagan
yes froome, alberto and andy schleck up the mountain next year, cannot wait for that, there will be no hiding place...sagan would have to have a big transition to become a gc rider but you never know he is an exceptional talent for sure...van garderen is still has a lot to prove and if bmc are anything to go by he would need a stronger team to have a chance.
Wednesday is full of mental climbs. It will be different from everything we've seen so far. The Tourmalet is steep, and at the sort of altitude that Wiggins doesnt like. It comes straight after The Aubisque. Plus there's two further C1s, that are horrible. I think Wiggins will first isolated, then attacked. He probably wont have the luxury of Rogers and Porte dictating the pace by the later climbs. By the time of the Peyresourde we will be down to a very small group. If Froome is going to make his bid for glory this is where it will happen. I predict Nibali will attack on the Peyresourde, and has a very good chance of making up a heap of time if Wiggins does crack. If he does he wont come back on this descent either, teammates or not, its much steeper than the other descents we've ended on, and doesnt flatten out.
Check this out; very interesting http://www.podiumcafe.com/2012/7/5/3134330/2012-tour-de-france-mountains-preview
Check this out; very interesting http://www.podiumcafe.com/2012/7/5/3134330/2012-tour-de-france-mountains-preview
Despite the uphill finish, Thursday's route probably isnt quite as scary but still has three of the toughest 10 mountains in this year's renewal, and will really test the legs following Wednesday's nightmarish stage.
thanks marychain...
agree brutal but do you think nibali has it him to take enough out of wiggins to let froome off the hook??
agree brutal but do you think nibali has it him to take enough out of wiggins to let froome off the hook??
If I was BMC I would send TJVG out early on Wednesday, maybe at the bottom of The Tourmalet. He's near enough in the GC and is a good enough time trialler that it will make Sky very uncomfortable, especially if he's in a group of decent climbers, and it will make them go at an early pace that they wont want to, in order to cover the move. This will give the real climbers a decent chance to make Wiggins struggle late on.
With due respect, I must disagree with you mc. Sky will train it up the mountains just like on all the rest. Rogers and Porte will follow EBH and Knees and (as per virtually all the other decent climbs we have seen) Evans and Nibali will be isolated long before Sky has lost more than two of their 5. Nibali will attack on the downhill and make some seconds ... or break his neck trying.
Froome v Wiggins probably won't happen but we can watch and hope!
Froome v Wiggins probably won't happen but we can watch and hope!
agree brutal but do you think nibali has it him to take enough out of wiggins to let froome off the hook??
If someone starts putting big time into Wiggins, it'll probably be too late to unleash Froome. It might work out OK for Froome if Wiggins cracked quickly and completely, but if he's just unable to keep pace, then whoever puts the time in will already have put a pack of time into Froome too.
If someone starts putting big time into Wiggins, it'll probably be too late to unleash Froome. It might work out OK for Froome if Wiggins cracked quickly and completely, but if he's just unable to keep pace, then whoever puts the time in will already have put a pack of time into Froome too.
What we are talking about hasn't happened in Dauphine, Romandie, Paris-Nice, any stage so far. It is unlikely to happen ......but just might and that is why we will all be watching .... and betting on our hunches.
Having men around you on steeper slopes isn't actually all that helpful to a riders overall performance or protection.
What it does do is give you moral support, allow you not to drop back for water, provide insurance in case of mechanicals, and give you the help you need if you have to be paced back on on the downhills and in the valleys. Sky have seemingly enhanced this by getting their pacing absolutely on the nose so Wiggins has one less thing to concern himself with.
What it does do is give you moral support, allow you not to drop back for water, provide insurance in case of mechanicals, and give you the help you need if you have to be paced back on on the downhills and in the valleys. Sky have seemingly enhanced this by getting their pacing absolutely on the nose so Wiggins has one less thing to concern himself with.
Completely agree; pacing is the thing - they did so much on Teide that they know what speed puts them on the edge of going into the red.
That's the difference between a week-long stage race and a three-week long stage race. Especially when you've been in yellow for ten days. And even more especially when you dont know if your super-domestique is ready to drop you and attack. Knees will be gone halfway up the first climb. EBH will be gone by the first few kms of the Tourmalet. Rogers and Porte will have to do a LOT of work, and they are both going to be shagged after two weeks of work.
I think we're going to see something different on Wednesday and Thursday, and if Wiggo comes through it no-one will be able to question he deserves to win the Tour.
I think we're going to see something different on Wednesday and Thursday, and if Wiggo comes through it no-one will be able to question he deserves to win the Tour.
