Irish Sports
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02 Aug 16
19:51
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Date Joined:
30 Nov 10
Whichever way you look on it it is dramatic and stark.
Galway used always be the jewel in the crown for betting,it has collapsed there as well.
Some of the reason given by bookmakers were amusing to say the least ( Seamus Mulvaney blaming Brexit the best ) but they never blame themselves.
Tonight's a typical example,Charles Byrnes was always a racecourse gambler yet it seems to me that his bets tonight are off course.
I accept the nature of this gamble is different in that there appears to be three horses involved but the first leg was War Anthem and he was a major drifter,normally a drift from that stable means tailed off.
Top Of The Town is the third leg and is now trading at odds on that shows there are major liabilities.
Time has passed racecourse bookmakers by and many of them blame the exchanges but its their off course colleagues have taken their business.
No tax,double result,BOG and some other concessions make them more competitive.
Although the late shows and market manipulation of the SP counter that somewhat.
Galway used always be the jewel in the crown for betting,it has collapsed there as well.
Some of the reason given by bookmakers were amusing to say the least ( Seamus Mulvaney blaming Brexit the best ) but they never blame themselves.
Tonight's a typical example,Charles Byrnes was always a racecourse gambler yet it seems to me that his bets tonight are off course.
I accept the nature of this gamble is different in that there appears to be three horses involved but the first leg was War Anthem and he was a major drifter,normally a drift from that stable means tailed off.
Top Of The Town is the third leg and is now trading at odds on that shows there are major liabilities.
Time has passed racecourse bookmakers by and many of them blame the exchanges but its their off course colleagues have taken their business.
No tax,double result,BOG and some other concessions make them more competitive.
Although the late shows and market manipulation of the SP counter that somewhat.
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Replies: 112
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Different world these days , wildman . Its all about numbers and bean counters pulling the strings . No doubt the guys on course pushing buttons instead of chalking up the odds old style are still making money , but from an on course punter's point of view it must be unsatisfactory .
Did not check the over rounds at Galway last week , only thing I remember is that in the races I was betting on , everything hardened in price, none of the horses I backed were returned at bigger prices than were available all day. And most of the price contractions were close to the off , even the ones that did not win . |
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Another reason is the same bookies not taking a bet , one high profile master of this trade refused me a 100 bet on a 15/8 shot recently.I have to say though there is light at the end of the tunnell for them ,I backed Flight @ 6.2 returned 5/1 sp,so having paid comm if it had won ,I would have been WORSE off on here...
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Good gamble landed with those 3 . No doubt there will be gnashing of teeth in various quarters . Cant say I would feel much sorrow for any of the firms hit .
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The only reason a bookmaker would not lay you that bet wonky is if you were trying to rob a price that is gone, stop clogging up the forum fgs with absolute nonsense.
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Never saw a bookie calling me back after I had backed a horse / dog and telling me I was on at bigger odds , rocketfingers . But often I was offered slightly lower odds when about to hand over my money . If a price shows when you approach the bookie , you should be entitled to get it , provided it is not for a huge amount of money . 100 hardly constitutes a large bet on course .
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Just for interest , what sort of prices were Byrne's 3 early today . Anyone catch on to this early ?
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All here believe Workrider there could be a few reasons for the refusal.
A large wager could have been placed just before Workriders ton. There could have been the prospect of a large wager coming after Workriders ton that they didnt want. The more likely being the bookie knew our intrepid punter and treats him with caution. If it was Rocketfingers tendering the ton the bookie would have to stabilise the Loan Rangers shaking hand,prise the notes out keep a firm grip on his heaving shoulder whilst checking the validity of the notes. |
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14 16 18
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18/1-12/1-14/1,just seen that posted on social media Kelly,not sure who that was with,
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PP apparently had cut these 3 before 9am , which means that very few doubles and trebles would be possible . No bets on any of these races myself , shades of barney curley in this exercise .
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the day will come when there are no bookies on course. hopefully it will the start of a tote and betfair dominated betting scene. thats best for everyone.
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^The tote while it seems to work elsewhere,it takes out too much in UK and Ireland.
Betfair is dying, as pointed out recently on the forum the market makers can't survive due to excessive charging. In smaller Irish meetings often not even a ton matched until hours after the markets are opened,check how much on Sligo's opening 3 races atm. The charges have to go to make the exchange work. Agree that the off course books if you can get anything on at all are miles ahead and are by far the best option. As much as i hate to say it,it took some planning from CB this evening to get the 3,fair play to him on that point. |
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I am not certain Pa there exchanges really suit the average joe soap, with bookmakers offering BOG and of course you have the 4.5% reduc then on top of that from bf, i think you are best off with a bookmaker if you can get on that way. Football there is no contest tbh.
