In Running at a new level this week.

Thanks Hibby, now the big gun tmrw. By all accounts JS very hopeful and most of all think I speak for most when wanting it to reverse the bumper form with Dysart Enos who is half her price.

the prices are ahead of the pitures.

FACT.

Then its time to ban/restrict in running on horse racing.

In-play prices are then generated from the GPS data by RMG’s pricing partner Pythia Sports and served to bookmakers via the Press Association.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------...

all the best for tomorrow doorman...

good to see the small lads doing well...

even tho he must be over 6ft tbh.

Rico-Dangleflaps Apr 24 14:49

no TPD synced to an API etc etc

im going 1.00001 it is.

----------------------------------

BOOM BOOM shake shake the room.

In-play prices are then generated from the GPS data by RMG’s pricing partner Pythia Sports and served to bookmakers via the Press Association.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

how the hell will jamee explain this news ?

Thanks, fingers firmly crossed.

and for those saying Ireland doesn't have GPS...

RTV has the speed figs during the race...

hello...????

great work there Jack btw...

god knows where you found that but it's very interesting to say the least.

Someone needs to tell Hibs about speedometers and how much they don't use GPS.

all prices are controlled..obviously vastly exacerbated in the last 2f or so..everything has now been stripped from the market late on..there is plenty to lose and pences to win.

HappyHibby • April 11, 2024 3:11 PM BST
Rico-Dangleflaps Apr 24 14:49

no TPD synced to an API etc etc

im going 1.00001 it is.

----------------------------------

BOOM BOOM shake shake the room.


I said TPD, and I was right it's Course Track.

if anyone disagrees then that isnt a prob..just crack on.

Time to hang up your mouse then, Rico?

In-play prices are then generated from the GPS data by RMG’s pricing partner Pythia Sports and served to bookmakers via the Press Association.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

how the hell will jamee explain this news ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

james ?

not going to comment on this ?

seen you on at least 2 occasions telling Mr.Hunt he was wrong...

well would you believe it he was right all along.

You sent
Back (Bet For)
Odds
Stake
Profit
Flash Gorcombe
1.24
£2,500.00
£603.55
Total stake:
£2,500.00

jussed wait a a descent foto...

If i was Jamee i'd say nothing on the topic and keep what he knows to himself.

Rico relentless on the photo's   

Your balls are twice as big as mine, Rico.

Flash Gorcombe
*1.28    1,100.00    Back   
11-Apr-24 15:23
311.13

I remember reading the article at the time. The in-house bots have been using GPS to make the market for many years, the problem with in-running now is that all the casual money has dried-up because they have been restricted by affordability checks or they have given up trying to compete against the GPS bots and the drones, leading to pathetic levels of liquidity.

i generally find it's more interesting to listen to what folk DON'T say as opposed to what they DO say...

james has just confirmed that.

oh it's a great find Jack...

i'm very grateful you remembered it tbh.

do you have a link to the article at all Jack ?

Jack Bauer "24" • April 11, 2024 2:54 PM BST
There is some misinformation on this thread. This article about RMG is from a year ago.
https://www.racecoursemediagroup.com/news/blog/racecourse-media-groups-innovative-new-in-play-betting-service-welcomed-by-bookmakers/

surprised you haven't commented james...

considering you poo poo'd Mr.Hunt a couple of times...

looks a bit silly tbh...

is Hayden your advice guru now ?

Jamee certainly doesn't need any advice from me Hibby , was just commenting that if i knew everything he knew about this topic i'd not be posting on a public forum i'd be keeping it all to myself.

Call me selfish and just out for myself and you'd be 100% correct   

jamee1 • April 11, 2024 11:07 AM BST
Will add that GPS is not yet readily available on RMG tracks...

Sorry Hibs, it's been a little bit busy this afternoon, you may have noticed?

I stand by what I said, that GPS is not readily available on RMG tracks. To believe that RMG GPS bookmaker data is affecting Exchange prices you have to believe that either Betfair use it to play in their own markets, or that 3rd parties are getting hold of this data with a latency of less than 500m/s to beat the drone. To me this seems unlikely until it is being sold via API like TPD do with ARC track data today. But, of course, none of us really know, we just have a view. 

Either way, Swifty summarised it best for me, with a very pragmatic "It is what it is". At the end of the day it matters not what causes the prevailing conditions, but whether one can trade successfully within them.

and if Betfair were using this on the exchange what would your view be james ?

I repeat, its time to ban or restrict in running on horse racing?

Apr 11, 2024 -- 4:53PM, HappyHibby wrote:

and if Betfair were using this on the exchange what would your view be james ?

