|
By:
and the biased bleatings of the incorrigible silvergreaser-but featuring excellent posts from Allduck.
Vubiant, oh I had my racing heroes too one time when I was a young racing fan, but years of experience has thought me to except the fact that the bit players are the human participants (often dishonest) and the real stars of the show the horses with the most ability at their various pursuits. So I'm not looking to be reformed these are my opinions, you can tell me that Aidan O'Brien is the greatest trainer of all time and you'd be entitled to that opinion, but I'd argue to the contrary that any half decent trainer with an ounce of savvy could lay claim to that hollow title if they were fortunate enough to be the trainer of the best bred flat horses in the world. Funny vubiant I seem to remember you agreeing with me as regards jockeys, like trainers they're only as good as their next good horse (ride). But don't whatever you do question the real merits of Aidan O'Brien in your eyes as he to you is beyond any type of reproach?. |
|
By:
silvergreaser -I have differentiated before between the scale and complexity of what trainers and jockeys do .
If you cannot appreciate that -there's no basis for discussion and I'm not going to waste time in a fruitless exercise. |
|
By:
Some of the complexities involved:
Noel Murless (father-in-law of Cecil?) was of the view that any trainer worth his salt should win first-time-out with their 2yo's; this is a very uncommonly held view today and most trainers never have them sharp enough first time. How often do you see strong market support in maidens/conditions before it can take another run or two for home form to shine through: Shane Ryder's Josie S And B a good recent example: backed to win a bumper first time out at Tramore (disappointed twice) before connections experimented with front-running on third start and she won at Roscommon at 33/1. Horses that have good handicap marks very often find it hard to win on the first day the button is pressed. In my experience they often need experience of real racing before they learn: Christy Roche's Micks was a horse did me such a turn last season, yet only managed to win on his third start when the brake was off. Such variables challenge the trainer. Show me a trainer getting the latter two examples mostly right and he'll be on my A list. Vubiant, your comment on Oxx as not one to train handicappers is interesting and one I agree with. He's completely spoiled by the Aga and therefore avoids one of the most challenging aspects of training horses. Knowing this single fact about him would encourage me to regard him as a poor trainer as he will have plenty of horses that SHOULD be handicapped to extract the best return from them. |
|
By:
RA, that reminds me of the old days when he was well able to train the handicappers.
When Eddery used to ride over here in the 80's for Vincent O'Brien at the week-end it was regular of him to maybe get three four or even five winners at a meeting. Three or four would be for O'Brien in the maidens, listed, Group races etc. The other two would be for Oxx in the handicaps. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
I accept you are infatuated with Rocketfingers but surely love can't be that blind,look at all the other posts that point out the stupidity of his post.
I suppose blind loyalty is a virtue but suspect that you have a similar low attention span and find these long threads hard to follow,ye are made for each other. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
YOu had a go at me because i said the bookie tried to pay me in Euros obviously i got mixed up and it should have been punts. No big deal no need to get excited i'm closer to the truth than you are about Oxx who is a genius.
|
|
By:
You claimed you flew back from university where you were paid to attend had 500 sterling on Sinndar with a Northern bookie naturally unnamed and he tried to pay you out in Euros.
Others pointed out the inaccuracy with regards the Euro,I pointed it would be far more like a Southern bookie to lack sterling,unlikely a university would pay you to attend,unlikely you have anything bar basic education as you have such a low attention span and have difficulty with what you perceive to be long words. |
|
By:
Well wildman you may be dubious of the number of graduates here but I can assure that is the case with me though given it'll be three years (at least) before I have my professional exams passed I suppose I am only halfway there in reality. It is irrelevant anyway as I was just pointing put that in all likelihood I would be younger then Ruby yet it was he who was exhibiting shortsightedness.
The merits of Oxx is a trainer is dependent on what you expect for a stable. He probably could target his lesser horses more potently but that is a charge that can be leveled against all major operations who cannot focus on each horse individually. His MO is to win races and maidens are quite valuable for both colts and fillies. The latter are often sent to Tramore not for the scenery but to secure the valuable bracket before being retired to the breeding sheds. The former are often sold to various clients and winning an Irish maiden increases the sale price. It's why he doesn't abuse his horses and as a result they often make good jumpers as well as solid campaigners particularly in the Far East. |
|
By:
You do understand there are other countries that are part of the UK as well as England Wildman? I know you're a farmer who bails straw and does not get paid for it but the UK is the is very close to us, you should familiarise yourself with a geography book or two.
|
|
By:
The ones I was sceptical about were the ludicrous Rocketfingers,the Ichantiinka who claimed multiple degrees and Ozymandius who claims a Cambridge degree.
