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Dear Racing Post readers,
Dear Racing Post readers,
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So what should the bookmakers be doing, TM ?
What is the solution? I don’t blame betfair. I blame the gambling commission, the government, and the anti gambling campaigners and the media who have supported them. I’ve told you that before. You are aware of the recent court case involving betfair? People like you are saying they should be using their algorithms to intervene. Now they are intervening. This is what happens if you call for bookmakers to identify addicts, people who don’t want their accounts closing, get closed. Addicts then just find somewhere else to gamble. It’s a terrible solution. But this is what is being called for. |
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Only three reasons people become addicted to gambling in any form 1.They win early on and think it is easy, subsequently find the opposite and start chasing losses. 2.Lose early on and chase losses as per 1. 3. Enjoy the thrill but end up as per 1 & 2.
Most addicts of gambling are chasing losses and many have told the story that they kept going in the hunt for the big win that would clear their debts/ losses and they could give up. A vicious cycle that is never ending but nevertheless self inflicted, blaming the bookies the standard get out clause because they have no self control. So in effect a tiny minority are causing grief for the vast majority and a hugely important industry i.e the racing and bloodstock industry, the GC are doing the job for animal rights lunatics et al. Complacency and self interest as on here will achieve nothing as will doing nothing so writing reams of self opinion is as much use as tits on a bull TM et al. |
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soon be asking someone to prove they can afford a packet of paracetamol b'cos others have a 2 grand a week cocaine addiction.
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A lot of that is not far wrong Cag - but I disagree with you category 3 definition.
The old style fruit machine addict (we all must have known one) - it was 5 pence per spin and the jackpot was £1. Once he is £10 down - which category does he fall into iyo? Why is he still playing? He didn't win early (so he's not category one). He's not category two because he can't win back his losses (it's mathematically impossible). He's just addicted to the feeling that playing that machines gives him - it's chemical and biological. In some (extreme cases) he can even get that chemical buzz from watching somebody else play the machine. That is category 3. |
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and there are more than 3 categories btw.
I really do have to go - so you can now accuse me of running scared of your intellectual might!  |
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Gambling by skill(e.g. horse racing but I will use the word 'skill' lightly) should be separated from all gambling by chance, they should be separately licensed. Ban all freebies and all advertising for games of chance should be forced to prominently display(half the page) average returns per £100 staked etc. If people are still too stupid to play them then there's no helping them.
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Swify - I respect your views, enjoy your posts (very much like your sense of humour).
But the fact that a fella with a First Class Degree in mathematical probability from Oxford can still get addicted to playing roulette - imo, that debunks the theory that stupidity plays a large part in propensity to become addicted to gambling. |
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Gambling by skill should be separated from all gambling by chance.
100% lumping everything together is just ridiculous. FOBT's are designed to get the person playing them addicted ffs. then they turn round and say hang on you need to prove you can afford a tenner on a horse b'cos too many are getting addicted to FOBT's  |
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Likewise the fella that works 60 hours per week to sponk his entire wages on a Saturday morning at Hackney dogs - debunks the theory that laziness plays a large part in the propensity to become addicted to gambling.
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also debunks the theory that AC's are to protect problem gamblers when they can simply wander along to their nearest racetrack / casino / newsagent (scratchcards) / amusement arcade and easily find an alternative way to feed their addiction
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" Gambling by skill should be separated from all gambling by chance "
Don't start a thread debating that differential or it'll go on for 10 years. One of the most subjective terms i've ever seen posted on the forum. Good luck today all  |
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That’s called an anomaly
The vast majority who play the gambling games have little grasp of logic nor probability. They used to call it a lack of savvy, or gumption or common sense. Referring to a lack of it as stupid is good enough since it cures most of the stupid choices made. |
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TM, I don't disagree some people are wired for addiction, I've no idea what the solution is, unfortunately it looks like no one else does either.
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you can't afford £10 on a horse. ok, i'm off down the boozer to stick £300 in the fruit machine.
protected ? |
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Further proof it is infact stupidity is the fact there are advice for help with the ‘affliction’.
