In the last 6 years or so I'm about evens here (don't use bookies),if you gave me back the commission paid I'd be ahead.

I stick almost entirely to Irish racing except for big meetings across the pond,I avoid Handicaps where possible and tend to stick to Novice Hurdles and Chases mostly as they're less exposed and you can normally pick out the few that are going to be trying.

Anyone for Simonsig today?

Wildman,

Did they p

I dont know anything whatsoever about income tax on gambling winnings,but one thing i can be certain of is that the wildman knows less.I can assure you that wildmans assurances arent very assuring.The man is a serial fantasist,does anybody seriously think that these so called pro punters are discussing their tax affairs with every Tom **** and Harry at the races,of course they are not.
On a sadder note my friend who was a bookies runner at the races told me lately that his services are no longer required on midweek days,just festivals and Sundays from now on.For a man with a young family it is a real blow.

http://www.charteredaccountants.ie/taxsource/1997/en/act/pub/0039/sec0613.html

see point 2 wildman

Squigs point is on once off wins.The professional i know was questioned on his income he told them straight that he won it gambling,they didn`t look at his bets they just worked out what he was spending and then told him his income and then taxed him accordingly.They later returned and asked him for his exchange accounts and taxed him again on these profits with penalty interest.

Kavvie revenue have extensive powers its not optional.
Maybe Brian Cowan has got an amnesty for all Offaly taxpayers,pity he wouldn`t extend it over the border to North Tipperary.

Any self respecting pro gambler with a decent annual income from gambling would ( or should ) have the nous to spend cash only and not to indulge in using cards , loyalty cards , credit cards , debit cards or anything which would be termed traceable . Given that scenario he / she would then be in a position to "declare " any profit he/ she though fit .

And keep the beaten dockets .

IMO-No one answered any of the questions in my opening post,which leads me to the conclusion that none of ye have the answers!!

So if I put in an observation about your story re your pro gambling friend , Wildman , it makes my post "depressing" . Ever studied logic , Wildman ?

My post is a  direct reaction to your post , if mine is irrelevant its on your head  , not mine . Just following your handle on the thread .

Apart from beaten dockets what documentary evidence would anyone have re gambling losses ( presumably all your friends bookies accounts and exchange accounts aggregated would show a profit ) . In the last analysis , if your friend spent his winning money in traceable manner , he is not that shrewd  , just naive unless he was happy to pay the tax .  Cash betting on the other hand is  impossible to track , think any child would know that , only proof anyone ever had the  bet is in the writing , how many times can you back a horse in different writing or with the help of mates ? Or on the nod at the course ( maybe that has changed with technology ) , but in the old days lots of my on course bets were unwritten I suspect , might have to do with bookies returns , but thats not my business .  Weren't big anyway then . Some of the bookies now have loyalty cards , and debit machines in their offices .  To help the customers ? Or to assist in keeping track ?

We live in a big brother society . First rule is keep your cards close to your chest , you never know who is watching . We all know stories about how people get caught dodging their commitments  , but there always has to be evidence . Lifestyle is observable  , stylish suits and shirts come with a known price tag , plus the homes abroad and at home . The revenue guys are not stupid  , but they cant trace smoke . They can trace credit card spend , bank accounts , loyalty card spend , debit card spend  , anything to do with a card , but cash is still largely untraceable , a fact which niggles the authorities a lot , and every move by them is towards a cashless society  . A pro gambler would have lots of spare cash floating aound  , particularly if successful , no need to spend other than cash , unless he wanted to pay tax at whatever level was demanded .

Lest any body thinks that I am advocating tax evasion  , I often quote one of my friends , who happened to be head honcho of our legal profession .  Quote " the biggest hooks are the governments , they always win , because if they dont they just change the rules " . It is  the DUTY of each citizen to pay the appropiate tax , but NO MORE .  Ever had to deal with some of the government departments ? If they were all efficient we would not be in the mess we are in now . One of my brothers is a civil servant , half the people he works with he would not give house room to .

My wife got a tax demand some years ago despite her only income being a state pension for the last 10 years , the person who wrote the offending missive should have been sacked on the spot .  Every night our airwaves are full of stories about what is essentially maladministration by those in authority  , be it legal injustice , social injustice , political and fiscal ineptitude . Letting those  authorities come up with a figure would be inviting danger , if they could DISPROVE  a  figure  advised to them good luck to them .

But they dont have all the sharp minds .

Rant over , but the wastage and ineptitude exhibited daily , annually , and for decades is extremely annoying , wasting OUR money .  And our "government " locally aint the worst  , some of them do have their heads screwed on . But they are not all in the position to control things . And they have to look over their shoulder at the voters  , a lot of whom are civil servants ! ( up to 40% locally ) .

IMO it would be next to impossible to tax gambling profits as Revenue could not just tax all the winnings without first allowing those aggregate winnings to be reduced by any gambling losses incurred in the same tax year (and unused ring-fenced losses from prior tax years). What would happen is that professional punters would merely collect as many losing dockets from their local bookies every day and use these losers to reduce their actual winnings, thereby reducing any potential tax-take to an absolute  minimum and make a farce of the system

They can legislate to collect whatever tax they want. A model for collection of taxes without allowing for losses is the basic betfair commission model. All they have to do is make betfair responsible for collection of something akin to VAT on the commission they collect from Irish residents. A lot easier to collect than trying to identify profitable gamblers which would probably cost more than the revenue they would gain.

The long and short of this is wildman has imaginary friends

Sounds a bit like the way c.a.b would settle your tax liability.

Thanks great makey up story as usual Wildman. This makes no sense, sorry but as Squigs says, there has been no cases in Ireland.

Not sure if Irish law differs from UK law,

But if you are resident in the UK, profits from Gambling are tax free. I know a couple of professionals who have consulted with the solicitor in the articles below. 

I believe there may be some legislation in the upcoming gambling bill that may give revenue the opportunity to tax profits arising from professional activity.

www.taxationweb.co.uk/tax-articles/business-tax/the-tax-position-of-online-gambling-is-the-tax-world-keeping-pace.html

www.butler-co.co.uk/articles/The%20UK%20gambling%20industry%20-%20keeping%20up%20to%20date%20with%20constant%20change.pdf

4 in a row is it Kilkenny or Kerry?
It is a given there is no specific tax on gambling,there is income tax and thats the route they go to tax professional punters.

Sidney Greenstreet,prominent horse owner his sole income is derived from gambling.
The Youghal punters again their sole income from gambling,although a chill wind has blown through that town.
Limerick horse owner with red colours again sole income from gambling.
Small Cork farmer card player but main income from gambling.

Rover there was no tax in betting shops in the noughties and no tax on the racecourses either.

Dj876 more in line with your opening post,I,d imagine there is a fair bit of competition already with track players,sis owners,trading rooms.Very much a case of fastest finger first which would invite a mistake.The above aren,t cheap and on the presumption you are using here as the medium pc 1 can come into play by being in profit by as little as 6k.
Given race markets here in-running are dwindling seems more people want a slice of a smaller pie,i,d have doubts about the cost effectiveness of acquiring fast pics.

wasnt on here for a few days.i had to work..but wildman seems to have this tendency to abuse/ridicule people when they have a diff opinion to him..?..no tax has to be paid on gambling winnings in ireland...end of story..remember the bould bertie said he made a lot of his money from gambling..that cute hoor knew it couldnt be touched..!!..does lotto winners have to pay tax?no..prize bonds?..no.if my granny wins at the bingo?...no.have a good nite at poker?...no.a ridiculous thread really.

would the reason sum of these people wer liable 4 income tax be they are licensed bookmakers?