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In case of interest:
The UK Tote Group and Singapore Pools have signed a new agreement to commingle pools.
The agreement sees both organisations combine liquidity with customers of Singapore Pools betting into the UK Tote’s pools on British racing meetings. This creates bigger UK pools, ensuring a better customer experience for racing fans in the UK and in Singapore and an improved financial return to the sport.
The agreement was made in partnership with Arena Racing Company and Racecourse Media Group as the media rights holders for British racing’s 59 racecourses. Singapore Pools have been long-standing partners of British racing, hosting local pools on the sport. This collaboration between these stakeholders further deepens the relationship, benefiting racing fans and the sport.
Simon Leong, Chief Product Officer of Singapore Pools, expressed his enthusiasm for the new commingling arrangement with the UK Tote. He said, "We are delighted to collaborate with the UK Tote on this new front, which not only provides our customers access to larger pools but also contributes to British horseracing which have been telecasted in Singapore since 2010. We deeply appreciate our longstanding partnership with British racing and look forward to further strengthening the communal horseracing ties shared between us. Singapore Pools will continue to bring quality products from around the world to Singapore and elevate the racing experience for all."
The UK Tote Group and Singapore Pools have signed a new agreement to commingle pools.
The agreement sees both organisations combine liquidity with customers of Singapore Pools betting into the UK Tote’s pools on British racing meetings. This creates bigger UK pools, ensuring a better customer experience for racing fans in the UK and in Singapore and an improved financial return to the sport.
The agreement was made in partnership with Arena Racing Company and Racecourse Media Group as the media rights holders for British racing’s 59 racecourses. Singapore Pools have been long-standing partners of British racing, hosting local pools on the sport. This collaboration between these stakeholders further deepens the relationship, benefiting racing fans and the sport.
Simon Leong, Chief Product Officer of Singapore Pools, expressed his enthusiasm for the new commingling arrangement with the UK Tote. He said, "We are delighted to collaborate with the UK Tote on this new front, which not only provides our customers access to larger pools but also contributes to British horseracing which have been telecasted in Singapore since 2010. We deeply appreciate our longstanding partnership with British racing and look forward to further strengthening the communal horseracing ties shared between us. Singapore Pools will continue to bring quality products from around the world to Singapore and elevate the racing experience for all."
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If you were being honest you would mention the take out on these pools so your customers can see if it is a better customer experience as claimed.
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The take outs are very transparent & available…there’s also the SP guarantee so if our payout is under SP we match it. Also available via most major bookmakers. Racing industry also benefits directly. World Pool race days also offer huge value to the punter (races often even an ‘underound’. Very hard to see a negative in the Tote expanding its pool base globally &, thus, enhanced liquidity.
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westberks Joined: 08 May 08
Replies: 32024 Apr 24 12:49 The take outs are very transparent & available… When will this be happening and when will we know the take outs? |
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https://tote.co.uk/betting-terms-and-rules
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Have you told them that you are " seeding " the pools ( illegally imo ) ? Also have you told them where you can find out what pools and to what extent are being bet into by the Tote itself. ?
with 99% of the Tote wins i have seen being EXACTLY the same as SP its a complete waste of time imo. |
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Simply not true and again, totally, transparent here: https://totepoolliveinfo.com/ you can compare as much as you like stretching back years, should you wish.