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer.

so whatever goes on on the exchange james view is...

it is what is is ?

Celtic lose the league due to a dodgy last minute penalty...?

it is what it is ?

simply beggars utter belief that anywun with an IQ of more than 20 who plays IR and sees the market in the last 2f of ev race isnt sure if its being controlled.

controlled, manipulated by some... very probably, but do they know the result 2 furlongs out? Absolutely not.

it is what it is mr.Hunt...

Diego maradona hand of god...

no point moaning lads...

it is what it is.

Alan Bates and all the Subpostmasters who got screwed over...

just get on with it guys...

it is what it is...

Wink away Hibby. If you spent less of your time whinging and worrying how everyone else was doing you might pinch a few quid.

If you think it's all so corrupt then you wouldn't touch it. You'd be getting out that white flag you've been threatening to wave for what seems like an eternity.

Jinxy1 • April 11, 2024 4:57 PM BST
I repeat, its time to ban or restrict in running on horse racing?

what exactly does that mean? because you can't win , no one else should be able to? So long as Betfair advertise that other people/businesses may have advantages not available to Joe Punter, then bet at your own risk.

I/Running just like A/Post or 5 mins' before the off,you haven't got
to do it.

I'd be totally against pulling in-running even though i never get involved myself , it has to up to the individuals to realize the disadvantage or that they're crap at it and withdraw themselves.

I'd never penalize anyone for finding a way to win regardless of what others thought   

Jinxy1 • April 11, 2024 4:57 PM BST
I repeat, its time to ban or restrict in running on horse racing?

what exactly does that mean? because you can't win , no one else should be able to? So long as Betfair advertise that other people/businesses may have advantages not available to Joe Punter, then bet at your own risk.



Does Betfair actually advertise (meaningfully) that 'other people/businesses may have advantages not available to Joe Punter',

Pre-race traders rely on in-running for their model to work. And they may not even watch the race in-play. Why take that away because some people have been left behind by technology?

Jinxy, I'd agree, no not clearly enough, but anyone with an ounce of sense, would think how come I play the same way I used to when I won and now I'm losing, without smelling a rat?
Admittedly I knew for a fair while playing at the ARC tracks but thought I could buck the trend, but I saw the light.

Does Betfair actually advertise (meaningfully) that 'other people/businesses may have advantages not available to Joe Punter',

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it's a fair Q imv Jinxy.

Apr 11, 2024 -- 6:10PM, swiftynifty wrote:

Pre-race traders rely on in-running for their model to work. And they may not even watch the race in-play. Why take that away because some people have been left behind by technology?

maybe but then you get a scenario like today where the horse winning the bumper at Aintree in a million traded race only hit 1.01 for three k.

that doesnt sound like pre race traders relying on an in running model.

It sounds more like an in running model relying on in play traders.

all the 1.0X players can scrap it out among themselves, i'm talking about form students who trade, their trading done well before any 'unfair' advantages may kick in, or race readers (who know to get their business done early too)

On top of this, Pythia also has access to non-public data which are constantly being worked through in an attempt to develop high quality signals for exchange trading.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so does this data include live feedback from the horse as to how they're feeling in the race? Use your own eyes and don't leave it too late.

Apr 11, 2024 -- 6:23PM, swiftynifty wrote:

all the 1.0X players can scrap it out among themselves, i'm talking about form students who trade, their trading done well before any 'unfair' advantages may kick in, or race readers (who know to get their business done early too)

great we will leave it at that so

no need to ban IR..caveat emptor.

if anyone knows what 'non-public data' is then please enlighten me ?

Hibby , it's an NDA between 2 parties with the intention of shafting people if possible!

But as I've said it's only data , it may influence live markets but trust it at your peril

Apr 11, 2024 -- 7:27PM, HappyHibby wrote:

if anyone knows what 'non-public data' is then please enlighten me ?

So it sounds to me like Coursetrack collect the GPS data which Pythia then apply to their own non-public models and algorithms. This produces a price feed which they sell to bookmakers to enable them to offer an in-running market to customers.

In theory I guess there's nothing to stop Pythia using this data to trade directly into Betfair exchange markets using their own API. But in my experience of GPS data I would be very surprised if it's accurate enough to be consistently profitable.

Pythia also has access to non-public data

------------------------------------------

doesn't sound like that to me james...

sounds to me like it's data the public don't get to see.

It's all data that the public doesn't get to see Hibs. The GPS data is commercial only, the algorithms will be private to Pythia, and the price feed will be between them and the bookmaker only. The only thing the public gets to see is the prices available in the bookmaker's c.150% market.

non-public data doesn't sound good to me james...

i'm not saying you are wrong...

but it certainly could do with clarification for someone not clued up about all that sort of stuff like me.