But the best climber in the race - Froome - is on the lead.
looking at the stage further there is definitely going to be more pressure put on sky and can see action...its just whether like you say can the pack tenderise the meat before the vital climbs of the stage...there is chances
the key is to get sky out the comfort zone and the way the schlecks have put other teams under pressure in recent tours has been pressure from the start of a stage like this...and then come the last 2 climbs wiggins will be isolated...can nibali do it though?? and if he cannot its just going to be froome giving wiggins his wheel and the tour will be over... cadel cannot as he has had no legs all tour and also have the other teams got it them to take sky off the front and set the pulsating fractions that will take bradley into the zone we know he cannot handle...
the key is to get sky out the comfort zone and the way the schlecks have put other teams under pressure in recent tours has been pressure from the start of a stage like this...and then come the last 2 climbs wiggins will be isolated...can nibali do it though?? and if he cannot its just going to be froome giving wiggins his wheel and the tour will be over... cadel cannot as he has had no legs all tour and also have the other teams got it them to take sky off the front and set the pulsating fractions that will take bradley into the zone we know he cannot handle...
unless they give the other guys motorbikes wiggo aint coming out of his comfort zone
Going back to the original question, while I would never miss a stage, this is one of the most predictable from a GC perspective that I can remember. One of the characteristics is that there were so few podium possibilities coming out of the Alps, 5 or if Van Garderen is is let free, perhaps 6. Even last year, which was hardly vintage, there were still several in podium contention and 3-4 possible winners in the last week. Injuries and poor form for Menchov, Sanchez, Valverde etc., plus excellent execution by Sky on the back of some great preparation seem to be the main reasons for this. I hope that Marychain's predictions for action on Wed and Thur match his punting prowess, but I'm not optimistic.
Almost zero drama or excitement to date unfortunately. Wiggins also seems to lack a bit of personality or charisma which isn't helping either.
The problem with this Tour is twofold. First the rider who can beat Wiggo is on the same team. No one else capable of beating him. And second is the route. Lack of mountain top finishes. Cat 1 climbs 60+ K from the finish etc etc
So unless Froome attacks Wiggo then this Tour is going to have a fairly predictable end to it
So unless Froome attacks Wiggo then this Tour is going to have a fairly predictable end to it
guys there's a lot more to the tour than just the GC. and as for wiggo lacking personality - i dunno what yr idea of 'personality' is but it obviously isnt the same as mine.
too many uneventful stages,hope wed and thursday shake it up
I like Wiggo, I think he's good for the sport. Just not convinced he is that good a climber is all. He's pretty much brilliant at everything else
And second is the route. Lack of mountain top finishes. Cat 1 climbs 60+ K from the finish etc etc
Has absolutely killed it Clay. It's simply not worth the bother of attacking (for GC) in such cases. The one that really p*ssed me off is the stage that Millar won (not that it reflects badly on him).
What is the point of including two climbs that would have been worthwhile elsewhere at the front end of the stage, only to have it as good as flat for more than 100km afterwards, albeit with a bit of a ramp at the end.
Has absolutely killed it Clay. It's simply not worth the bother of attacking (for GC) in such cases. The one that really p*ssed me off is the stage that Millar won (not that it reflects badly on him).
What is the point of including two climbs that would have been worthwhile elsewhere at the front end of the stage, only to have it as good as flat for more than 100km afterwards, albeit with a bit of a ramp at the end.
Wiggins also seems to lack a bit of personality or charisma which isn't helping either.
The French actually quite like him, although they don't like Sky much. Probably helps that he's cycled for two or three francophone teams and is fairly fluent.
The French actually quite like him, although they don't like Sky much. Probably helps that he's cycled for two or three francophone teams and is fairly fluent.
As anyone seen that wifi interview after he won the tour of romandie? It's well funny, it's in French and he's taking the piss out of the journalists. I'll try and find a link.
http://road.cc/content/news/57430-thats-entertainment-bradley-wiggins-reinve...
I agrre this is far from a spectacular tour, mainly due to the route layout lacking many mountain top finishes and attacking climbers. I don't expect much to happen the next 2 days either, this year it's taylormade for Brad.
rubbish tour, free contador, fix schleck, find rodriguez, then we got a race
We need someone to do a Landis-like charge to challenge Wiggins 
It might be boring but at least we know that everyone is clean this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Could do with BMC,Liquigas and Lotto joining up and blitzing it early on.I am hoping anyone within reaching distance of Wiggins has kept their powder dry last few days rather than being unable to attack,lots of tired legs by 3rd week and sky have done plenty on the front.Can`t see it happening but live in hope.