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Pool deduction rate
19.25% (The net pool is therefore 80.75% of the gross pool) on races governed by the British Horseracing Authority. 20% (The net pool is therefore 80% of the gross pool) on races governed by the Horse Racing Ireland. Calculation of dividends The total of the funds invested plus any funds brought forward form the gross pool. If the gross pool is guaranteed to a particular amount, then this amount forms the gross pool unless the total of the funds invested plus any funds brought forward is greater than the guarantee. The net pool is divided by the total stakes on the winner of the race to obtain a calculated dividend. The calculated dividend is then rounded down to the next 10 pence to obtain the payable dividend declared to a £1 stake, with the following exceptions: (i) If the calculated dividend is greater than 90p and less than £1.10, the payable dividend will be £1.10. (ii) If the calculated dividend is 90p or below, the payable dividend will be £1.02. (iii) Notwithstanding (i) and (ii) above, in the case of a dead-heat for first place if the calculated dividend is 60p or below, the payable dividend will be 60p. (See rule on Dead-Heats below.) Holders of winning tickets are then paid in proportion to their stakes. If the winning horse is part backed, i.e. there is less than £1 of winning tickets in the pool, the net pool is the calculated dividend. In accordance with the rules above, this is then rounded down to the next 10 pence to obtain the payable dividend to a £1 stake. The balance of the gross pool which has not been won will be carried forward to another race as decided by Tote. The deduction from any pool is only taken at the time the funds are won, so this is added back to the net rollover to be included within a subsequent pool. Example 1: Suppose we have a Tote Win pool where the net fund available for distribution after the deduction has been removed is £1,000 and the total amount invested on the winning horse is £0.80. As the winning horse is part-backed, then the net pool of £1,000 is the calculated dividend. The total amount paid out on the winning horse is only (0.80 x £1,000) = £800, so the remaining £200 which has not been won will be carried forward to a subsequent Tote Win pool. The deduction from any pool is only taken at the time the funds are won, so the 19.25% deduction is added back to the net funds carried forward. Therefore the gross carry-forward in this example is £200.00 / (1 - 19.25%) = £247.68. If the winning horse is not backed, then the entire gross pool will be carried forward to another race as decided by Tote. Note that any guarantee is disregarded for the purposes of carry-forwards. |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSZPsAKWd8k
I would advise anyone betting with the Tote watch the video then decide. |
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The tote win pool dividends NEVER beat the odds on Betfair. Don't waste your time.
It's pretty easy to match s.p. when the s.p. odds are clipped last minute or so. There is absolutely no value in betting Tote odds. None. Someone with a degree in ten a penny qualifications like marketing should be ignored. |
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...so why do most pro racing punters ONLY bet into the pools nowadays? Cos they're banned from everywhere else. Jumping-cuckoo-monk clearly not even a restricted punter
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You're selling margarine as butter
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so why do most pro racing punters ONLY bet into the pools nowadays
How the feck would you know who is a pro punter? The fact you've made that statement shows how clueless you really are. There is no edge in win pools. NONE. Stop lying. |
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I bet on bf btw. This place. No restrictions to winners on here. You really are a berk
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Have I upset you btw about the uselessness of your marketing degree?
Use open university, get a decent degree so you don't have to spend half your useless career spamming lies on here, berk |
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"Stop lying"...interestingly aggressive, so let's take a World Pool day where many races have been bet as an underround...can you say there is no value in an underrounded book? (Please say 'yes')
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so let's take a World Pool day where many races have been bet as an underround.
Show me evidence, your claims mean NOTHING |
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Tell us how many millions the tote have made by seeding the pools( please tell us)Is this information private if so why?
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Its just stats, darling: https://totepoolliveinfo.com/ look up any World Pool day & see: Royal Ascot. 29/07/2023 King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes Day. 01/08/2023 Goodwood Cup Day. 02/08/2023 Sussex Stakes Day. 03/08/2023 Nassau Stakes Day. 23/08/2023 International Stakes Day.24/08/2023 Yorkshire Oaks Day. 25/08/2023 Nunthorpe Stakes Day. 09/09/2023 Irish Champion Stakes Day. 07/10/2023 Sun Chariot Stakes Day. 21/10/2023 British Champions Day. Next up: 04/05/2024 2000 Guineas Day.
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The pros must be loving it. A few races 6 months a part. I'll have a look at your "data" in a bit
What about the pros who want to make a profit in the other 350 days a year? Got the data on non-world pool underrounds petal? |
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This thread is about Singapore betting into everyday British pools that provide godawful value in all tote markets which have been seeded close to the off by the Tote.
Why seed near the off? To bet at 80p in the pound on value of course. Lovely algorithms. Seeding should be done at the start of the day to attract custom Not near the off to take the cream. Bet on betfair odds is my advice. You might not get much on but getting plenty on at poor value is worse! |
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"6 months a part"...totally understand differing view points but that's just silly...yes, its Flat only (& many more that are non-UK which can still be accessed from here, mind)...but, fair, only make it your port of call on World Pool days, that's fine too
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Let me get this straight. You say the majority of pro-punters bet into pools.
