Is Camelot finally Ballydoyle's Derby Winner?

If that is not Coolmore No.1 Derby Horse, I eat my proverbial Hat!!!!!!!!

agree with wildman

Got him at 16/1

I wonder could you get a bet on Ireland to win all 5 British Classic's next year. Very strong in the Fillies with Maybe,Was,Wading and Kissed over 1m-1m4f. Then Colts are strong for the Derby and Born to sea for the Guineas with a few of Ballydoyle's thrown in. Then a few for the Leger late maturing Galileo types from Coolmore.

Might ask Paddy to give me a quote on that??

11/10 was a great price. actually did better. was going to have 400 @ 11/8 but ended up having 600 @ 11/10. so actually won 110 more than i would have done!! thanks billys

agreed wildman, I liked him for the Derby at 16's but I don't have the money to be tying up on a significant bet, that was so reminiscent of St Nick it was untrue.

Great if you're sitting on a fancy price for the derby, everyone should calm down as racing is littered with the corpses of impressive Group One 2YO winners, O'Brien himself has had many, SNA & Johannesburg to name but two of his.

What did he beat?

zip top .bolgers

we are talking about potential derby winners.  he was very impressive but he beat a depleted field.

Newmanix     23 Oct 11 00:18 
What did he beat?

you're joking aren't u? He didn't come off the bridle to beat Zip Top who despite not handling the track finished 3rd at Newmarket the previous time. The 4th that day (Crusade) has since won the Middle Park and the 5th (letsgoroundagain) won a listed race at Ponty pulling up.

Fencing - a listed winner himself - was only a nk back in 3rd with no excuses. However if you want to be picky the first time TT wasn't a great sign.

For me the form is rock rock solid and he is clearly the best 2yearold we've seen. The Derby is a long way away but i'd have been nears ladys 3 than veecee's 5

In defence of myself and those who didn't believe the hype, the race did cut up considerably.
I was planning on backing Encke and would like to have seen him run but I'm not going to debate yesterdays form. It looks good to me. I suppose it's very easy to become cynical about Ballydoyle good things these days.
Good horse. Well done winners.
Again though. I don't get people investing in horses like this at 3/1 for a race next June!
No wonder bookies are minted.

i'm not backing him for the Derby, but he was a good bet for THAT race at the prices, if ya can recognise a depleteded field now, plenty recognised twas a **** race before and backed accordingly

yes but there was no way to know how good he was!! he blew them away but backing even money shots like him everytime will result in you doing your bank very quickly!!

how anyone could back him with any confidence unless in the know is beyond me tbh!!

wd anyone who won!

You're dead right buses, I didn't realise how arsey that last post sounded on my part, I was just at the tail end of two nights on the beer.

Very impressive performance, not the strongest of RP trophies but he can only beat wats put in front of him

Deserving Derby favourite and dont think the price is 100 miles off

Dont think it'll be a very strong Derby next year

Parish Hall? Not for me - Akeed Mofeed, is interesting but can see him getting outpaced and staying on.  Born To Sea wont run - Fencing - meh - apollo - meh - david Livingston - meh. Imperial Monarch? But the way Camelot has been talked about and backed ud have to think he is by a decent way the best that AOB has


Game of opinions

PS as a backer b4 the RP trophy i pray they wont run him in the Guineas

yep, lads on the bloodstock forum reckon they overtrained st nick for the Guineas and ruined him.

Tell me about it

Ilikewavingatbuses if you watch the way the O`Brien horses are ridden you will learn a lot about their status.The good ones are dropped out given plenty to do and make their ground with the jockeys hands on the horses withers and let win on the bridle,the ones that are gambled on are bounced out in front and given hard races but a win at all costs regime is employed.The best two examples of this policy ran in the Racing Post Trophy,Camelot is a perfect example of the way the good ones are run,Learn is a perfect example of the way the gambled on ordinary ones are ridden,review the two Leopardstown races for confirmation.I have long posted about the O`Brien gambles and while they punt their champions the huge gambles generally are on the lesser lights.

Camelot wasn't a huge gamble????

Drifted out to about 11/10 leading up to the off here

I think he has a point all though it's not an exact science, most of the punts have been hard ridden from the front.

Rubyisgodinthesaddle and neill d flagged it up here with some back up from myself and it was well backed by the general public but not exclusively by Ballydoyle.When Learn won that infamous maiden in Leopardstown that was a perfect example of a Ballydoyle gamble,any price was a good price fortunes on it and opposition well researched and a host of non triers behind including the one i highlighted.