I am hoping anyone within reaching distance of Wiggins has kept their powder dry last few days rather than being unable to attack
Hope it isnt the same powder Franks been using!
Hope it isnt the same powder Franks been using!
will be no challenge for Wiggins today it already looks like
Eh? How do you work that out? This is going to be fireworks. Fireworks I tell thee.
Anyone who watched some of the Indurain & Armstrong snooze-fests will know that this is not exceptionally boring...but up to this point..it has been very disappointing after last year....which felt like a throw-back to more attacking riding from the GC contenders.
But it's the Tour...and sometimes a dominant team will take all the drama out of it...F1 style.
The commentators seem excited enough.
Still...anything can happen today & tomorrow. Remember Landis losing something like 8 mins up to La Toussire in 2006...and the next day's stage was just about the most exciting day i've ever seen in cycling since 1986
Shame it turned out to be a pantomime.
But it's the Tour...and sometimes a dominant team will take all the drama out of it...F1 style.
The commentators seem excited enough.
Still...anything can happen today & tomorrow. Remember Landis losing something like 8 mins up to La Toussire in 2006...and the next day's stage was just about the most exciting day i've ever seen in cycling since 1986
Shame it turned out to be a pantomime.
it was clear only from watching that Llandis was on drugs that day (and made me lose my bets laying him 
), as it was proven too late
), as it was proven too late
The use of the word "pantomime" was deliberate.
Anyone who watched him cross the line in Morzine had a pretty good idea that testosterone was in his system.
Still..a thrilling day with Phonak launching as a team [up the Galibier?] and CSC and others looking at each other rather than organising the chase.
Anyone who watched him cross the line in Morzine had a pretty good idea that testosterone was in his system.
Still..a thrilling day with Phonak launching as a team [up the Galibier?] and CSC and others looking at each other rather than organising the chase.
marychain1 18 Jul 12 11:14
Eh? How do you work that out? This is going to be fireworks. Fireworks I tell thee.
Nibali with the help of Basso attacking Evans the only action of the GC contenders, really fireworks
Eh? How do you work that out? This is going to be fireworks. Fireworks I tell thee.
Nibali with the help of Basso attacking Evans the only action of the GC contenders, really fireworks
maybe one of those £5 box of Standard fireworks from the newsagent...with a couple of sparklers & a rubbish catherine wheel...?
If your firework does not light, under no cicumstances return to it and try to relight it.
How many days in a row now have we had a breakaway get about 10 mins clear and it just stays that way. So so so boring
This was what it was like in the days of Indurain - a supreme time trialist who is also unbreakable in the mountains.
though AFAIR Indurain wasn't as much relying on assistance from his teammates?
the idea that andy schleck wudda provided a stiff challenge to wiggo this year is frankly laughable
might have nicked a couple of minutes max in the mountains whilst losing 6 or 7 minutes plus in the time trials.
i really think most people here fail to grasp just what Sky have done in this tour. They've basically taken the successful UK track cycling program and applied it to the road. They have focussed 100% since last year on the goal of getting wiggo to win the tour. No other teams have had the opportunity to prepare in such a meticulous way. To win le tour u basically have to excell in about 6 stages - 2 TTs and about 4 mountain stages. Wiggo has always been a top notch TTer and is now arguably the best in the world, and the team is unquestionably the best when it comes to ascending mountains thanks to their massive block of dedicated training in Tenerife.
Many old-fashioned tour fans will say its boring and they may well be right but the fact is the very lack of excitement comes from Sky being totally dominant and perfectly prepared for the job in hand. It looks like wiggo will win the tour with probably less moments of difficulty or concern than practically any previous tour winner. Apart from losing 2 secs to Froome on stage 6, he hasnt lost a single second of time to any GC rival throughout the whole tour. That is a remarkable fact.
Many old-fashioned tour fans will say its boring and they may well be right but the fact is the very lack of excitement comes from Sky being totally dominant and perfectly prepared for the job in hand. It looks like wiggo will win the tour with probably less moments of difficulty or concern than practically any previous tour winner. Apart from losing 2 secs to Froome on stage 6, he hasnt lost a single second of time to any GC rival throughout the whole tour. That is a remarkable fact.
tbf Dave Brailsford said a few years ago he would have a British winner of the Tour De France within 5 years and i remember thinking WALOFS and just to rub it in he has the first and second lol.Just remains for Wiggins to lead Cavendish into the finishing straight in Paris. Well done Sky Cycling Team.
We all know each other well enough now to have a pretty good idea of how people judge Wiggins abilities relative to Froome, the other GC contenders, A Schleck, and even Contrador (sic). Also the full spectrum of perception on worst ever tour to enthralling (although I don't think anyone is claiming best ever?).
