Flutter chief calls for major change and claims racing has become 'unprofitable' for bookmakers

He has a fair point - it must be difficult to make a good profit from something you don't take bets on or promote.

Casino and slots doing ok though? Anyone for Bingo? Free spins on the Mugs of Gold?

difficult to make a good profit with padi's bot placing all those losing £108 bets ...

just spunked a few more moving the Hun from 23 to 18.59  first beat.

A recipe for disaster for the same old reasons. Personal preferences but the people who spend fortunes owning horses rated below 65 are dismissed by all of this and result in thousands of lost jobs. Time for a redistribution of prize money in the sport would help though.

If the big bookies (now greedy to the point of being obscene) ran bus or train companies, we'd have a load of transport in the rush hours, but then nothing in the off-peak times!

If the big outfits have to break even or lose money on the low grade stuff, tough luck. They make plenty on the big meetings with large fields and impossible to find winners.

But too many clever-dick pundits - and fantasist punters - think the answer is large fields with an outrageous over-round.

Why do bookies sponsor so many big field handicaps? Because of the over-rounds and because winner-finding is much harder.

Remember, a 5/2 (for example) winner in a field of 8 at a small track is exactly the same profit for a backer as a 5/2 winner in a field of 16 at a big gaff!

I just wish punters would keep records of their betting, analyse them, and then be realistic about where they make any money - or where they lose the least. In neither case will it be the big field handicaps so loved by the bookies.

It quite true what Management says nobody can get on number reasons + restrictions = disaster cityville. My account with C is a classic example if you've lost that's not lost as lost more how much you have had on and withdrawn and ante post so don't do that anymore chunky AP bet means no money left almost immediately then their reminders which cheese me off just so much your limit is up stuff done your dosh for the month you have to wait for the 1st and the reset I just think that's that then cannot be arsed to even look now so you forget about them. How many more are doing that or similar? All needs a rethink be nobody left soon except the slot players. I've stopped a lot of recreational betting £50 on footie match for an interest just cannot be bothered now try and keep out of shops many are like homeless shelters now.

Why do bookies sponsor so many big field handicaps? Because of the over-rounds and because winner-finding is much harder. Bingo!

We say that horse racing is struggling as an industry.? I don't believe a word of that. I'm convinced, its shareholders pushing media streams to gain traction for more profits. The BIG meetings will always cover racings finances, hundreds of millions are bet.

I understand prize money etc is poor in low grade racing, but that's because it's low grade. (I like low grade and top grade racing by the way)  We still have plenty of owners shelling out hundreds of thousands for horses that will probably return to be a low grade handicapper.

We are also the 2nd best attended sport in the country, it's not where it once was crowd wise, but society has changed as regards of what to do with its time and money. Plus cost of living crisis and a global recession we are in, that is why attendances and betting turnover is down.

Also the age of the punter, does anyone under 40 follow the sport outside a good p1ss up at Cheltenham or RA and during the summer music festivals.
Can't see the 20 somethings having much interest in betting on the 2.10 at Beverley when they have a full football program to bet on.

Get rid of a few tracks and get some houses on them, Kempton or Sandown can't be far off

All of the racing industry if looking could see there was a problem brewing ages ago.
About 15 years ago there was a big push to promote all weather meetings especially on evenings so bookies had an excuse to keep their doors open as they had the FOBTS which had the roulette wheels etc in places casinos wouldn't get a licence. Also the reason you would see the same bookmaker set up another shop quite close by, as they were limited to FOBTs per shop / space.

If you actually went to one of those race meetings it was blatantly obvious that they were being run at a massive loss if they were being run on attendance. Sometimes I would say there was probably less than 20 people there that were not working at the course or connected to horses. I assume these were just propped up by the bookies through financial incentives whether to the course or BHA.

As Glasgow has mentioned the different bodies have a history of arguing over their share of the pie, and not necessarily what was good for racing and the long term interest of the sport. They are only starting to wake up as that once big pie, is now coming out of the oven a lot smaller, yet they are all still as hungry!

If the bookies are truly going to reduce the funding further, at what stage will horseracing have to look at reintroducing a TOTE system, and look after itself rather than rely on the goodwill of the bookies.

Funny how many comments over the years on here or in press saying that punters shouldn’t be considered as “they dont pay the bills” however this is reminder that they are crucial

I take your point Trident - but I think the "cost of acquisition" of a "punter" is ever decreasing for them with the internet, social media, barely regulated adverting, etc.

For sure racing was the original "gateway" to suck people in and "upsell" them - but I think media/technology now, means they don't need a gateway at all - they can attract the people they want directly to where they want them to be - i.e. slots and casino. No expensive and labour intensive "gateway" is required.