Just looked in on B365 in-play in that last Chelmsford race. They pulled all their prices exactly 1f out which doesn't say much for their trust in the accuracy of their GPS pricing feed.

Will be interesting to see if they disappear exactly 1f out again in the next.

Rico been saying this for years. He's been mopping up bot money for years. He had it great for years.

Just needs  a new cistern

Many on ere have called what he's been doing for 20 years as theft.

He just found an edge and took it.

He's took some money off most of us. We all know the time difference.

someone please explain to me how you bet IR with b356 1f out?

someone please explain to me how you bet IR with b356 1f out?

----------------------------------------------------------------

with the RMG / Parthia / Coursetrack computer game stuff i'm guessing Mr.Hunt...

and their non-public data.

What percentage book they run with in last few furlongs.

Remember big mart cleaned out paddy poweron a daily basis inrunning

it's just all a bit wink nudge nod for my liking all this stuff tbh...

a conspiracy theorist would have a field day with it tbh.

if Betfair still did the yearly Q+A they said they would do about 6 years ago we could ask them about  the elephant in the room...

pity they stopped it after year 1.

one of the Q's was...

why don't you bin the 1 sec in running delay...?

i remember jamesdean mentioned that when he was on here...

he found it a bit strange that when everyone said 'scrap it'...

they chose not to.

they said there'd be no layers and no liquidity, but they knew that already

An exchange needs people to put up offers as well as just taking. I expect the 1 sec advantage of cancelling vs taking is there to encourages more people to put up offers.

Apr 11, 2024 -- 8:07PM, jamee1 wrote:

Just looked in on B365 in-play in that last Chelmsford race. They pulled all their prices exactly 1f out which doesn't say much for their trust in the accuracy of their GPS pricing feed.Will be interesting to see if they disappear exactly 1f out again in the next.

B365 pulled their prices about 1.5f out in the last Chelmsford race. It was a 2m vs 7f though so it still could be automatic.

The prices on offer were pretty good, about 110% book and sometimes you could even get a better price than on Betfair.

https://www.tpd.zone/faqs/ has a load of info -found it with a bit of googling. Very interesting especially how it interfaces with Gruss etc

1 sec bet delay for the robot to analyse ev bet request in a millsec and decide if any of it would be suitable for them..a grate cistern and very transparent.

If they are not active in their own markets and operating without a delay, they should run a trial for a few weeks without the bet delay and see what happens to liquidity and whether most customers would prefer no delay.

when notfair started its, aside from laying, i/r was the greatest thing for punters and a million people immediately thought they now had a chance as everyone thinks they can read the race, but few reckoned with the picture problems, including bert black

if notfair had sewn up pics and retained analogue there would have been no track players or droners and who knows what could have happened. hd was a disaster

if everyone is at the same level, i suspect many more would have kept at it, learning as they go if necessary (i had never looked at a pc pre-notfair and had to pay someone for 2 days tuition just on the basics) and we wouldnt be where we are now

the figures at the outset were incredible but almost all did their money betting miles behind. but you cant knock those who took advantage. i wasnt one but know of a few who were, and they hoovered it

it's a very fair comment Jack...

will it ever happen ?

of course it won't...

still wondering why they announced an ANNUAL Q+A session...

when did it last happen ?

laughable...

in fact the more i think about it it might have even been a 6 monthly Q+A session...

you can ask us anything you want...

all our top lads are here waiting for your Q's...

one session and it's binned.

why would you announce such a thing then bin it almost immediately ?

some of the Q's that were asked were a bit on the tricky side perhaps ?

or did they just forget about it and nobody thought to mention it ?

i found the last Q+A session...

appears it was 2021 (time must be dragging)...

here are a few i thought were interesting...

1. Q: Does Betfair allow in-play seeding from affiliates with preferential trading advantages? Like no in-play bet placement delay?



A: Thanks for the question. All customers on the Exchange bet with identical bet delays, matching queues and settlement rules. We promote a level playing field as the USP of our Exchange vs our competitors.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 Q: Can we have these Q&As every 6-12 months as there are always suggestions and questions that we would like to ask?


A: Absolutely, looking forward to restarting these and hearing from you all. If the demand is there we will run again.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Q: Many thanks, it is good to see you doing this again, it has been a long time since the last one.


A: No problem, we are trying hard to get more customer insight than ever before and this prompted the recommencing of these. We hope you enjoy this evening and if the demand exists we will run again soon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Q: When you asked about removing  the 1 second bet delay on the forum a few years ago , 99% of people were in favour . yet you decided  not to remove it as the market makers didn't want it. is there a compromise we could have like a 0.5 second delay or remove it altogether as a trial?