Wiggins can only do what has been put in fromt of him. To now, he has done this with sportsmanship, professional and the ruthless efficiency that we usually only see from German penalty takers. Froome has proved himself to be (at least) comparable and is rightly in second place. The speculation on what would happen in a real race between them has been interesting but I think we have known all along that Froome would always to the team thing and help his captain. The point I have made before is that Brailsford picked Wiggins to lead because of what he has done in training over and above what Froome has accomplished. Brailsford was not contractually obliged - he picked the man most likely to win it; I respect his view, although others on here do not.
One thing I hope we can agree on is the treat we have over the next few years: Pinot, Van Garderen, Rolland, Froome, Wiggins, Nibali, Contador, Schleck A, Pozzovivo (if its really steep), Sagan etc make the future TdFs look very enticing. I think we all know that this one is over!!
Wiggins can only do what has been put in fromt of him. To now, he has done this with sportsmanship, professional and the ruthless efficiency that we usually only see from German penalty takers. Froome has proved himself to be (at least) comparable and is rightly in second place. The speculation on what would happen in a real race between them has been interesting but I think we have known all along that Froome would always to the team thing and help his captain. The point I have made before is that Brailsford picked Wiggins to lead because of what he has done in training over and above what Froome has accomplished. Brailsford was not contractually obliged - he picked the man most likely to win it; I respect his view, although others on here do not.
One thing I hope we can agree on is the treat we have over the next few years: Pinot, Van Garderen, Rolland, Froome, Wiggins, Nibali, Contador, Schleck A, Pozzovivo (if its really steep), Sagan etc make the future TdFs look very enticing. I think we all know that this one is over!!
That would be some team if all in the same one!!! They'd win riding Raleigh Grifters with 3 speed Sturmey Archer (oh God, showing my age!)
Lets just hope that something happens today,otherwise may have well called it off after the time trial.
Been pretty much rubbish in the mountains with only 1 maybe 2 riders actually attempting to threaten Sky.
Great to see brits at the top,but the race itself,rather boring in my view.
Pray that Nibali has the strength to make it interesting today,i will be!!
Been pretty much rubbish in the mountains with only 1 maybe 2 riders actually attempting to threaten Sky.
Great to see brits at the top,but the race itself,rather boring in my view.
Pray that Nibali has the strength to make it interesting today,i will be!!
yesterday's attacks have taken too much out of Nibali obviously
not strong enough,as was the case with all of them in the end.
Froome too strong,and Wiggins pretty much p!ssed it in the end.
shame for the competitive race i wanted,but great for Britain.
Froome too strong,and Wiggins pretty much p!ssed it in the end.
shame for the competitive race i wanted,but great for Britain.
Will say that Nibali at least tried to make it interesting,and hats off to him for that.About the only bloke that got me on the edge of my seat since the time trial.
Just a shame he aint a climber in the mould of Andy Schleck,then it would have been interesting!!
oh well.
Just a shame he aint a climber in the mould of Andy Schleck,then it would have been interesting!!
oh well.
they've basically taken the successful UK track cycling program
PMSL, yep those Brits......Its taken till now for the Brits to show other countries how to be professional, dedicated etc.... ROFL PMSL
How the Belgians, French, Italians, Spanish must wonder what they have been doing all these years
massive block of dedicated training in Tenerife.
Oh sweet j**us, yes those pre-season training camps.......yep the Brits done that first also ROFL
IMHO This tour is like alot of them, strangled by the dominance of one team. Nothing wrong with that i suppose but i can understand why people see it as boring. The idea that this tour is clean is frankly laughable. Schleck who is a good cyclist is caught with his fingers in the till, and still can't keep up with the main challengers. The improvement of Wiggins is justifiably questioned. 32 years old and all his major Road race performances have come in the last 2 years. Ex Part of the Garmin team who are now shrouded in rumour. Even the point Kimmage makes of them getting rid of the team doctor and taking on the Ex Rabobank guy is worthy of an answer.
PMSL, yep those Brits......Its taken till now for the Brits to show other countries how to be professional, dedicated etc.... ROFL PMSL
How the Belgians, French, Italians, Spanish must wonder what they have been doing all these years
massive block of dedicated training in Tenerife.
Oh sweet j**us, yes those pre-season training camps.......yep the Brits done that first also ROFL
IMHO This tour is like alot of them, strangled by the dominance of one team. Nothing wrong with that i suppose but i can understand why people see it as boring. The idea that this tour is clean is frankly laughable. Schleck who is a good cyclist is caught with his fingers in the till, and still can't keep up with the main challengers. The improvement of Wiggins is justifiably questioned. 32 years old and all his major Road race performances have come in the last 2 years. Ex Part of the Garmin team who are now shrouded in rumour. Even the point Kimmage makes of them getting rid of the team doctor and taking on the Ex Rabobank guy is worthy of an answer.
