Other Sports
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 94 comments are related to the topic:
This is the worst tdf in recent memory
This is the worst tdf in recent memory
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 94
|
By:
im sorry joe but i just cant be bothered arguing with u anymore
|
|
By:
KIMBLE, you are clearly clueless. Biometric passports make it nigh on impossible to cheat these days, because any changes in your blood or urine have to be accounted for, and everyone is tested in and out of training. There's probably the odd bit of dodgy stuff going on - not all drugs make you perform better after all, some might help you recover quicker or train better, but there's no mass EPO doping going on like in the 90s.
And if you are one of those that says "but they will just find new drugs they dont have tests for yet", maybe so, but you can tell by looking at power outputs that what people were doing in the 90s was just impossible. The speeds riders are travelling at now is entirely feasible, staying within what has been shown to be humanly possible, so you can tell that cycling is predominantly clean now. I rest my case. Clueless? clearly you are  |
|
By:
I WIN
|
|
By:
Is that supposed to be some sort of argument Kimble?
My point is that cycling is not 100% clean. No sport is. But it is much cleaner than its reputation, because you can actually measure wattage and power outputs to see when people are 'overachieving'. Unlike the EPO years, the facts say that this year's tour is clean. Not 100% clean because you'll still find the odd muppet like Schleck. But the reason he got caught is because the testing is far more rigorous than in any other sport. But then you still get people who dont really understand who say things like "everyone knows there are all juiced up" its frankly just laughable. |
|
By:
I suggest it would be worth your while reading this
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/07/cycling-performance-what-is-possible.html and this http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs |
|
By:
This is the one that deals with the power outputs in the 2012 Tour
http://www.sportsscientists.com/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00%2B02:00&max-results=21 |
|
By:
So, in terms of what that means for Wiggins and co at the front of the stage, it predicts about 6.4 to 6.5 W/kg
What does that prove. Lance Armstrong put out 6.6 and Riis put out 6.8 on Hautacam according to your firsty articles.......and that was seen as the epitome of dope enhanced performance. |
|
By:
a clean athlete can put out 6.5 W/kg for about 15 mins and 6 W/kg for about an hour (i think - the exact details may be different)
in the EPO years the likes of armstrong were putting out 6.5+ W/kg for an hour or so |
|
By:
the sports science guy predicted that EPO dosed armstrong/pantani etc wudda done the climb up to belle filles (the stage that Froome won) about 2 mins quicker than Froome and wiggins did it.
|
|
By:
Just as a matter of interest what is the cycling and French media saying about this tour? Are they saying it is devalued and the worst ever because of the Sky tactics or are they saying that what is happening has always happened in one way or another (WIgg v Froome) and it is no big deal?
|
|
By:
a bit of both to be honest. Wiggo is quite popular with french media, sky aren't
|
|
By:
Yeah i realise that (if Sky were French it would be different!) but just wandered if they say the victory is tainted as Froome is 'clearly the better rider' as asserted on here by you and others or if nothing is being made of it as it happens on a regular basis and Froome just has to do what many many others have done in the past? Is it even a story anywhere else other than on internet forums?
|
|
By:
F Schleck was probably doped up targeting Stage 16 but alas Tommy Dopeler avoided detection and won it
|
|
By:
"Anglo-Saxon teams like Sky are more organised. They are more pro," says Yves Blanc, editor of Le Cycle magazine.