I posted in error on the other/similar thread - but in terms of "cost of acquisition":

They are no longer interested in a target audience that consisted of almost entirely middle aged/old men and had very limited hours of play - they can now go after every demographic (including women and young people), absolutely all of the time (24/7).

Horse Racing is not required and as a "gateway" is no longer part of the business plan or operating model.

longbridge • July 23, 2024 1:10 PM BST
If the bookies walked away from Racing it would be game-over.  There is no way the industry could be supported by the takeout on a Tote alone.

Agree, but unless the government is going to step in and regulate online gambling more, which could bring more punters to horse betting or football in the bookies. As well if you continue to see the bookies closing the accounts of the informed successful horse racing punter that is winning but has a genuine interest in the sport, and this is combined with 'horse racing in decline' and bookies reducing their share of payments you are going to create a vicious spiral.

At least if they had some sort of PMU like France or TAB like Australia the sport would have a mechanism to make sure a % of betting was reintroduced into the sport. Also as well you would give punters another way to get a bet on if they are being knocked back by the bookies.

It seems quite clear the bookmakers are looking at reducing their funding to the sport, if the people in charge of horse racing think they are bluffing as a negotiating tactic then time will tell.

Several posters have already mentioned ways to streamline the product which probably seems likely.

Yes transfer money from Wolverhampton to Ascot.

Management you are so right. Years ago the people i knew who got into slots/casino all got there through horse racing. Now i see younger people in the pubs playing slots on bookmaker apps and if i ask them if they like a punts on the horses the vast majority say no.

Was at a track last week and while watching the horses circle the paddock there was a bloke next to me (would say mid thirties) on his phone playing the slots.

As long as we have the exchange then why worry about bookmakers?

When i started work in the city in 1979, the people who all stuck together and got on, were those who all liked a bet on the horses,
45 years later we are all still best mates and enjoy racing, i ended up owning 2 betting shops and had shares in on course pitches.
My mates have gradually shied away from Racing as they've had restrictions and closure of accounts, none are arbers, some wouldn't know what it means.
After i sold my shops, my Saturdays and big midweek meetings were obsessed with buying the Racing post for about £1.50, looking at the price grid and working out where my lucky 15 would win more on the Guaranteed prices of which ever bookie returned more.
I'd be driving from one shop for one Lucky 15 and to another for another multiple, as they held the prices to 9.30 or 10am. Then they stopped the Guaranteed prices,
So i went online and used firms which Held there prices, then i got restricted or closed, some after 1 losing multiple.
So i got disillusioned. I stopped ordering the Racing Post every day, then Only on Saturdays, then i cancelled it altogether when it went over £4,
Now i hardly bet on multiples which was my favourite bet as i can't get on, even BF Multiples restrict me to 6p if i'm lucky.
SO GUESS WHAT.....I spend Saturdays and big Midweek meetings either going fishing or walking round a fete or going to watch my local non league team play.
AND THE FUNNY THING IS     I DON'T MISS IT.
And that's what the Bookies should be worried about, the likes of me and my mates not bothering.
Because i tell you now, My son and his mates and many others in there early 20s are not bothering with horses after the stories we tell them
about restrictions and closures. They'll have a bet on the football for a fiver or tenner and that's it.
My son and his mates love the idea of going racing and having a day out, but after the second time they stopped going.
£30 to get in, £7.50 a pint, £15 for small fish and chips in a piece of cardboard and another £30 to get there.
My boy said, they spent £120 each before they had a bet. So that's not on the agenda any more.
Shame really, the bookmakers want EVERYONE TO LOSE, Anybody who breaks even is restricted.
If they have 10,000 punters and 9,999 lose and one wins, he'll be closed down. PURE GREED.

A betting company which is not taking horseracing bets is squealing horseracing is a loss-leader what else can they expect? Imagine a fish and chip shop sells only fish but not chips because there is no profit in chips.

Or a bus company only operates routes that are profitable at certain times but does not operate other times. Similarly, train companies.

The transport regulator will tell these picky transport companies to sling their hook ie sod-off and return their franchises.

Why does the betting/gaming regulator not do that with bookies? There are far too many bookies and insufficient customers, according to Flutter. If so, those that do not want horseracing bets can apply for a licence to trade other betting alternatives eg slots, football, blackjack, etc.

How difficult is the above? Not the slightest, I'll say.

"Football is now the gateway drug, then some drift into racing, add in stag do type racegoer"

If so, just exclude themselves from horseracing. Let their other counterparts take horseracing bets. I'm very sure there are bookies ready and willing eg The Exchange and possibly newcomers probably from overseas eg Australia.