Interesting Thing is that Learn is this fella's work partner at home. Prob his only pacemaker come 9 months time

i still prefer apollo!!

wildmanfromborneo 24 Oct 11 21:20 
Ilikewavingatbuses if you watch the way the O`Brien horses are ridden you will learn a lot about their status.The good ones are dropped out given plenty to do and make their ground with the jockeys hands on the horses withers and let win on the bridle
--------------

like recital?!

They always thought the world of Recital maintaining he was their best 3 year old,i however always maintained he was a mongrel who didn`t do it and warned all on here not to back but to lay the beast.

that he did mightymoyes ...and took a lot of stick for his trouble ,but he was proved right in the end....

I suppose that not every horse who they think is going to the top actually is. I backed him on his 2yo debut actually, not especially fancied, went off around 3's

Time to resurrect this thread.

Anyone have any tipbits from Coolmore regarding the route. Has shortened up a snip for the 2000 Guineas Market last time I check at a general 4/1.

I am following this horse everywhere it goes this year, Ascot, Newmarket i be there. Cant wait let the excitement build up to what is bound to be a Great year for IRISH FLAT RACING.

I certainly wouldn't back any horse that won a Racing Post for the Guinneas.

But he does look an ideal Derby horse.

I wonder are they still eyeing up the Guineas?? surely not but i follow this lad with blind faith tbh. Nephrite is a fantastic looking prospect and they be certain to be ekking every bit of talent this lad has due to his nice cross for there mares if he could make into a Group 1 winner.

Watch this space.

any news on born to sea lads? guineas still the plan? thanks

I am with you on this Ruby, they may use a run in the Newmarket 200gns as a Derby prep......they do these sort of things,probably depend on how forward they want him to be, would love to see him going over for the Dante...... actually at the mo I am reading Camelot(all about JFk and his sad life) good read doh

forgot about this thread!

still believe born to sea ran as if amiss last time, whether there wasnt and oxx just offered excuses i dont know but i tend not to listen to trainers too much anyway. i believe he'll rin a cracker in the guineas,esp with the unvincible spirit influence, should be more suited to the race than his brother anyway, unlikely to have the same ability tho. still wide open race to me.

still fancy apollo for thr derby. nice horse!

any news on apollo,was he not supposed to run in france at the end of the season?

Imperial Monarch was a horse that impressed me when winning its maiden at HQ

Plenty of interest in Imperial Monarch.

Get your life savings on AOB Champion UK Trainer....it will happen this year. He go very close to the World Record me thinks as well.

Would nt be rushin AOB champion UK trainer with no So You Think to mop up a few weak G1s

Thats before your BJG. Is SYT confirmed to be retired.

Still be backing him to win it though. Just alters the price.

Australia's costliest export, So You Think, could be returning home earlier than anticipated. The whisper from Coolmore Stud is he could be the star stallion attraction at its Jerry Plains base this year alongside Fastnet Rock, Encosta De Lago and his ''dad'', High Chaparral.

So You Think won two Cox Plates before Dato Tan Chin Nam accepted an offer ''too good to refuse'' from Coolmore to buy a controlling share for a reputed $25 million and switch him to Aidan O'Brien's Ballydoyle training centre in Ireland.

His last Australian race start under Bart ****s was in the Melbourne Cup on November 2, 2010, when a gallant third to the French-trained Americain. So You Think made his European debut in the group 3 Mooresbridge Stakes, over 2000 metres, at The Curragh on May 2 last year and the result was a 12-length win from five rivals.

His next seven outings were all in group 1 races in England, Ireland, France and America. The results listed below show just how durable the entire was in all of his overseas races:

WON: May 2, 2011 - The Curragh, group 3 Mooresbridge Stakes, 2000 metres;

WON: May 22 - The Curragh, group 1 Tattersalls Gold Cup, 2100m;

Second: June 15 - Royal Ascot, group 1 Prince of Wales Stakes, 2000m, to Rewilding;

WON: July 2 - Sandown Park, group 1 Eclipse Stakes, 2000m, beating Workforce;

WON: September 3 - Leopardstown, group 1 Champion Stakes, 2000m, beating Snow Fairy;

Fourth: October 2 - Longchamp, group 1 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, 2400m, to Danedream;

Second: October 15 - Ascot group 1 British Champion Stakes, 2000m, to Cirrus des Aigles;

Sixth: November 5 - Churchill Downs (US), group 1 Breeders Cup Classic, 2000m, to Drosselmeyer.