A: Great suggestion. We are currently exploring some options to improve the bet placement and management experience, (including bet delays and cash out suspensions), we will add that into the considerations for potential improvements.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. Q: Premium charge - why is no effort being made to reform or abolish this charge? It obviously makes vast amounts for the company but is detrimental to the liquidity of the exchange. It is due a revamp at least, and you all know it. An annual amount that is PC exempt??




A: Thanks for the question, Premium Charge is something we discuss a lot with customers. We posted a response earlier to something similar but happy to cover it again here this evening.

We have performed three premium charge trials recently where we have changed the charging mechanisms to encourage liquidity. What we observed was no change in the customer behaviour or liquidity from those invited to the trial.

We continue to evaluate and consider new trials and would welcome any ideas from customers that can benefit the Exchange and therefore our customers and Betfair together. We are very happy to collaborate on initiatives to genuinely  improve the Exchange liquidity.
One area we have more recently invested further in is our detection for PC evasion, I'm prompted to mention this to you from your comment on an annual PC allowance. This is something I will ask the team to consider now that we have better detection of account movements which would have historically made such an initiative too easy a method for PC evasion and thus creating an unfair exchange for our customers.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for submitting your questions this evening. We have restarted these sessions to make sure we get your feedback to help inform what you, our customers, want us to focus on.

We appreciate we don’t always get things right, but we are all committed to continuing to improve.

We hope you found this useful, we certainly did. A fair range of topics covered and we plan to run these Forum Open Evenings more regularly. We were also just discussing as a team whether there would be interest in doing a similar session on Zoom in the future. As ever, thank you for your continued support of Betfair.

4. Q: When you asked about removing  the 1 second bet delay on the forum a few years ago , 99% of people were in favour . yet you decided  not to remove it as the market makers didn't want it. is there a compromise we could have like a 0.5 second delay or remove it altogether as a trial?



A: Great suggestion. We are currently exploring some options to improve the bet placement and management experience, (including bet delays and cash out suspensions), we will add that into the considerations for potential improvements.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 years later...

any update yet ?

1. Q: Does Betfair allow in-play seeding from affiliates with preferential trading advantages? Like no in-play bet placement delay?



A: Thanks for the question. All customers on the Exchange bet with identical bet delays, matching queues and settlement rules. We promote a level playing field as the USP of our Exchange vs our competitors.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

absolutely.

so i had a look at companies house for Coursetrack and i also looked at the RMG management team...

interesting that some names are on BOTH ?

unless i am reading it incorrectly (which is a possibility)...

not suggesting there is anything iffy about it but it is interesting all the same.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09926293/officers

https://www.racecoursemediagroup.com/who-we-are/management/

All customers on the Exchange bet with identical bet delays

--------------------------------------------------------------

all customers...

next Q...

is everyone using the exchange a customer ?

i can still recall back in 2005 when the satellite gadgy was putting my motorised dish up..then when he finally located 20w and the race appeared 3 secs ahead of what everybody else was using and i think i ejaculated...

happy daze those were.

Good, no more easy money for IR thieves. You gotta learn the game like the rest of us, or hang up the boots.

rico boasting about 3 million with a 3 second advantage.

size 14 gaze..too heavy for the hanger.

that's like tennis courtsiders back in the day

everybody needs an edge gaze...even a razor blade.

Yeah, but an edge should be gained by skill, experience and knowledge of the game, not by a measurable unfair advantage.

ewe nshud try and sharpen your skills.

so i had a look at companies house for Coursetrack and i also looked at the RMG management team...

interesting that some names are on BOTH ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

either i'm the only person who found it interesting or other folk who normally voice an opinion have given their tongue to the cat...

strange.

Rico-Dangleflaps12 Apr 24 09:34Joined: 07 Sep 18 | Topic/replies: 34,125 | Blogger: Rico-Dangleflaps's blog
i can still recall back in 2005 when the satellite gadgy was putting my motorised dish up..then when he finally located 20w and the race appeared 3 secs ahead of what everybody else was using and i think i ejaculated...

ive got a motorised dish with a good lnb and a couple of decent receivers if anyone wants them, don't use now

not even for the 7 e feed for atr thats over 4 secs in front?

i use mine as an umbrella wen im fishing.

Apr 12, 2024 -- 12:56PM, elise wrote:

ive got a motorised dish with a good lnb and a couple of decent receivers if anyone wants them, don't use now

Does it pick up any other sport feeds that would be useful for trading ? Tennis, football, USA racing!