1) How do you know this? 2) If you do know, then are they making profits from every day non-world pool tote pools? 3) If so show me the underrounds on British racing tote pools. I find it hard to believe that pros earn enough on world pool days when there are so few of them. |
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First 6 months of 2024: https://worldpool.hkjc.com/news-content.aspx?in_file=20240125150000.html&b_cid=CSLDSPA_2122WPOOL_Home_News ...try it next month (both Guineas days & see what you think)...esp Swinger and Quinellas (mostly over a £1M in the pot for each, do check)...if you don't like/see no value, no worries, but there's a reason 20+ countries are involved (IMO)
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So no data except for World Pool. gotcha
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There was a reason thousands of intelligent people got ripped off billions by Bernie Madoff, but if you can't see they were conned then I can't help you.
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...conceding on World Pool then? Its a start!
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(this very site offers pool betting access cos people do want a Placepot etc etc & also rely on liquidity, so back to the original point: Added liquidity is good for all)
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Some anomalies a few times year hardly substantiate your claim that most pro-bettors play the pools after being restricted at the books
That's just an outright lie. You seed the pools late and clip the s.p.s Sketchy or allegedly corrupt behaviour. It will be interesting seeing the downfall of the Tote Answer the following bullet points. The subject pertaining to this thread you started Let me get this straight. You say the majority of pro-punters bet into pools. 1) How do you know this? 2) If you do know, then are they making profits from every day non-world pool tote pools? 3) If so show me the underrounds on British racing tote pools. I find it hard to believe that pros earn enough on world pool days when there are so few of them. Finally can you explain the wild disparity I often see between the tote win GUIDE to the returned tote dividends? Very rare to see the odds lengthen in the punters favour. Is this variation a result of your last second seeding and snipping of value or is it the old "lag" computers doncha know?> |
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At least westberks has had the dignity to reply to most of the questions. Thankyou.
Sadly but unsurprisingly the seeding question remains unanswered. |
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'westberks ungagged'
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'westberks debagged'
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It is only fair at this stage to acknowledge that the homespun notion of a Tote where small-scale, casual punters could bet between themselves is ancient history, and has been for at least 20 years. There are big professional operators using automated programs of their own to squeeze cash from every major pool betting system on the planet. In many cases, the operators actually pay them to play, via rebates, because of the precious liquidity they bring to the pools.
But it is unusual, to say the least, for the pool operator itself to get involved in the same way. And although its precise mechanics are not verifiable, being in a position to see exactly how the big players operate could presumably give give the Tote’s programmers a decent head start on them. Now few tears will be shed over that, but it still leaves no one the wiser about exactly how much the Tote is making from PGS, what proportion of the money in its pools is “proprietary”, or why PGS is continuing now that crowds are back on track. If the Placepot pool at Cheltenham, for instance, really requires “seeding”, then the game is surely up. For the sake of fairness and transparency, these are all questions that deserve an answer. |
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When all the Tote detractors on here can explain in some detail what difference it makes to the end user i.e the punter it appears to be a lot of accusations with no evidence to show the take out or so called "seeding" has any detrimental effect on dividends?
In reality, the fact they match SP is a big improvement on what the Tote used to be when Lord Wyatt was running it albeit it should never have been sold off as there was a charter that said it belonged to the British Public. Anyway maybe you can clarify GC? Explain how the pools are being "seeded" etc and how the Tote benefit from risking their own money to boost pools other than encouraging more bettors to play? There may be an argument that there is no risk due to the takeout percentage but can that be substantiated. At the end of the day the big players and the Tote themselves do not know the results any more than the casual punter does before races start? |
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westberks, I'll be happy to debate on tv, why it's insider trading on the placepot.
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Debate it here Clydebank? Explain why you think insider trading is possible?
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All your questions are answered on the video which I posted on this thread earlier ....
April 24, 2024 1:48 PM BST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSZPsAKWd8 |
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I have no interest or trust of YT videos GC, are you saying that you have no actual evidence of your own regarding the accusations made?
I am genuinely intrigued and interested because everything I have read on here for ages is repeated again and again but I have yet to see anybody give definitive examples of what they claim and try as I might I cannot see what the Tote are doing that is detrimental to punters. |
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If you have no interest in the video then wtf will people waste their time trying to educate you
If you are genuinely intrigued and not being a contrarian from the get go watch the vid |