Before heading to O'Brien, So You Think had won eight of his 12 starts under ****s, including five group 1 wins and group 1 placings in the Emirates Stakes and Melbourne Cup.

So You Think's overseas record of eight starts for four wins and two seconds and an extremely unlucky fourth in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe showed he was a worthy contender against the world's best middle-distance gallopers. His all-time record stands at 12 wins, four seconds and a third from 20 starts and earnings of $6,604,658.



Talk he will be sent to stud after the Dubai World Cup

Surprised by this tbh...thought he could win at least 3 British Group 1's this year.

Camelot Confirmed for 2000 Guineas just look at the Market for goodness sake!!!!!

#inaidenwetrust

Aidan O'Brien's Camelot is the star name among 63 entries for the Qipco 2000 Guineas at Newmarket on May 5.

Already a Group One winner thanks to his stunning victory in the Racing Post Trophy, the unbeaten colt currently heads the market for both the Guineas and the Investec Derby, and is one of 11 entries for the Ballydoyle handler as he chases a sixth win in the race.

Born To Sea, trained by John Oxx, and Jim Bolger's Dewhurst winner Parish Hall add to the Irish challenge, while Harbour Watch is among eight possibles for Richard Hannon.

French trainer Mikel Delzangles, successful with Makfi two years ago, has two contenders in Dragon Pulse, formerly with Jessica Harrington in Ireland, and Hermival.

The handler said: "The 2000 Guineas is a race we are considering for both horses. They will both run once before that in the trials - one will run in the Prix Djebel (Maisons-Laffitte, April 5) and the other in the Prix de Fontainebleau (Longchamp, April 15). We will see what happens there and then decide after that.

"Dragon Pulse has been with me for three weeks. I was impressed with his Irish form, and he looks like he is a very decent horse. He has not done any work for me yet, but physically he has all the looks and size to make a champion.

"Hermival won quite impressively at Saint-Cloud and I like him. He is not a show horse, but he is a very hard worker and if he improves he could be a very good horse. Although he won on heavy ground, I think he will be fine on better ground."

Another French possible is Nicolas Clement's French Fifteen, who has been bought by Sheikh Al Thani after winning the Criterium International Saint Cloud.

Clement said: "The plan now is to run him in the Prix Djebel (before Newmarket) and he is a colt who needs a true early pace to show his best. He has a good turn of foot and could be ridden by Olivier Peslier if he isn't claimed by the Wertheimer brothers as he now has a second retainer with Sheikh Al Thani."

Matusalen is the Spanish-trained entry for Mauricio Delcher Sanchez, who has already enjoyed significant success in Britain having saddled Equiano to success in the 2008 King's Stand Stakes at Royal Ascot

Aidan O'Brien's Camelot is the star name among 63 entries for the Qipco 2000 Guineas at Newmarket on May 5.

Already a Group One winner thanks to his stunning victory in the Racing Post Trophy, the unbeaten colt currently heads the market for both the Guineas and the Investec Derby, and is one of 11 entries for the Ballydoyle handler as he chases a sixth win in the race.

Born To Sea, trained by John Oxx, and Jim Bolger's Dewhurst winner Parish Hall add to the Irish challenge, while Harbour Watch is among eight possibles for Richard Hannon.

French trainer Mikel Delzangles, successful with Makfi two years ago, has two contenders in Dragon Pulse, formerly with Jessica Harrington in Ireland, and Hermival.

The handler said: "The 2000 Guineas is a race we are considering for both horses. They will both run once before that in the trials - one will run in the Prix Djebel (Maisons-Laffitte, April 5) and the other in the Prix de Fontainebleau (Longchamp, April 15). We will see what happens there and then decide after that.

"Dragon Pulse has been with me for three weeks. I was impressed with his Irish form, and he looks like he is a very decent horse. He has not done any work for me yet, but physically he has all the looks and size to make a champion.

"Hermival won quite impressively at Saint-Cloud and I like him. He is not a show horse, but he is a very hard worker and if he improves he could be a very good horse. Although he won on heavy ground, I think he will be fine on better ground."

Another French possible is Nicolas Clement's French Fifteen, who has been bought by Sheikh Al Thani after winning the Criterium International Saint Cloud.