When I stated that John Oxx didn't understand form,the Ichantika said it was a farcical statement and Ozymandias called it preposterous yet when challenged failed to say why,Oxx like a lot of trainers relies on others to do form for him but the point is in plenty of interviews I have heard he has shown a lack of knowledge of form,every two year old he runs is described as a big baby and he relied on Mick Kinane to tell him where to run his horses that role has been transferred to Niall McCullough,in fairness to him he doesn't bet so probably doesn't see the need. |
|
By:
wildbore/dark rosaleen is now back stalking me on the horse forum..........it has gone mad since being exposed the freak
|
|
By:
Alright Rocketfingers where did you attend university and what subject did you study.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
Have you any opinion on John Oxx as a trainer?
|
|
By:
when u answer ur lies tootsie freak ist
|
|
By:
Maths.
|
|
By:
You really are mercurial,more believable than English but where,St Andrews.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
What question would you like answered,I can't answer the paranoid stuff you come up with.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
That's more of a statement than a question.
Where are these alleged lies,you complain about stalking yet you descend on a racing thread of my making,make no relevant post just the usual obsessions and yet somehow your paranoid mind thinks you are being stalked. I accept it's a long thread but read it and reflect. |
|
By:
I don't like giving out to many out my personal details, i have a life outside the forum wildmanfromborneo. After that i was headhunted by a big City firm, girls and late night out took it's tool on me and i bailed mate.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
wildmanfromborneo • September 5, 2012 11:52 PM BST
Never Give Up you tried that before and got caught,you posted a winning selection two minutes after the race was over on the racing forum Onlooker exposed you,your post about it being 1.01 was made after you read my post on the racing forum,it really is sad and pathetic that you so desire affirmation you have to cheat to get winners. You have yet to create a thread about racing you just descend on some poster and Harry them,your first quarry was Lazarus and you made over 5000 posts in that pursuit,you then transferred your stalking to me,your latest seems to be Money Tree the same format a regurgitation after regurgitation of posts followed by the usual claims of sexual deviancy. |
|
By:
still waiting for ur proof lair/wildbore/dark rosaleen sick freak
|
|
By:
maybe u had a couple of pints bought to u in the horse and jockey tonight and ur to tired to answer
|
|
By:
Super trainer imo.
if the horse is good enough it will achieve its potential. |
|
By:
Some very good posts on here - pity the thread has been runined as most threads on here are by a few childish posters.
|
|
By:
john oxx relies on other people to tell him where to run!!!!!!!!
yeah if he had his way sinndar would have won his maiden round sligo what a spaceman u are wildmug |
|
By:
didnt they say allduck was running a pub one time in rathkeale......how do ya get a degree doing that......think wildman is right......the next fella saying he is a graduate will be wonker......
|
|
By:
allduck ran kathleens bar in rath caola thriving pub
|
|
By:
Bobby as sure as there's a hole in your arse I have never ran a pub and you could count on one hand the number of times i've been in kathleens in my life. The name over the door has been charge of that establishment for as long as I can remember. ML85 I wouldn't say there is any thriving pub in that town at this stage. I know who ye are on about alrite but as far as i'm aware he's been somewhere on the east coast of the states for a couple of years at this stage so sorry to burst your bubble. If ye were as cute as ye thought ye were then ye'd would have known that.
I don't particularly care if a manic depressive such as yourself bobby believes me or not because it matters little. You just keep posting your vitriolic rants if that makes you happy. |
|
By:
MissLimerick I think Alamshar won his maiden at Listowel,he was originally second string but they withdrew the favourite and yet he still started at around 6/1,after he won the usual quote he is a big baby.
Gamblers have this idea because they follow form so does everybody else in racing but its not true,some trainers and jockeys don't know what their horses are running against,it is normally the gambling stables that are the keen students of form. Charles Byrnes is widely regarded as the best gambling trainer,correctly in my view yet bookmakers will take him on for what he wants when he strays from his own horses.He was a bookmaker before he was a trainer and that particular venture ended in tears.Imagine if Byrnes had charge of the Oxx string for a few months he would have cleaned out the ring taken the chains for fortunes and got himself barred from all shops. |
|
By:
Interesting thread Wildman although i'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong.
I know John Oxx and i can tell you that not only is he an absolute gent that goes out of his way to help any young lad getting started but is also that there is no better trainer....trainer the Aga's breed of horse is not as easy as you might think it should be. |
|
By:
I accept the point about him being decent and stated it from the outset,I am judging him by high standards but respect your opinion nonetheless.
|
|
By:
Congrats Wildmanfromborneo it's only taken you 3 pages of people telling you how wrong you are before admitting it yourself that you were wrong.
|
|
By:
Fair enough Wildman but i have to point out that your comment that he relied on Mick to tell him where to run his horses is
nonsense tbh not that is a lot of choice here in Ireland about where to run horses anyway and trainer's certainly don't need to any sort of form genius.......unless you're happy to just be regarded as a 'gambling' trainer which of course Charles Byrnes is and John Oxx most certainly isn't. |
|
By:
ya seem a little irate allduckornodinner......i dont know who you are at all........i just remember people saying u ran a pub in rathkeale......they seemed to know u......was just wondering where the degree came out of.......lot of people with degrees here now.......wildman doesnt believe u for one......neither do i........as for kathleens.......never heard of it.....did hear of rathkeale alright......thats the place where all the lads and their cousins live......
|