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John Oxx A Poor Trainer.
John Oxx A Poor Trainer.
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Replies: 203
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No not irate at all bobby, much too nice to day to be irate. I am however a little tired and bemused that yet another thread has been hijacked by a select few for the sake of very petty squabbling, a sentiment shared by others too obviously judging from some posts. I remember that alrite. Those lads must have thought there was only one racing person in west limerick for whatever reason. I'm sure you have heard this before but you shouldn't believe everything you read, as you say yourself an awful lot of **** is talked on here at times. If you are that interested in my degree then I can tell you that is was procured from the university in the peoples republic. In fact two or three of my classmates are on your beloved sars team that seems to be standing you twenty grand. One of my former lecturers, a former All-Ireland winner for cork in the early 90's, is even a selector for sars to boot as far as I know.
Now if you have anything to say about the merits of John Oxx as a trainer or in fact any opinion at all on what has been discussed in what had largely been an interesting thread then by all means go ahead. If however you or the others plan on continuing with the side-snipping and childishness then please find your way onto another thread. |
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there should be no need to continue this thread. john oxx is a great trainer. simple as and end of.
too many on here with way too much time on their hands. |
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Jeez 40 replies since, I don't think there is a pub in Newbridge that ever refused me entry?.
Personally I think wildman is talking total boll!!x regarding Oxx. Oxx can train so can Aidan, but then again a rocking horse could train a good horse. But the media will have me think that they're after pulling off some sort of a super human feat by winning a group 1 race witn the best horse in the race. Johnny Murtagh is a group 1 jockey, but he wasn't a group 1 jockey before he won his first group 1?, I'm sure Shane Foley would be a multiple group 1 jockey if he was giving the ride on the best 3yr Camelot?. |
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i am very happy that this point has been brought up as john oxx has been very disappointing since his great year of 2009 in which he had much more going thatn just STS. i was willing to excuse 2010 as a hangover as sorts but when murtagh got the retainer the aga khan said in a interview or maybe it was murtagh said, but anyway the aga khan had promised to send better class of horse to oxx and had said that he had taken his eye of the ball in ieland and murtagh said he was very excited about this prospect and so was i. at th start of the tear i really thought that oxx would have a much stronger string with this renewed faith put in him ny the aga khan, maybe the summer has hampered this and his string need good ground or maybe its the vakid point that a long of his stock arnt by the most fashionable sires with dr fong and Oratorio among them, id have expected that oxx would have many more high class dalakani;s as his type are oxx down to the ground, not much as 2yr olds but improve so much at 3. despite all this i am willing to allow oxx another 2 seasons until get to he point of wmfb. loving the sideshow btw
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i guess sometimes u just dont have the horses.
what races should oxx have won and with what horses since sea the stars? and what races did he perhaps send the wrong horses to? any races where horses were campaigned in entirely the wrong races? trip ground etc? |
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wow allduck studied in china can u speak the language ???
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ilwab thats exactly it, remove god from godville and see how many group one winners he trains?, all the saddling of 8 horses all by his self for the Epsom Derby, the walking up and down various racetracks with dark shaded jockeys and family in tow, the group huddles, the jumping in and out of 4x4's at Newmarket etc mobile phone in hand to tell the stall handlers how to their job, not to mention the attempt at trying to do (hands on) the job of the vastly experienced Curragh stall handlers with George Washington (lucky he wasn't given a swift one on the bridge of his nose?) didn't make the horse in question run any faster than he can already run, and all the time Henry Cecil looks on from the stands and Frankel didn't get any slower, in fact he got faster with no need for the so called attention to detail so bestowed upon the messianic one because Henry knows without a good horse you're nothing!.
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i like aidan but he is not THAT special imo. i dont mind if he sends 2 or 3 to win races if he has the resources and provided they are running on their merits bar the obvious pacemaker but it cant be THAT hard to remain in the publics consciousness with all thee blue bloods. if John Oxx htoo over ballydoyle tomorow he would do as good a job and prob better imo.
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John Oxx had the best bred horses in the world for nearly ten years and won little,if he went to Ballydoyle he would last a month,they are a commercial operation and need to make money,the Aga Khan is not and has never made money.
If Aidan OBrien had charge of the Oxx stables in the nineties he would have won numerous classics,like Oxx predecessors did in the eighties. |
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To be fair to Oxx the quality is not there.............Sheikh Mohammad, Hamdan, Khalid Abdullah and now the Aga Khan are running scared of the Ballydoyle machine..........Trainers getting scraps and token box fillers.