Clement said: "The plan now is to run him in the Prix Djebel (before Newmarket) and he is a colt who needs a true early pace to show his best. He has a good turn of foot and could be ridden by Olivier Peslier if he isn't claimed by the Wertheimer brothers as he now has a second retainer with Sheikh Al Thani."

Matusalen is the Spanish-trained entry for Mauricio Delcher Sanchez, who has already enjoyed significant success in Britain having saddled Equiano to success in the 2008 King's Stand Stakes at Royal Ascot

Clearly hasnt learned his lesson from running SNA is the Guineas then

Or has he OnTheSnaff!!!

Touché
Needs to break the stat of Montjeu's never winning a Guineas.
and also,i wouldn't imagine many Montjeu's win over a mile as 3 year olds

None in group 1s anyway.

as short as Evens with most bookmakers,Has to be a massive lay at that price for reasons already stated in the past.

no word on APOLLO?

Been very quite re Apollo have coolmore ilwab,still in the Guineas by the looks of it,40/1.
also in a lot of the derby trials

i like him for the derby. i tweeted annmarie few months ago but got no reply.

granted i did ask her what she was wearing!

Surprising,as shes usually game ball for that kind of thing.
Them kind of folk dont normally reply to us peasants in fairness.

So lad Decision time. Who are we all on??

I looking at the double but I find Camelot the one that is my weakness. He only had 2 runs and has all the class in the world but Montjeu stat is important. The soft ground is ideal for him to make it more of a stamina test which it will be. Massive support for him.

Like Maybe more.

Just after been looking through the 2000 Guineas,Wow,what an awful race this looks on paper,
i wouldn't back anything in the race to be honest,but i'll be cheering Camelot home,
Not a hope i'd back him at his current odds though

john oxx will win his race imo.

its not even that the montjeu stat is just a stat, its the fact hes a stayer anyway and theres a reason he doesnt produce fast  yr olds. however prima donna who is a poster on the bloodstock forum and would be far more knowledgable that me regarding breeding says that montjeu wasnt getting great mares and thats why but this one could be diff so u gtta respect that along with the possibility of soft ground which would unquestionabily help.

i am still more than happy to take him on, the race doesnt look great but who knows what might be lurking.

i really like more to sea. its not just the sea the stars connection, the horse impressed immensely on debut and whether good enough or not in his nextrace, he never travelled and i thought that DURING the race and nt when it was mentioned afterwards. it was just obvious given how he travelled in his first race so im willing to accept it as an excuse this time, he might not be good enough anyway, we'll see.

v shrewd trainer tho and never goes to the uk unless he thinks it can win.

D day fast approaching...

Left Camelot and went for Maybe. Much more form to go on!

i was undecided between power and born to sea,went with power in the end,
Now just watch born to sea bolt up

well down camelot and j o' brien.

Well done all....Might heart was in my mouth and had nothing on him.

You created this thread and deserve great credit for getting it right months in advance,am disappointed you didn`t lump on but at least you have the satisfaction of spotting a champion well before the herd.

Wildman

I never thought he was a Guineas Winner. Never and could not back him. But Power,Top Offer and Born to See where no sighted and they were out the back but not as far as Camelot.

I was burnt with St Nicholas Abbey i am happy to see him win, hopefully Maybe will do the business tommorow.

Look how far back he came from and compare him to every other horse. He is a exceptional winner of the race and still was mighty green. Hopefully he be kept sound.

Off to book my Flights to Epsom now to see him in The Derby. Can Aidan do the Grand Slam of British Classics??

Just how good a stallion would Montjeu have been if he had been given the best mares from the outset, like his dad. Even Galileo did not got the best mares to start with, but they were better than Montjeu.

He really has proved the Magnier was very wrong in not supporting him and not being keen on standing him as a Coolmore flat stallion at the outset. Ballydoyle did not have any, or certainly not many from his first crop and possibly his second crop. The folly of this was soon evident however.

The sire did it the hard way and is a huge loss to breeding operations.

Derby Week....

I could do with this big win

There is no guarantee that Camelot will get the trip. Although on form, he is the higest rated horse in the race, his rating was achieved running over a mile. No one can be sure the step up to a mile and a half will suit. Will Ryan Moore, on Astrology be used as a pacemaker or will he be, in his own right, trying to win the race? I would be surprised if the former champion jockey was used as pacemaker. The fact that O Brien hasn't declared a couple more would suggest that they are not sure about Camelot's ability to stay and they dont want to set it up for one of the proven stayers. A lot of hold up horses in this race. If Astrology doesn't lead who will? A facinating race in store.

any word on Apollo ilwab

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze CAMELOT

Great horse, great ride

Well done Ballydoyle

Hope they go for the Leger with him

Great thread!!
Great horse too, a credit to his auld fella

A bit special.

star

1/3 to Complete the Triple Crown.