BTW well done to Wiggins; He deserves the win;
I stood in the pi55ing rain in Albi in 2007 and roared him home. No use he finished 4th beaten well. Couldn't climb a hill that year; yet his public utterances against doping gained him a following. We can only hope he stodd by those principals......well done indeed if he has
I stood in the pi55ing rain in Albi in 2007 and roared him home. No use he finished 4th beaten well. Couldn't climb a hill that year; yet his public utterances against doping gained him a following. We can only hope he stodd by those principals......well done indeed if he has
i think its pretty clear to everyone joe, sky are juiced to the hilt, its without question, 2 years v careful planning
KIMBLE, you are clearly clueless. Biometric passports make it nigh on impossible to cheat these days, because any changes in your blood or urine have to be accounted for, and everyone is tested in and out of training. There's probably the odd bit of dodgy stuff going on - not all drugs make you perform better after all, some might help you recover quicker or train better, but there's no mass EPO doping going on like in the 90s.
And if you are one of those that says "but they will just find new drugs they dont have tests for yet", maybe so, but you can tell by looking at power outputs that what people were doing in the 90s was just impossible. The speeds riders are travelling at now is entirely feasible, staying within what has been shown to be humanly possible, so you can tell that cycling is predominantly clean now.
And if you are one of those that says "but they will just find new drugs they dont have tests for yet", maybe so, but you can tell by looking at power outputs that what people were doing in the 90s was just impossible. The speeds riders are travelling at now is entirely feasible, staying within what has been shown to be humanly possible, so you can tell that cycling is predominantly clean now.
yr wasting yr time using facts and logic to argue against these muppets marychain
Facts and logic......years of denial.....then suddenly the sport is cleaner once a Brit wins 
Muppets you say Denis?....incapable of actually arguing a point. I respect Marychains arguement. Well made articulate except for calling another poster clueless. You on the other hand create another post mumbling on like a 4 year old child at anyone who dares disagree with you. Your comments are naive imho. Little or nothing you state about how Sky have won this Tour is backed up in fact.
You think sky were the only team to prepare professionally?
Muppets you say Denis?....incapable of actually arguing a point. I respect Marychains arguement. Well made articulate except for calling another poster clueless. You on the other hand create another post mumbling on like a 4 year old child at anyone who dares disagree with you. Your comments are naive imho. Little or nothing you state about how Sky have won this Tour is backed up in fact.
You think sky were the only team to prepare professionally?
im sorry joe but i just cant be bothered arguing with u anymore
KIMBLE, you are clearly clueless. Biometric passports make it nigh on impossible to cheat these days, because any changes in your blood or urine have to be accounted for, and everyone is tested in and out of training. There's probably the odd bit of dodgy stuff going on - not all drugs make you perform better after all, some might help you recover quicker or train better, but there's no mass EPO doping going on like in the 90s.
And if you are one of those that says "but they will just find new drugs they dont have tests for yet", maybe so, but you can tell by looking at power outputs that what people were doing in the 90s was just impossible. The speeds riders are travelling at now is entirely feasible, staying within what has been shown to be humanly possible, so you can tell that cycling is predominantly clean now.
I rest my case. Clueless? clearly you are
And if you are one of those that says "but they will just find new drugs they dont have tests for yet", maybe so, but you can tell by looking at power outputs that what people were doing in the 90s was just impossible. The speeds riders are travelling at now is entirely feasible, staying within what has been shown to be humanly possible, so you can tell that cycling is predominantly clean now.
I rest my case. Clueless? clearly you are
Is that supposed to be some sort of argument Kimble?
My point is that cycling is not 100% clean. No sport is. But it is much cleaner than its reputation, because you can actually measure wattage and power outputs to see when people are 'overachieving'. Unlike the EPO years, the facts say that this year's tour is clean. Not 100% clean because you'll still find the odd muppet like Schleck.
But the reason he got caught is because the testing is far more rigorous than in any other sport. But then you still get people who dont really understand who say things like "everyone knows there are all juiced up" its frankly just laughable.
My point is that cycling is not 100% clean. No sport is. But it is much cleaner than its reputation, because you can actually measure wattage and power outputs to see when people are 'overachieving'. Unlike the EPO years, the facts say that this year's tour is clean. Not 100% clean because you'll still find the odd muppet like Schleck.