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Now on to our 4th page of a stupid question that Wildman asked and was answered in the first post or two. He has since managed to keep it going by nit picking at people's posts i.e. mine when i said i got paid in Euro and obviously it should have been punts when coming back from Uni to bet Sinndar. Honestly i think BF should lock this and then warn Wildclown on his future behavior on the forums.
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Rocketfingers.........Is he stealing your thunder.
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Hold on look at threads he starts and what i start, worlds apart. I start betting threads he starts these rubbish threads, then people give their opinion (Foolishly) and he then hit picks at their posts, starts a fight a row, then the likes of you who never miss an opportunity of kicking a man on the ground come in, Wildclown with numbers behind him gets a 2nd wind and all of a sudden we've got 4 pages of nonsense. And on the 4th page he (wildclown)is still dribbling his opinion about why Oxx is a 'poor trainer' even though to a man, eveybody on the forum told him he is talking carp, you could not make it up !
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But Rocketfingers you are the top dog around here.............comedy gold.
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Rocketfingers it's called a discussion something you are incapable of and it is being done without rancour.
You descended on with a post full of lies designed to portray yourself as a gambler,a mathematics graduate,a ladies man and a drinker when you are none of these.Dont take this as an insult because you are entertaining your latest gem is on an Anaglogs Daughter thread when you whined about it being too long and could he shorten it for you,some graduate. |
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Surely Saturdays performance at the Curragh makes my point.
John Oxx has a 75 year old owner who has just sacked a great jockey and is in a mini crisis,he attends the Curragh and Oxx can only muster 3 runners and naturally no winners,it is this inability to target races and vary his placing of horses that makes him so disappointing.Any other trainer would have run a few others and would certainly have made the mile two year old maiden a priority,yet he managed to make a complete bags of it,first mistake was running his own horse Stepwise,imagine if that beast had pipped the Aga Khans,would surely have tipped an already cross owner over the edge,the second mistake was not giving Zand a few more educational gallops,the third mistake which may have been out of his control was putting Christophe Lemaire on Zand his inexperience of the Curragh found him out. Having said all that his two horses ran with some promise and are near certain winners next time out providing he doesn't run them against each other. |
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how many horses did u train wildbore ????????????????
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Can you explain what an 'educational' gallop is please Wildman.......i'd love to know....
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Badly worded alright but the point i was trying to make was that bearing in mind the circumstances you would think that Oxx would have Zand ready to run for his life and whilst he ran a sledger he patently needed the run.
Did you not think it was a huge risk running his own horse against the Aga Khans risking a repeat of the performance that caused the furore in the first place. |
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up
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What does up mean in this context?
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Must be the Ballydoyle inmate
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A prescient thread.
John Oxx is finished as a trainer he has had a dozen winners this year,his main owner The Aga Khan is ageing and rapidly losing interest so the laid back approach he had will be gone,Oxx takes his time doesn't run two year olds til late in the season so unable to train a precocious horse. I can't see how he can carry on training so expect a retirement soon. |
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He is speaking quite highly of the two year olds he has, and if they have the ability he won't mismanage them. Can't see how you would think he is finished wildman. The STS filly he is running in the opening maiden has a Moyglare entry.
I wouldn't mind the 12 winners, the man deals in proper horses, not rubbish. He has stated that the 3-y-o are ordinary this term, they've probably taken time too, expect a strong back-end. the man is far from finished. |
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He may be dealing in proper horses but one he trains for Sheikh Mohammed Papaya is now trying to break her duck in Tramore having failed previously in Limerick and Wexford.
He is in a slump and were the Aga Khan to cut back his horses or have more of them trained in France that would spell the end. |
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They all have their share with little ability though I accept that if he is going to get another real one, it will probably be from Tsui or the Aga. The fact the Aga is keeping a retained jockey in Ireland should give him some hope. I've high regard for him since STS, I haven't seen better handling of a top horse, most of them always throw in a bad run as they aren't peaked properly, even Frankel, who nearly got beaten at Ascot in the St James Palace(brain dead ride by Queally accepted)
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he trained three superstars........amazour, sea the stars and sinndarr so he knows how to handle a real good one.
i would argue against the belief that he had at his disposal a magnificent stock of horses because he trained for the aga khan. as pointed out already, they are homebreds. a completely different situation to that of ballydoyle whose stock is based on coolmore buying left right and centre. |
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ridgewood pearl would be in the superstar bracket too.