Yet they ignore it and continually do their brains in Whether they get a chemical kick out the prospect of playing for money or not, the outcome is obvious to them by the pain it creates, if they still don’t seek help….then that’s a good enough factor to call them stupid imo. |
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swiftynifty23 Sep 23 13:34Joined: 16 Jan 07 | Topic/replies: 8,266 | Blogger: swiftynifty's blog
TM, I don't disagree some people are wired for addiction, I've no idea what the solution is, unfortunately it looks like no one else does either. Here endeth the thread. Totally agree, the people we are all relying on to find a workable solution either have no idea wtf they are doing or they are bookmakers, that know perfectly well what they are doing but don't want to find a solution! |
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Why don’t you help them out then, the management.
What is the solution? |
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They (the bookmakers) don't like the solution and therefore won't put forward the solution (as you well know) - it involves bookmakers actually being bookmakers. Sadly, as you keep pointing out - that just leaves the anti-mob to come up with and impose their completely unworkable alternative.
Pretty much everybody on this thread has already posted the most workable solution. It's not perfect, the solutions to difficult problems rarely. Life is nowhere near as clear cut (black and white, left or right) as you and dusty would like us to believe - but it's a feck sight more workable than anything currently being proposed. |
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There’s a saying; the medicine is worse than the cure.
All they are doing is transferring a small problem into a much larger one that’s felt well beyond those with the problem…..and still not fixing those with a problem. |
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*worse than the disease ffs
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Correct dusty - left to their own devices as they have been up until now, to find a workable solution, the anti-mob, the GC and the govt are basically proposing a solution to shoot everybody dead, in order to stop them catching the disease.
If only there was another party (that understood the true reality) and was involved in the consultation process.    |
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Still not offering any solutions of your own, TM.
Just more of your anti bookmaker rhetoric. |
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Yes, the GC would have suggested it had they actually wanted that.
*it still wouldn’t have solved the problem even then since the problem gambler would still go elsewhere Short of cutting their hands off or marching them into rehab what COULD they do? |
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Yeah BR - I'm off to lunch with Carolyn Harris and then I'm going to confiscate some guide-dog puppies from the blind children. Have a good life.
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There's none so blind, as those that cannot see.
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The bookies are the cause of AC; the bookies are now the executor of AC; the executor is also the judge and jury of AC.
The murderer is the catalyst of capital punishment; the murderer is now also the judge and jury of capital punishment; the murderer is now dishing out capital punishment. Come to the real world of horseracing, and bookies' dominance. This scenario resembles that of a dysfunctional family with a penchant for self-destruction. |
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If The Racing Post makes a tweet you can respond to it. If the Gambling Commission makes you can't.
The 3% and 0.3% mentioned is complete garbage, as they should, and almost certainly do, well know. |
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I think that's very true CB29 - BUT I also think it's a tricky one for the on-line bookmakers to argue.
Obviously those percentage are indeed utter garbage - totally skewed by all the dormant and practically dormant accounts. But by the same token if you exclude all of those dormant accounts - you have to wonder what the percentage of "problem gamblers" would be (measured purely by % of active accounts). By definition, none of the dormant or once a year types are "problem gamblers". So if you were to recalibrate the % measurements to a more accurate/objective set of measures (i.e. just active accounts) it might be that via those new (more accurate) measures the % of gamblers that are "problem gamblers" isn't a figure that the on-line bookmakers would like to see in the public domain. |
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No doubt some mugs will be along soon to point out that I am just anti-bookmaker and bitter, etc, etc.
The reality is, I am just pointing out what a difficult position the on-line bookmakers have put themselves into with their behaviour. They have put themselves into a really challenging position (imo) as every counter argument they could potentially put forward seems to have a pretty massive down-side (imo). |
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Stats are frequently and easily manipulated to suit.
I agree there is zero percentage the dormant accounts are problem gamblers given they are no longer active. As such should not be a factor or in the calculation. If so, without a shadow of doubt a few of these could be mine as I'd not bothered to deposit fund for reasons related to difficulty in withdrawal; difficulty in placing bets; poor customer service; etc; for at least 3/5 years. However, I'd like to know what percentage of fines (including mega ones) reported were detected/highlighted overall? What percentage of these amongst the problem gamblers/big losers and addicts? I do not believe the percentage quoted by bookies of the above is accurate or true. |