But the reason he got caught is because the testing is far more rigorous than in any other sport. But then you still get people who dont really understand who say things like "everyone knows there are all juiced up" its frankly just laughable.
I suggest it would be worth your while reading this
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/07/cycling-performance-what-is-possible.html
and this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/07/cycling-performance-what-is-possible.html
and this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs
This is the one that deals with the power outputs in the 2012 Tour
http://www.sportsscientists.com/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&max-results=21
http://www.sportsscientists.com/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&max-results=21
So, in terms of what that means for Wiggins and co at the front of the stage, it predicts about 6.4 to 6.5 W/kg
What does that prove. Lance Armstrong put out 6.6 and Riis put out 6.8 on Hautacam according to your firsty articles.......and that was seen as the epitome of dope enhanced performance.
What does that prove. Lance Armstrong put out 6.6 and Riis put out 6.8 on Hautacam according to your firsty articles.......and that was seen as the epitome of dope enhanced performance.
a clean athlete can put out 6.5 W/kg for about 15 mins and 6 W/kg for about an hour (i think - the exact details may be different)
in the EPO years the likes of armstrong were putting out 6.5+ W/kg for an hour or so
in the EPO years the likes of armstrong were putting out 6.5+ W/kg for an hour or so
the sports science guy predicted that EPO dosed armstrong/pantani etc wudda done the climb up to belle filles (the stage that Froome won) about 2 mins quicker than Froome and wiggins did it.
Just as a matter of interest what is the cycling and French media saying about this tour? Are they saying it is devalued and the worst ever because of the Sky tactics or are they saying that what is happening has always happened in one way or another (WIgg v Froome) and it is no big deal?
a bit of both to be honest. Wiggo is quite popular with french media, sky aren't
Yeah i realise that (if Sky were French it would be different!) but just wandered if they say the victory is tainted as Froome is 'clearly the better rider' as asserted on here by you and others or if nothing is being made of it as it happens on a regular basis and Froome just has to do what many many others have done in the past? Is it even a story anywhere else other than on internet forums?
F Schleck was probably doped up targeting Stage 16 but alas Tommy Dopeler avoided detection and won it
"Anglo-Saxon teams like Sky are more organised. They are more pro," says Yves Blanc, editor of Le Cycle magazine.
"Every member has a clear job to do, serving the leader, and there's no room for poetry.
"So, yes we have lost something of the romance of the Tour. For the French the history of the Tour is about people who attack, who fail, who overcome disaster to win in the fog or the rain.
"It's not like that any more - but that's not Wiggins's fault. It's the times we live in."
"Every member has a clear job to do, serving the leader, and there's no room for poetry.
"So, yes we have lost something of the romance of the Tour. For the French the history of the Tour is about people who attack, who fail, who overcome disaster to win in the fog or the rain.
"It's not like that any more - but that's not Wiggins's fault. It's the times we live in."
Yeah just found this @ http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18899902
Bradley Wiggins: What the French make of cycling hero
By Hugh Schofield BBC News, Paris
9 hours ago
Bradley Wiggins
If fans of Bradley Wiggins are fretting about his reception in Paris should he win the Tour de France on Sunday, they can relax. The French public may have started the race knowing next to nothing about the be-sideburned English cyclist - but the more they have seen over the last three weeks, the more they like.
"The French are discovering a little more about him every day," says Alexandre Roos, who has been following Wiggo on the Tour for L'Equipe.
"They know now that he is articulate. They know he is good at interviews. But above all they know that he has a life outside of cycling - that he likes music and British culture, and that he is very proud if it.
"And the French respond really well to that side of him. I know people who are not at all into cycling, but who are definitely interested in Wiggins the man."
James Startt of Bicycling magazine, reckons the French are still figuring Wiggins out.
"He is a man of contradictions. On the one hand he can be charming and funny and full of knowledge about the Tour de France, which of course the French really love.
We like the way he speaks his mind. He can express himself in a way that is shall we say... virile
French cycling fan
"And then at other times he plays this mod monster bad-boy type, which no-one has ever seen before in the world of bicycle racing. So he's a bit of an unknown, but what's certain is that he has character.
"And that, they like. All true champions have character."
People who've watched Wiggins over the last three weeks say the attitude of the French has evolved.
Initially, there was a certain suspicion - nurtured in some sections of the media - because of his reluctance to speak to journalists in French.
Wiggins, 32, was born in Belgium and spent several years with French cycling teams, so he can - if he wants - speak French fluently.
But delivering laconic and (for the French) unintelligible one-liners did not endear him to viewers.
In later post-race press conferences he mellowed. And that helped bring the French over to his side.