"Every member has a clear job to do, serving the leader, and there's no room for poetry. "So, yes we have lost something of the romance of the Tour. For the French the history of the Tour is about people who attack, who fail, who overcome disaster to win in the fog or the rain. "It's not like that any more - but that's not Wiggins's fault. It's the times we live in." |
|
By:
Yeah just found this @ http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18899902
Bradley Wiggins: What the French make of cycling hero By Hugh Schofield BBC News, Paris 9 hours ago Bradley Wiggins If fans of Bradley Wiggins are fretting about his reception in Paris should he win the Tour de France on Sunday, they can relax. The French public may have started the race knowing next to nothing about the be-sideburned English cyclist - but the more they have seen over the last three weeks, the more they like. "The French are discovering a little more about him every day," says Alexandre Roos, who has been following Wiggo on the Tour for L'Equipe. "They know now that he is articulate. They know he is good at interviews. But above all they know that he has a life outside of cycling - that he likes music and British culture, and that he is very proud if it. "And the French respond really well to that side of him. I know people who are not at all into cycling, but who are definitely interested in Wiggins the man." James Startt of Bicycling magazine, reckons the French are still figuring Wiggins out. "He is a man of contradictions. On the one hand he can be charming and funny and full of knowledge about the Tour de France, which of course the French really love. We like the way he speaks his mind. He can express himself in a way that is shall we say... virile French cycling fan "And then at other times he plays this mod monster bad-boy type, which no-one has ever seen before in the world of bicycle racing. So he's a bit of an unknown, but what's certain is that he has character. "And that, they like. All true champions have character." People who've watched Wiggins over the last three weeks say the attitude of the French has evolved. Initially, there was a certain suspicion - nurtured in some sections of the media - because of his reluctance to speak to journalists in French. Wiggins, 32, was born in Belgium and spent several years with French cycling teams, so he can - if he wants - speak French fluently. But delivering laconic and (for the French) unintelligible one-liners did not endear him to viewers. In later post-race press conferences he mellowed. And that helped bring the French over to his side. Bradley Wiggins signs signatures Another criticism was aired in a cutting exchange carried out via the press with the former French rider Richard Virenque. Virenque was responding to a column Wiggins wrote for the Guardian in which he expressed surprise how in France ex-dopers (like Virenque) could still be hailed as heroes . Virenque (who is indeed a hero in France) said maybe Wiggins should think about working on his own popularity - for example by attacking a bit more often when he races. It is indeed a common view in France that Wiggins and Team Sky have provided an efficient but boring masterclass in how to shut down a race. A time-trialler by background, Wiggins consolidated an early lead in the first contre-la-montre (as the French call time trials) and for the rest of the Tour the strategy has been defend, defend, defend. Bradley Wiggins "Anglo-Saxon teams like Sky are more organised. They are more pro," says Yves Blanc, editor of Le Cycle magazine. "Every member has a clear job to do, serving the leader, and there's no room for poetry. "So, yes we have lost something of the romance of the Tour. For the French the history of the Tour is about people who attack, who fail, who overcome disaster to win in the fog or the rain. "It's not like that any more - but that's not Wiggins's fault. It's the times we live in." James Startt agrees that "what might be brilliant for Team Sky is not necessarily brilliant for spectators". But on the other hand, he adds, "you have to hand it to Team Sky for dominating the race so effectively". It's not just Wiggins, he points out. Tom Simpson wanted to do things his way - he was a maverick and that is why Wiggins likes him Alexandre Roos, L'Equipe "Several of his team-mates could be leaders themselves. When you have a world champion - Mark Cavendish - going back and forth with water-bottles, that shows an amazing depth on the bench." French cycling fans encountered in a bar in Paris were resolutely of a pro-Wiggo persuasion. "He is a strong rider, and he also has a good moral side," says one, referring to the moment on Sunday, when Wiggins slowed the main group of riders down, after tacks were scattered over the road, to allow those with punctures to catch up. "That shows a man of character, but also a man of heart." Another drinker commented: "We like the way he speaks his mind. He can express himself in a way that is shall we say... virile. That's rare these days, and it's good to see. "Who cares if he's English! Let the best man win! In fact it's good to see an Englishman in charge. You're our oldest enemies! In any case he looks great, and we like the way he talks!" Bradley's medals on the track In many ways Wiggins fulfils the expectations in France of what an Englishman ought to be like. He's seen as stylish, slightly eccentric, gentlemanly, outspoken, and humorous. Forty years ago the French warmed to another English rider, Tom Simpson, who went on to die in tragic circumstances during the 1967 Tour. For L'Equipe's Alexandre Roos, it is no surprise that Simpson is Wiggins's role model. "We had a long talk about it, and he told me how much he admired Simpson for standing up for his Britishness at a time when it was not easy to do so. "Back then British riders who wanted a career had to leave Britain and they all ended up being forced to fit the mould in some continental team. "But Simpson refused that. He wanted to do things his way. He was a maverick and that is why Wiggins likes him." So will there be resentment in France, if Sunday's podium is topped by an Englishman? Not for a minute, says Yves Blanc. "Let's face it, you came with some great riders, and you may end with not one on the podium, but two if Chris Froome comes second. "On top of that, if Cavendish wins the last stage, it'll be a record fourth in a row on the Champs-Elysees for him, and he'll be on a podium too. "We're impressed. These guys aren't cheats. No-one's going to say they stole the race. What else is there to do but applaud?" So they like Wiggo, don't really like Sky tactics (but have a grudging admiration for them, though aren't Danish, German and even Dutch teams on the 'Anglo Saxon' side?) but don't seem to see WigvFroome as an issue - at least that's the way it seems to me. |