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Aga Khan not only cutting back but sending a few to Dermot Weld even he is losing patience.
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Denouement.
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The difference between a great trainer and an ordinary one illustrated perfectly on Sunday by Dermot Weld.
He gets some Aga Khan two year olds for the first time this year,does so under controversial circumstances,he knows from past history that Aga Khan two year olds are rarely precocious ( Mantari an exception ) he finds a softish race has a filly ready to run for her life result a seven length win for Balisiya. He could have just been lucky,she could be a real champion but I just think it was Dermot Weld making sure of a winning start. When you contrast that with the day the Aga Khan travelled over to the Curragh last year loaded for bear and Oxx could not only not provide a winner could hardly muster a runner,he even managed to further antagonise the Aga Khan by running one of his own horses against him,'twas the grace of god it didnt triumph. |
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For the sake of balance, I'd add that Weld has had the support of Juddmonte(to me a far more potent force than the Aga Khan these times) for the bones of 5 years and has had only Famous Name, Emulous and Sapphire none of whom he could win a Classic with. Weld is a great man to give a horse time, (the easiest thing in the world to do imo) but top end flat racing is about deadlines and that is part of the reason why Weld isn't at the top table any more.
AOB has great raw material, but he is expected to have them ready for May every year often after contending with a bad winter. It is something Oxx has proven himself able to do as well, but isn't a thing Weld chooses to contend with. He is a grand fella to land a punt and he has some touch with auld geldings (eg. Ansar, his present Gold cup winner? who was all out to beat a Coolmore NH stallion), but he completely misjudged Free Eagle this season for one. The last horse of real account he had was Grey Swallow, he has won nothing of real bona fide prestige in the last 10-15 years meanwhile John Oxx has won everything in Europe. Weld has incredible longevity, but oxx has had the better career for as long as I've been watching. I don't really like the Melbourne Cup as a race I should probably add |
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Weld did train refuse to bend to win the English 2000 gns......but the fact of the matter is......oxx is now and always was a better trainer than weld.......and he has won more prestigious races right now......than weld will......if he lives to be 500.......
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Missed one of course!! I wouldn't really cite the two fillies winning Irish Classics Bethrah/Nightime, good and all training performances that they were. Dubai Prince might have been his one that got through the net.
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It must take a lot for the Aga Khan to start packing up shop.
Operation is falling apart...another terrible year. I like John Oxx as a man but as horse trainer I dont have much time for him. His excuses year in year out are getting very tiring. Hand it over to the son... |
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ffs only 4 years ago he produced a horse to win the 2000 Guineas, Derby, Eclipse, Juddmonte, Champion Stakes and Arc in 1 season - yes the horse was an absolute superstar but to produce the horse to win 6 of Europe's biggest group 1s in 6 months takes some bloody doing, now seemingly he don't know what he is doing
 ffs there is no middle ground on here is there, it's either the best ride in the world and best training performace ever or ya simply don't know what you're doing, maybe he just has not had the ammunition recently? i find it hard to believe with all the big races he has won he does not know what he is doing. |
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PF.....Begrudgers. We have one clown on here comparing magicians win to a finish at wolverhampton.
Ruby......What excuses does John Oxx trot out year after year. |
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Gant, you might look before you leap, I don't take too kindly to been called a clown when I'm not.
Yes it looked good when Magician came wide and late, but its something that happens in racing everyday of the week, and Ryan Moore comes out with one of the best I've ever ridden, getting caught up in the moment or what?. |
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Oxx is not a better trainer than Weld and Weld is going to show Oxx up with this batch of horses of the Aga Khans.
Dermot Weld is one of the most innovative trainers of all time,'twas he started this travelling all over the world. He brought Go And Go a moderate beast over to win the Belmont Stakes in 1990,three years later he won the Melbourne Cup with Vintage Crop,he won the big race in Hong Kong later with Additional Risk and followed up with another Melbourne Cup with Media Puzzle. These feats have opened the door for all these international races,he was the first to target them. His home record isint too dusty either,he is a great trainer and has been for forty years. |
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he is a good trainer......that's not in question......but just not in the same league as Oxx.......their records prove it.......Oxx has won races that weld could only dream about......
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