Bradley Wiggins signs signatures
Another criticism was aired in a cutting exchange carried out via the press with the former French rider Richard Virenque.
Virenque was responding to a column Wiggins wrote for the Guardian in which he expressed surprise how in France ex-dopers (like Virenque) could still be hailed as heroes .
Virenque (who is indeed a hero in France) said maybe Wiggins should think about working on his own popularity - for example by attacking a bit more often when he races.
It is indeed a common view in France that Wiggins and Team Sky have provided an efficient but boring masterclass in how to shut down a race.
A time-trialler by background, Wiggins consolidated an early lead in the first contre-la-montre (as the French call time trials) and for the rest of the Tour the strategy has been defend, defend, defend.
Bradley Wiggins
"Anglo-Saxon teams like Sky are more organised. They are more pro," says Yves Blanc, editor of Le Cycle magazine.
"Every member has a clear job to do, serving the leader, and there's no room for poetry.
"So, yes we have lost something of the romance of the Tour. For the French the history of the Tour is about people who attack, who fail, who overcome disaster to win in the fog or the rain.
"It's not like that any more - but that's not Wiggins's fault. It's the times we live in."
James Startt agrees that "what might be brilliant for Team Sky is not necessarily brilliant for spectators". But on the other hand, he adds, "you have to hand it to Team Sky for dominating the race so effectively".
It's not just Wiggins, he points out.
Tom Simpson wanted to do things his way - he was a maverick and that is why Wiggins likes him
Alexandre Roos, L'Equipe
"Several of his team-mates could be leaders themselves. When you have a world champion - Mark Cavendish - going back and forth with water-bottles, that shows an amazing depth on the bench."
French cycling fans encountered in a bar in Paris were resolutely of a pro-Wiggo persuasion.
"He is a strong rider, and he also has a good moral side," says one, referring to the moment on Sunday, when Wiggins slowed the main group of riders down, after tacks were scattered over the road, to allow those with punctures to catch up.
"That shows a man of character, but also a man of heart."
Another drinker commented: "We like the way he speaks his mind. He can express himself in a way that is shall we say... virile. That's rare these days, and it's good to see.
"Who cares if he's English! Let the best man win! In fact it's good to see an Englishman in charge. You're our oldest enemies! In any case he looks great, and we like the way he talks!"
Bradley's medals on the track
In many ways Wiggins fulfils the expectations in France of what an Englishman ought to be like. He's seen as stylish, slightly eccentric, gentlemanly, outspoken, and humorous.
Forty years ago the French warmed to another English rider, Tom Simpson, who went on to die in tragic circumstances during the 1967 Tour.
For L'Equipe's Alexandre Roos, it is no surprise that Simpson is Wiggins's role model.
"We had a long talk about it, and he told me how much he admired Simpson for standing up for his Britishness at a time when it was not easy to do so.
"Back then British riders who wanted a career had to leave Britain and they all ended up being forced to fit the mould in some continental team.
"But Simpson refused that. He wanted to do things his way. He was a maverick and that is why Wiggins likes him."
So will there be resentment in France, if Sunday's podium is topped by an Englishman? Not for a minute, says Yves Blanc.
"Let's face it, you came with some great riders, and you may end with not one on the podium, but two if Chris Froome comes second.
"On top of that, if Cavendish wins the last stage, it'll be a record fourth in a row on the Champs-Elysees for him, and he'll be on a podium too.
"We're impressed. These guys aren't cheats. No-one's going to say they stole the race. What else is there to do but applaud?"
So they like Wiggo, don't really like Sky tactics (but have a grudging admiration for them, though aren't Danish, German and even Dutch teams on the 'Anglo Saxon' side?) but don't seem to see WigvFroome as an issue - at least that's the way it seems to me.
Bradley Wiggins: What the French make of cycling hero
By Hugh Schofield BBC News, Paris
9 hours ago
Bradley Wiggins
If fans of Bradley Wiggins are fretting about his reception in Paris should he win the Tour de France on Sunday, they can relax. The French public may have started the race knowing next to nothing about the be-sideburned English cyclist - but the more they have seen over the last three weeks, the more they like.
"The French are discovering a little more about him every day," says Alexandre Roos, who has been following Wiggo on the Tour for L'Equipe.
"They know now that he is articulate. They know he is good at interviews. But above all they know that he has a life outside of cycling - that he likes music and British culture, and that he is very proud if it.
"And the French respond really well to that side of him. I know people who are not at all into cycling, but who are definitely interested in Wiggins the man."
James Startt of Bicycling magazine, reckons the French are still figuring Wiggins out.