Happy Days Lads.

Very happy man today

Did you get a fancy price for the Derby?

Got 16/1 e/w then went in again after the Racing Post then went in again after the Guineas.

Thankfully for once the gods were smiling on me

wd ruby

Irish Derby next??

Then break and off to Irish Champion Stakes, St Leger and then finally Arc??

The Irish Champion Stakes and St Leger clashes most years doesn't it?

Irish Champion Stakes first weekend in September and Leger last weekend of September?

Could meet Frankel there??...in reality the St Leger should be a cake walk where he starts 1/10.

If he is given a good break if he goes to the Irish Derby he should be well up for 2 races in 3 weeks.

Maybe they run St Nick in Ireland or even one of the other horses but usually they target the very best at the Irish Champion. SYT will be gone home to OZ so a decision will have to be made.

Just had a quick look and Irish St Leger is 15th of Sep so Irish Champion Stakes is a week before hand.

Frankel vs Camelot over 10f in Leapardstown. WOW

No chance that they will said him for both.ST NICK for the breeders CAM for the arc and astrology for the champion stakes and probably the eclipse. I will be surprised if CAMELOT DOES;NT go for the treble given the ages of his owners...sentiment and all that.

Brian O'Connor and Kevin Blake took fairly opposite views on the Triple Crown this week.

http://www.irishracing.com/blog/blog/2012/06/04/triple-crown-sentiment/

http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/article.php?id=2007&cid=5

I just hope I get a chance to see him in the flesh at the Curragh, as I suspect he is one of the better horses I've seen in the last 20 years.

It's surely the Leger now. Nijinsky was a marvellous sire even though he won a leger.

We have been talking about him now for 42 years. Time to move on.

It's amazing that the American triple Crown can be done this week-end too. It must be 30 years since it was done. I think Affirmed chinned Alydar in all three by necks and heads. Alydar ended up being the better sire by a mile.

Still no word where he goes before the St Leger.

Personally i be disgusted if he does not go for the Irish Derby.

Don't disgrace yourself Aidan, remember who you are and you too John Magnier.

We need Camelot at the Curragh no matter how short he will be.

Looks all guns aiming at Curragh.

#easydecision

5 runs

4 Group 1's

3 Classics

2 Derby's

Hated that ground,His class and guts got him home in front.

Camelot has Colic and being operated as we speak according to Racing post.

Looks like his career is finished now and could well do well to survive this!

Triple classic winner Camelot was admitted to Fethard Veterinary Hospital this evening and underwent exploratory colic surgery

Well these guys beat all and that is all there is too it. Exploratory Colic surgery. They are the best of all time

Just wait till Silvergreaser reads this!

Giant Strides 23 Oct 11 09:08
In defence of myself and those who didn't believe the hype, the race did cut up considerably.
I was planning on backing Encke and would like to have seen him run but I'm not going to debate yesterdays form. It looks good to me. I suppose it's very easy to become cynical about Ballydoyle good things these days.
Good horse. Well done winners.
Again though. I don't get people investing in horses like this at 3/1 for a race next June!
No wonder bookies are minted. 

Why couldn't I have read that on Leger day!?

I'm not a betting man, but my guess he is saved, and retired to stud.

Famine now possibly turning into a feast. Won a crap race last year with a average horse.

Australia looks a step above, its a deeper 3 yr old crop. Camelot didn't beat a whole lot either............

O Briens stable has been in woeful form this year....horses looks ungenuine which is not the hallmark of Ballydoyle. I wonder are they diversfiying too much into different Stallions. War Front have been really well patronaged this year and they must have spent about 10 million usd all round on them. Yet to see a real top horse...stick with Galileo and his sons lads.

On an another note....Montjeu??

What a complete flop as a stallion of Stallions. So much money spent on Montjeu sons and while they won so many top races, they never done anything at Stud. Camelot prob will not deliver either if we look at past evidence.

From a business point of view....where they blinded?

3 in a row for Ballydoyle.

4 in a row for Coolmore.

Wouldn't bet against Aidan winning it next year either.