Irish Sports
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 203 comments are related to the topic:
John Oxx A Poor Trainer.
John Oxx A Poor Trainer.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 203
|
By:
If the Aga Khan had give Dermot Weld his string in 1990 he would have won Classic after Classic.
The fact is not alone had The Aga Khan the best bred horses in the world but he bought the best bred string ever to come up for sale at the time,this huge expansion took place at the same time he was boycotting Britain over the Aliysa affair. He had huge numbers with Oxx who had a solo run for ten years and he produced nothing,he had three Epsom Derby winners trained in Eangland in the preceding ten years yet Oxx came up with nothing a National Stakes winner in Mantari. |
|
By:
Has the Aga Khan sent Oxx any of the Lagardere family if that is the string that you refer to?
I cannot think of any off hand and he has enjoyed a large portion of his success over the past number of years as a result ofthe purchase of this racing empire. |
|
By:
The Aga Khan bought the Marcel Boussac string around 1990 with some of the best broodmares in the world,Oxx got the bulk of them.
|
|
By:
Ah you are going further back, but that was surely in the early 80s or I would recall it?
|
|
By:
It could well be but the boost to his breeding operation would be filtering through in the nineties,the time John Oxx had over a hundred Aga Khan horses in his stable,indeed he had to have a satellite stable to cope and in my opinion he didnt.
|
|
By:
From a quick scan of tbheritage etc it seems this was a very early 80s purchase by the Aga Khan and the first results were the likes of Darshaan. Oxx was not training for the Aga Khan back as far as 1983 was he?
|
|
By:
Don't mind that wanka distant......wildman makes it up as he goes along......as ya will already know.....its like talking to the wall.....utterly pointless........hes never wrong......never ever......shouts his fat gob off without the slightest consideration.....ya oxx never won fukk all except the English derby twice.....the arc.....2000 gns......breeders cups....king George.....mother of jesus......what race didn't he win ya numpty.....
|
|
By:
His results in the 90s were far from spectacular alright, with Timarida, Adjarelli, Ebadiyla being some of the few that I can think of that were top class during that period.
He did produce some nice hurdlers like Chirkpar though! |
|
By:
He won every one of the races that you would really want to win and has had a great ability to get the most out of a horse that is top class as he proved with Sinndar, Sea The Stars and did extremely well with the likes of Azamour.
The ratio of winners to runners for the owner may not have been good, but the manner in which the Aga Khan used stallions meant that he was always going to produce an awful lot of rubbish. He has never been like Coolmore and used commercial stallions and was very much a try and see if it works type breeder, using all manner of stallions. It works spectacularly sometimes but will fail a lot more. He has probably got some of the best results out of stallions like Grand Lodge, Desert Style, Priolo, Refuse to Bend but I would guess he has produced more garbage than any other breeder in history as well. The French results have always been better but volume would have a big part to play in that, although Dupre has enjoyed some great success. It is worth nothing that other than Kalanisi and Daliapour (to some extent), Stoute produced very little for him either when he returned to the UK. He got a ready made winner from Cumani in Daliapour, so his record was dreadful for the Aga at a time when he flying high at the top of the trainer's list in the UK. |
|
By:
Paulie Wallnuts read the thread.
Everything is relative,I have previously stated that Sinndar and Alamshar saved him from the sack and Sea The Stars has saved his reputation. The fact is if the Aga Khans operation was a commercial one Oxx would not have been given time. John Oxx decent man that he is would not last a season in Ballydoyle. |
|
By:
distant view puts up a great argument.......but the other bulldog will hav the answers.....as he always does.....no consideration for the fact that oxx wasn't getting first pick of the aga's horses......the French trainers were......same as weld doesn't get hamdans best.....no we can forget about all that......because this Wildman ape has a bee in his bonnet with Oxx......because he lost a few bob on his horses at some stage......
|
|
By:
Its a discussion that's all.
