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I'm with comingupthehill.
Young people bet on football because they know football, they're enthusiastic about it, they follow it, long before they could bet on it. How many people who bet on racing had any interest in horses before they found it as a betting medium? And found it as a betting medium because it was the only show in town? As for restricting accounts - if Flutter (etc) are genuinely not making money on racing betting, how would they make more by taking any/more/bigger bets from winning racing punters? |
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Betting on horses for 50 years. I would never have persevered unless I thought I could beat the bookies. I'm back to where I was 40 years ago, except then I had to contend with 4% course and 9% shop- tax.
What that means is that the bookies are now taking the percentages in between. How is it acceptable that bookies work on a % per runner model? Then flood the mkt with the highest % races? I was lucky enough to get a second chance with 365.** Honestly, if it was not for the bumper profits it generates in the Orient facilitating their great offers on domestic racing, I would probably give up:- I'm not that good and I don't find it that interesting; and have no interest in losing. |
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It would be interesting to compare prices for the same races 40 years ago and now (for similar field sizes) and see if the market overround % has indeed increased.
But - to play devil's advocate - the bookies are being taxed to replace the tax the punter used to pay, so it shouldn't be surprising if it comes out the same in the wash? |
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Minimum bet limits were a saviour for many Australian punters. Faced with a situation where bookmakers simply refused to let them on if they had a successful record, they were suddenly free to bet (to the specified limit, anyway) and bookmakers had to accept.
Minimum bet limits for racing are implemented by racing authorities, and are therefore state-based. In Australia, if bookmakers wish to take bets on racing, they are required to sign agreements with racing authorities. Minimum bet limits have been implemented as part of these agreements. As a result, these limits aren’t uniform across all racing nationally. Minimum bet limits here would sort out the gangster outfits who are simply opening up under the guise of being a bookmaker, then refusing to take any sports bets .... but you're free to play the slots. So basically operating as an online casino with a bookmakers licence. |
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Flutter are just posturing has media rights due up for renewal.
When they say make nowt from racing. They could mean,our overheads are 100 million,and we only make 100 million from racing ,so we break even,but they don’t include all footy,sports bets,they are lumping all their overheads onto racing,even though they only take 30/40% of their trade from racing. Think the over round arguement is irrelevant,,crowds like big hcps,so why not let bookies sponsor them. The tax is irrelevant,they only pay it on profits,so if breaking even they pay no tax,if they make 50 million,they could just give Barry Orr a 50 million bonus,to avoid tax. The thread is,major change needed by flutter,what change do they want,why not tell us..basically just want to pay less media right by the look of it. Like I said posturing. |
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On the Flutter "we make nothing from Racing" thing.
I had a look at their 2023 Annual Report online. Their total UK and Ireland revenue from Sportsbook and "other" (which I guess is Exchange) excluding "iGaming" is about £1.2bn. I think it's fair to assume half of that is Football? So ~£600m to share out between Racing, Cricket, Tennis, Golf etc. That feels of the right order of magnitude for £140m in Levy, sponsorship and other Racing costs to wipe out the profit on that? |
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No, longbridge, more money bet on football etc but better margin on horseracing.
No horseracing, no betfair. |
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Maybe..but you’ll never see the books.
Imagine flutter says,we now don’t take bets on racing,but lump on the footy. A bacon butty shop,might break even on its bacon buttys,but rake it in on their egg buttys. Racing covers their core overheads,so it’s their bread and butty(pardon the pun).plus racing punters drift into over sports. But the main reason is,how possibly could they advertise they re a bookie,but don’t bet on horse racing,a bit embarrassing. |
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Bookies cannot pick and choose what bets they'd like to accept. Other industry providers eg retail, transport, energy, etc, do not, why bookies?
If the kitchen is too hot, just get out, bookies. And, stop whinging. Your service is not a necessity or an incentive. As such, leave if you so choose. You're no great loss. Alternatives aplenty. |
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They're only after addicted slot addicts these days. They don't want punters backing their judgement on live sports. Win or lose. They want you to lose your money THEIR way not YOUR way..
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But they can only attract these punters from their customer base,so they have to offer racing,even if it’s a loss leader,which is laughable,to attract them.
Their other problem is, They have a lot of vip punters,who bet a lot.which they can afford to lose.so they re scared of not offering odds in a class 6 seller in case one of these punters wants a bet on it,otherwise he might go elsewhere. Can’t really say to him,unlucky this week at chelt mate,only 100k down ,then say sorry got no odds on the seller at sedgfield tonight cos we don’t make any money on these races. |
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dambuster has hit the nail on the head.
Bookies churning through the punters and binning any they think might cost them a few quid, this is obvious with account closures and restrictions. This in turn is turning a lot of people who genuinely like horse racing away from the sport along with high costs at the course. Same will happen with horseracing levy / sponsorship, they're a business and if racing is blowing them money and not drawing in additional revenue and punters they will continue dropping their input. If the BHA / horseracing decision makers are relying on the bookies to be kind hearted and keep pumping it in they are in for a rough ride. |
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unitedbiscuits
Betfair haven't broken out their sport-by-sport revenue since forever - in 2011 they said Football revenue had overtaken Racing, but that was in the Exchange-only days. I thought - but don't know for sure - that Football was higher-margin for sportsbooks than Racing due to the growth of "same game multis" and the like? |
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"Yes transfer money from Wolverhampton to Ascot." That's the way it's going sparrow right or wrong. Fred Done said 2 weeks ago racecourses will go. Racecourses have all been in the same league. That will change. But the good news is when the smaller tracks get less money and "drop out " they may be able to race when they want to.
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