"He is a man of contradictions. On the one hand he can be charming and funny and full of knowledge about the Tour de France, which of course the French really love.
We like the way he speaks his mind. He can express himself in a way that is shall we say... virile
French cycling fan
"And then at other times he plays this mod monster bad-boy type, which no-one has ever seen before in the world of bicycle racing. So he's a bit of an unknown, but what's certain is that he has character.
"And that, they like. All true champions have character."
People who've watched Wiggins over the last three weeks say the attitude of the French has evolved.
Initially, there was a certain suspicion - nurtured in some sections of the media - because of his reluctance to speak to journalists in French.
Wiggins, 32, was born in Belgium and spent several years with French cycling teams, so he can - if he wants - speak French fluently.
But delivering laconic and (for the French) unintelligible one-liners did not endear him to viewers.
In later post-race press conferences he mellowed. And that helped bring the French over to his side.
Bradley Wiggins signs signatures
Another criticism was aired in a cutting exchange carried out via the press with the former French rider Richard Virenque.
Virenque was responding to a column Wiggins wrote for the Guardian in which he expressed surprise how in France ex-dopers (like Virenque) could still be hailed as heroes .
Virenque (who is indeed a hero in France) said maybe Wiggins should think about working on his own popularity - for example by attacking a bit more often when he races.
It is indeed a common view in France that Wiggins and Team Sky have provided an efficient but boring masterclass in how to shut down a race.
A time-trialler by background, Wiggins consolidated an early lead in the first contre-la-montre (as the French call time trials) and for the rest of the Tour the strategy has been defend, defend, defend.
Bradley Wiggins
"Anglo-Saxon teams like Sky are more organised. They are more pro," says Yves Blanc, editor of Le Cycle magazine.
"Every member has a clear job to do, serving the leader, and there's no room for poetry.
"So, yes we have lost something of the romance of the Tour. For the French the history of the Tour is about people who attack, who fail, who overcome disaster to win in the fog or the rain.
"It's not like that any more - but that's not Wiggins's fault. It's the times we live in."
James Startt agrees that "what might be brilliant for Team Sky is not necessarily brilliant for spectators". But on the other hand, he adds, "you have to hand it to Team Sky for dominating the race so effectively".
It's not just Wiggins, he points out.
Tom Simpson wanted to do things his way - he was a maverick and that is why Wiggins likes him
Alexandre Roos, L'Equipe
"Several of his team-mates could be leaders themselves. When you have a world champion - Mark Cavendish - going back and forth with water-bottles, that shows an amazing depth on the bench."
French cycling fans encountered in a bar in Paris were resolutely of a pro-Wiggo persuasion.
"He is a strong rider, and he also has a good moral side," says one, referring to the moment on Sunday, when Wiggins slowed the main group of riders down, after tacks were scattered over the road, to allow those with punctures to catch up.
"That shows a man of character, but also a man of heart."
Another drinker commented: "We like the way he speaks his mind. He can express himself in a way that is shall we say... virile. That's rare these days, and it's good to see.
"Who cares if he's English! Let the best man win! In fact it's good to see an Englishman in charge. You're our oldest enemies! In any case he looks great, and we like the way he talks!"
Bradley's medals on the track
In many ways Wiggins fulfils the expectations in France of what an Englishman ought to be like. He's seen as stylish, slightly eccentric, gentlemanly, outspoken, and humorous.
Forty years ago the French warmed to another English rider, Tom Simpson, who went on to die in tragic circumstances during the 1967 Tour.
For L'Equipe's Alexandre Roos, it is no surprise that Simpson is Wiggins's role model.
"We had a long talk about it, and he told me how much he admired Simpson for standing up for his Britishness at a time when it was not easy to do so.
"Back then British riders who wanted a career had to leave Britain and they all ended up being forced to fit the mould in some continental team.
"But Simpson refused that. He wanted to do things his way. He was a maverick and that is why Wiggins likes him."
So will there be resentment in France, if Sunday's podium is topped by an Englishman? Not for a minute, says Yves Blanc.
"Let's face it, you came with some great riders, and you may end with not one on the podium, but two if Chris Froome comes second.
"On top of that, if Cavendish wins the last stage, it'll be a record fourth in a row on the Champs-Elysees for him, and he'll be on a podium too.
"We're impressed. These guys aren't cheats. No-one's going to say they stole the race. What else is there to do but applaud?"
So they like Wiggo, don't really like Sky tactics (but have a grudging admiration for them, though aren't Danish, German and even Dutch teams on the 'Anglo Saxon' side?) but don't seem to see WigvFroome as an issue - at least that's the way it seems to me.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539