Distant View does make valid points and he is correct in pointing out that when the Aga Khan sent horses back to England they didnt do well. Paulie Wallnuts also makes the point about the French trainers getting the pick and whilst that is true now it wasn't always so. I like John Oxx but don't think he is as good a trainer as either Dermot Weld or Aiden OBrien. |
|
By:
Horse trainers are vastly overrated anyway and their good horses vastly underrated.
The Bowe boys made a mockery of the so called sophistication to the art of horse training. Oxx was the bees knees after STS but hasn't had a decent one since, maybe My Tatania might be decent next year?, but they don't possess a magic wand that can make slow horses go fast. Look at the awful training of a horse called Snow Queen?. |
|
By:
If you owned a gr1 horse Wildman who would you have train him...weld or Oxx?..........I've lost count of how many impressive first time out 2 yr old winners Weld has trained that have turned out to be useless.
|
|
By:
Saved him from the sack......what the fukk are ya talking about......that's more auld pub talk that ya go on with........in fact the aga has a history of being irrational......sacked murtagh......a great idea wasn't it........sacked soumillon.....sacked lemaire......and sacked all the English trainers over a dispute with BHA.....now reinstated soumillon again......what a cockk he is.....
|
|
By:
Paulie I will ask you again to read the thread.
The Aga Khan never sacked his English trainers,his sacking of John Murtagh was silly but justified as there was a conflict of interest,it wasn't the cleverest thing whooping and hollering when a horse of your own beats one of your employers. I would send it to Weld with reservations. |
|
By:
he removed his horses from cumani which is as good as giving him the sack. it was over horses testing positive for banned substances i think, and cumani couldnt give a guarantee that it wouldnt happen again.
i dont know why stoute got no more. |
|
By:
silvergreaser
05 Nov 13 11:41 Joined: 11 Feb 10 | Topic/replies: 7,119 | Blogger: silvergreaser's blog Horse trainers are vastly overrated anyway and their good horses vastly underrated. The Bowe boys made a mockery of the so called sophistication to the art of horse training. Oxx was the bees knees after STS but hasn't had a decent one since, maybe My Tatania might be decent next year?, but they don't possess a magic wand that can make slow horses go fast. Look at the awful training of a horse called Snow Queen?. Silvergreaser..........Don't fall for the old flat cap and bit a straw in the mouth lark. The Bowe's just didn't gallop up the side of a hill, they had the use of very good facilities.............but it looked great. |
|
By:
John Oxx's comments summarised every year when asked about his 2yr old.
"a little backward" "cold/wet winter held us up" " had a little cough in spring" "we like a few but we don't know yet "we don't press them at home" I have heard these phrases or something close to them from Mr Oxx nearly everything when Gary O Brien asks a few pointed questions. With regards Dermot Weld he overhypes his horses clearly...but I am certain he have better results than Oxx will manage over the next 5 seasons. I love to see Oxx win something sooner or later but we might have a Henry Cecil curve of slide in trainer form I think. |
|
By:
if youre going to judge a trainer by his comments ruby then i dont know where you'll leave aidan o'brien.
ah sure listen,obviously, privileged, pleasure, the lads will make a decision etc. i find weld to be fairly repetitive too. it doesnt change the fact that all three are good at their job. it all boils down to having the right material. wildman makes reference to the best bred horses that oxx received but i dont recall many of the aga khan cast offs that left oxx improving leaps and bounds to any great extent. |
|
By:
It all boils down to been in the right place at the right time, like a jockey a few high profile wins can be the making of you, or in Joseph O'Briens case....nepotism
|
|
By:
Going handy on the sauce and turning up on time also helps.
|
|
By:
No this has nothing to do with Aidan O Brien. We all no what he says is gibberish.