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I agree that an on-course Betfair type betting would be best.
The Tote take too much out. The bookies take out more. The only people who will bet with the bookies are holidaymakers. The result is poor racecourse attendance as the shrewd bet elsewhere. |
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Rocket , I shall not be replying to your rubbish anymore after tonight , I had backed this animal @ 2/1 and 15/8 7/4 with plenty of others and was finishing up when near the end of the line I spotted this clown going 15/8 asked for a 100 was told it was now 7/4 with him I said I'll take that ,he said its now 6/4 ,I said ok I'll have the 6/4 , he refused the bet ..Horse got beat , robbing a bookie , that went out with the grave robbers ffs...
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With Irish racing the exchange is now following the bookmakers and has been for a good while.
Paddy Power i know have critics here but in general they have been quite innovative in regards their off course business. Since this merger i am quite stunned that there doesn't appear to be a single change made,maybe "betfair" themselves are still running it as they were up till the merger,is it possible PP are happy with the way the exchange is at the moment? There was a time when the "exchange" was supposedly going to rule the world so to speak,that train has been well and truly shunted down a dead end imo. |
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Sorry Wonks but if you seen 2/1 and backed it and i know you're not a big bettor why go and back it at 15/8 again? Your story is falling apart.
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Pa, I have no doubt that PP have took total control , under Betfairs watch it was always better, in fact 99.9% of the time pricewise , now day after day you'll find better sp than on here..
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You really are a gobshyte , read the thread again , I had taken all the 2/1 15/8 avaiable along the line it went 7/4 ,this clown was GOING 15/8.God why do I bother.
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That doesn't show though Workrider, the very least they could do would be give them the benefit of their advertising department, you kinda get Nelly and the "royal box" but this (i hope phonetically right) Beeetfaaair,tap,tap,boooom rubbish is desperate.
Think it took a while for the premium charge to really kick in as well WR, on the American golf the two main market makers (Eddie the Eagle and Knight Rider) took a view,they won (and lost) big, both gone as priced out,the markets there only now follow the books also and poor out if you want a bet mid round, you are again looking at the books first call. |
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Ha you took all the 2/1
 will ya wake up ya clown, fgs man stop pretending you are something you're not, you're not a big gmabler you're a 50's man, sometimes maybe a little bigger sometimes maybe a little smaller. You backed a horse at 2's you seen money coming in for it, it went 7/4 with one lad going 15/8 you went up and tried to back it and you were rightly knocked back. Wonks you put €50 on a horse in Sligo and i put it down for you and i could tell you were sweating over it. Give it a rest Mr Byrnes |
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it should have been a tote monopoly guys from a long time ago owned 100% by racing authorities with the addition of an online exchange owned by same org as well...........bookies and off course fixed odds betting have done nothing for racing..........they wont allow u to win anyway so it operates something like a tote. whole thing has been a waste of time.
any meeting that attracts big crowds now do so for entertainment reasons...........it has nothing to do with betting........the day that on course bookies are gone will be a happy day. the model is dead. |
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Pa, I'm not backing as much on here as I have done in the past because of the prices been offered . I find it iritating looking at the difference now compared to the recent past when Betfair ran the show , have a peep at some of the s.ps been returned and compere them with Betfair for the next week or so . I'm sure you'll be surprised...
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Apologies for going slightly off topic.
I'm suspicious there isn't even a slight link though, i can't fathom why nothing seems to be done by PP for the exchange and yet we are bombarded with pushing their shop side of things. I well believe that WR,get a reduction factor,drifter,and commission on top, the bot driven markets are now so tight on here, getting very poor "value" in Irish racing and golf in particular. Taking Bannf as an example no problem getting 6/4 with a book at the moment,would you really want to take the £30 at 2.54 on here? Rant over,it is a bit of a bugbear,i can't understand why nothing is being done, i only want "jam" on it some of the time. |
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PP must be looking in and trying to mess with me head,this minute they just went 13/8!!
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no mention of intrepid prince gamble , one man shortened it from 20/1 to 7/1 on track
collected the loot in a rucksack and fooked off home to Athgarvan to divvy up i say he thinks on course market still ok |
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It seems CALLING CARD left his calling card but he does however make my point.