Oxx always has some sort of little excuse....nothing has ever gone to plan other than Sea The Stars and you start to wonder when he thought Arazan and Mouryan were not far behind him how good a horse Sea The Stars actually was. I think the horse was in same calibre as Frankel in terms of raw ability. Look Oxx is one of the most privliged trainers in Ireland for decades...and his results are ****. Pure and Simple....the Aga Khan has been loyal too loyal IMO. Pack all the horses off to France or give them to Bolger/Weld and in fairness Halford has done well considering he gets the pits of the talent availible. John Oxx has had 18 winner on the Irish Flat according to the racing post this season. That is soooo bad I cant even believe that is correct? is that correct can anyone perform??....that is much worse than i thought. ****g hell |
|
By:
Never drank a drop in your life Gant I presume?, pot kettle and all that.
Is nepotism the most powerful force in Irish racing, even more powerful than Magnier himself?. Who really pulls the strings at Coolmore/Ballydoyle? |
|
By:
Maybe he should campaign his horses like gigginstown, chase the euro and run the nuts out of the horses.
|
|
By:
its no secret about the virus that was there. you have to make allowances.
|
|
By:
Silvergreaser.......What are you on about. Just because I mentioned drink it's not directed at you.
Living on the edge of the Curragh you should know about all the lads that were as good as MJK or Murtagh..........but the excuse is always drink or laziness. |
|
By:
Silvergreaser...........I couldn't give a toss about the money men at Coolmore.
|
|
By:
last 5 irish flat seasons strike rate
o brien 21% oxx 18% weld 15% bolger 12% |
|
By:
Gant Murtagh was no saint himself when it came to alcohol.
Yes I know many a guy who had a few rides up the Curragh but drink ruined it for them, I had a first cousin who had potential had a few rides on the Curragh but the gene got the better of him . |
|
By:
Gant your comment about Gigginstown is a strange one considering John Oxx yard had a huge attrition rate in recent years. Numerous virsus etc....you want to take a good look at the controls and procedures at that yard.
Giggy runs there horses a lot and should be applauded to do so...quite a few of John Oxxs never make it to the track and when they do we never see them again. |
|
By:
When Oxx continued to use Murtagh after the Aga dispensed with Murtagh's services I'd say combined with a couple of bad years (maybe Oxx hadn't the ammunition) sealed the deal.
You don't suddenly forget how to train a horse. |
|
By:
The vast majority of Oxx AGA KHAN Horses end up hurdling,That just proves how rubbish they are.
|
|
By:
One thing is certain, John Oxx will bounce back.
|
|
By:
With every day that passes Dermot Weld is proving the prescience of this thread.
|
|
By:
This is right up here with the time Wildman started a thread laughing at someone tipping up Joseph O'Brien for the jockey title at 9/2, only for O'Brien to oblige
 He may not have been the best jockey but he had the best and most ammo and guns, Wildman failed to see this and ignorantly wrote him off and was made looked like Mr Muggins. |
|
By:
Joseph OBrien got 4 winners on his first day holding a licence.
John Oxx hasn't had a winner this year,none. Meanwhile Weld wins the Derby with an Aga Khan horse. |
|
By:
No doubt John Oxx has seen better days, Its hard to get to the top ;but its much harder to stay there.
|
|
By:
Yes and its a terrible sad state of affairs , maybe its because people expect a quicker return on their money than yesteryear .You don't become a bad trainer over night ,he had virus issues which didn't help.
|
|
By:
It's very hard to say what happened to John Oxx but up to the time he trained for the AK (2014 from an arbitrary base year of 2000) he had a strike-rate of 17% and 23% in Ireland and the UK respectively. This compares to Weld's strike-rate over the same period of 15% and 12% which covers 15 years.
The Oxx decline can be traced to 2013 when he finished 14th in the trainers' table compared to an average of 4th for most of the earlier years. Oxx handled superstars exceptionally well and from a purists point of view all the Melbourne Cups in the world won't hold a candle to an Epsom Derby. I'm not sure what went wrong but Oxx can feel aggrieved in my book. In looking back at some stats recently for some Arab and US owners in Ireland you can say Weld has under-performed with literally dozens of horses owned by Hamdan, Juddmonte, Calumet Farm and even Ronan Lambe's huge annual investment. He never got near an Epsom winner and it wasn't from a lackof the main starting point-a decent pedigree. |