Intrepid Prince opened up 8/1 in the betting shops and shortened to sevens,nothing dramatic there. They managed with their delayed shows to conceal what now appears a monstrous gamble. The Curragh betting ring is in the wrong place for a start but its still relatively strong. If you want to get money on at a top price its funnily enough the new entrants you go to. Some of the old reliables are a shadow of their former selves. The Thurles betting ring seems smashed,what used to be a bustling vibrant square is now a moribund T with lots of men buried in computers facing the wrong way. |
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WILDMAN
i will answer two quotes for you per other thread no i don,t employ and Easter European ladies , 50 % of my staff are IRISH and are working for me over 6 years, i do employ Indians and Filipino however. i dont understand your religion point sorry No UNFORTUNATELY i wasn't not the lucky rucksack man but did avail of some 8/1 when told . u however are quite correct most layers now either clerk the bets or have their arse to the customers buried into the Machine |
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The exchanges are swallowing up gamblers money in greater amounts and faster than ever before. Hence we see empty racecourses and betting shops countrywide. The only people at racecourses are people who bet for fun and non gamblers who never feel the "need" to bet. The exchanges are the worst invention for punters who end up losing fortunes of money in a less entertaining service
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There are a number of problems.
The racecourses get money too easily and some dont need customers. Galway Listowel Leopardstown and Punchestown keep the show on the road. Some of the smaller ones do make an effort. The non-triers harm racing and there are fewer suckers nowadays who are prepared to have their pockets picked. The holiday crowds at the likes of Galway dont mind as they just see losses as holiday expenses. Some of the cr@p written about the Charles Byrne affair makes me sick especially those who say its great - supposedly good for racing and the bookmakers being taken for one!!!??? The bookies get their money back eventually but the ordinary punter and racing lose out in the long term. We would all be much better if subsidies were done away with. |
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I tend to stay at home myself and watch and back the races i chose .the race is there in front of me and having a few A/Cs includeing betfair i suppose its fair to say iv gone lazy where going out to racing is concerned, i admire foremites like W/R who go racing a great deal , A good thread with some excellent posts.
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theres no value on course anymore,all the cowardly bookmakers have been staring at oddschecker and betfair all morning and anything that looks like its been nibbled at early prices is "chalked up" at a much lower price than it will have been available at overnite or early morning even though none of the oncourse guys have laid a dime.once at the races most of the bookies are now just effectively arbers,not willing to lay any bet unless they can have it back on the machine..not sure wot davy hylands m o is any more? was always good to see him bet to his opinion.i dont go racing much now but when i do i tend to place my bets online or in the shops before i go so at least securing some value.at the races ill just have a few beers and enjoy the day,refusing to give the cowards my few quid.sad but true.
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Davy still doing his own thing Insideinfo,still willing to take a bet ,at Naas awhile back he was highlighting how Baddies were shortening up every fav, they have a massive representation on course now ,at the Curragh on Sun I had a bet with one of them , the horse was 13/2 when I placed my bet , yet when I looked at my docket he'd only given me 6/1 ,he corrected his mistake , point is this is happening all to often with this crowd , I would advise anyone having a bet with them to check their ticket BEFORE leaving the pitch...
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good to know davy still going strong workrider,hes definitely one of a kind! i can rem him on occasion shouting out " big stuff only" or words to that effect and chasing the 2 quid punters at busy meetings in order to accommodate those wanting a proper bet.sean grahams who i used to have alot of respect for seem to have gone to the dogs,their rep usually has his head stuck in the computer instead of shouting out prices to the punters when ive saw them at the races recently.re your experience with ladbrokes on sun,the horse in question had probably went from 17/2 to 8/1 on the machine lol
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Surely we are all bookmakers now ourselves, we can either work the price out or we cant.
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I went to Galway for the first time in 23 years on the Monday. Didn't have a bet, just went for a nosey. Trading prices on here is the way.
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Workrider, you state Davy H still going strong i doubt judging by his demeanour at The Curragh last weekend .
He was our friend for years laying allcomers , i remember one evening at ROSCOMMON when the tote bailed him out as he could not pay out.I hear his pitch at Leopardstown for sale , |
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Well I had a 200 bet with him the other day at Naas , would much rather have a bet with him than his brother , hes never turned me away ,and yes I did hear he was having difficulties ,Davy is a bookie in the truest sense unlike his brother .
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speak as you find is my motto fair dues thats not too bad, i trust it lost or you would be still there trying to get paid
if ur a regular racegoer you will notice NO other bookies hedge with him nowadays Francis is and always has been a twopence bookmaker, we all know to stay well clear with any bet of substance |