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sparrow
19 Jul 23 08:41
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Court case in Essex has gambling industry under scrutiny again as punter says: ‘It was only when I won that they did any checks’


Talking Horses: third-party betting case raises familiar questions
Court case in Essex has gambling industry under scrutiny again as punter says: ‘It was only when I won that they did any checks’

Greg Wood
Greg Wood
@Greg_Wood_
Wed 19 Jul 2023 08.00 BST
In the never-ending struggle between punters and bookmakers, no one can be in any doubt that the bookies will always have the upper hand and the growth of online gambling over the past 20 years has only exaggerated the imbalance of power.

Backers who turn a profit on their betting can expect to have their accounts closed or restricted to betting in pennies as a matter of routine. Even a few losing bets that beat the starting price can be enough to get an account flagged as potentially “unprofitable”.

And when all else fails, there may well be something in the extensive terms and conditions (T&Cs) that 99% of punters sign up to without reading that will come to the bookie’s aid.

The gambling business, in other words, generally holds all the aces, with another up their sleeve just in case, but until quite recently, the worst that a punter could expect for a breach of the T&Cs was account closure, with any balance (including their initial stake) retained by the bookmaker. That, however, may no longer be the case.

David (not his real name) is a former Bet365 customer and his breach of the T&Cs was “third-party betting”. He used the bank details of around a dozen friends, acquaintances and family members – with their knowledge – to sign up for accounts with Bet365 and take advantage of the bonuses and offers that all firms dangle – for new customers only – as carrots to keep their client lists growing.

Third-party betting is a breach of the T&Cs of all online gambling firms. It is also an extremely common practice, not least because shrewd punters, the actual or potential winners whose bets eat into the bookies’ profit margin, often cannot get a bet accepted any other way. Other punters simply look to bank the “free” bonus, or use free bets to lock in profits elsewhere via the practice known as “matched betting”.

David recently went on trial in Essex, charged with “fraud by false representation against an online betting company ‘bet365’ and thereafter laundering the proceeds of said fraud(s)”. After the judge in the case made it plain that he would face a two-year prison term if found guilty at the conclusion of a full trial, he changed his plea to guilty, receiving a sentence of 23 months in prison, suspended for two years, with 180 hours of unpaid work, and a confiscation order for nearly £270,000 – the total amount withdrawn from the 15 accounts which he operated. He also, of course, now has a criminal record.

Unlike the winning punters that firms such as Bet365 are so keen to avoid, however, David was, overall, a long-term loser with the firm. By his own admission, he was also in the grip of a gambling addiction when the accounts were in operation, and insists that the £270,000 withdrawn from Bet365 represents an overall loss of about £70,000 during his time betting with the firm.

“I’d always had gambling issues and it turned into an illness,” he says. “I was managing friends and family accounts, which goes on literally all over the place and I wasn’t as heavily into it as a lot of people. The total bonus value I took over six years was about £3,000, but I was also down £70,000 on sports betting and stuff. Every single account was down.

“Sometimes I was depositing 20 times a day, but there were never any checks [on whether he might have a gambling problem]. If what I did was a crime, I think that Bet365 was aiding and abetting me.”

David also believes that Bet365’s security systems could have used internet cookies and the IP address of his computer – a known practice employed by gambling firms – to link the 15 accounts to a single individual, but kept taking deposits while the accounts continued to lose.

Then, however, he hit a run of luck and the balance on one account rose to nearly £30,000.

“It was only when I won that they did any checks,” he says. “They let me keep depositing and losing with linked accounts until it wasn’t in their favour. They locked the account and I wasn’t letting it go and it all escalated from there.”

David took a decision that, in hindsight, he deeply regrets. “That was my biggest win in gambling and I knew that I was down so much over the years,” he says. “I couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t just pay and close the account and so I lodged a civil claim for the money in the county court.” The account was in the name of an acquaintance, and when they did not appear at the hearing, the case was thrown out, with an order of costs against the “claimant” of more than £100,000.

David is considering whether to take civil action against Bet365 for what he sees as its possible negligence in his case and could enlist the help of Andrew Montague, the solicitor who successfully helped the late Barney Curley to retrieve his winnings from a major coup a decade ago, in pursuing it. Montague also represented Megan McCann, a 20-year-old student claimed winnings of around £1m from Bet365 in 2016 in a case that was subsequently settled out of court.

Bet365 has been approached for comment.

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Replies: 106
By:
impossible123
When: 19 Jul 23 08:54
I hope the new White Paper on gambling addresses this sharp practice and bias of bookies. I firmly believe bookies should be penalised at least 10% of their turnover if found to be in breach of anti-money laundering or promotion of problem gambling or addiction. A 2nd offence must involve the suspension of their license to trade for a period of at least 6-months; any subsequent suspension automatically carries a double penalty period or more.

The bookies trade with fork-tongues and deaf-ears. Bookies only care about their profits - not people!
By:
onlooker
When: 19 Jul 23 08:54
' ...... the worst that a punter could expect for a breach of the T&Cs was account closure, with any balance (including their initial stake) retained by the bookmaker'.
----------------

Is that true? ..... 'account closure, with any balance (including their initial stake) retained by the bookmaker'.

- that must be illegal, surely.
By:
Ramruma
When: 19 Jul 23 09:15
It is a real issue.

But let's not pretend this is one-sided. It is an open secret that most pros have putters-on and accounts in other names whose bank details have been "borrowed". There is sharp practice on both sides. Heck, commission agents go back decades if not centuries.
By:
sparrow
When: 19 Jul 23 09:27
Ramruma, on my birth certificate it gives my Fathers occupation as a Commission Agents Clerk but I always remember him as an on course Bookmakers Clerk. What exactly would a Commission Agents Clerk be employed to do?
By:
impossible123
When: 19 Jul 23 09:37
I'd not trust any bookie, period. I'd treat them like I'd treat a dodgy trader or a passing neighbour with dubious activity and behaviour. Hence, I'll never leave more than £5 in my account overnight in case a whim gets the better of the bookie to act zealously and against the norm or possibly a phantom bet overseas during the night.

Prevention is better than cure.
By:
Brian
When: 19 Jul 23 12:23
Agree with impossible123. Wouldn't trust any off course bookmaker and I've not a bet with any of them for over 10 years and no intention of ever doing so again.
By:
second again
When: 19 Jul 23 12:29
Jockey's need putters on as the cannot back horses in their own name, I am sure they will keep doing what they have always doneLaugh
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 19 Jul 23 13:17
Footballers cannot bet on football, need somebody
to get their yellow card bets placed.

Surely anybody that is restricted has 3rd party
accounts.

Opening so many that it's bleeding obvious is plain daft
and a waste of a good few years resources.
By:
dambuster
When: 19 Jul 23 13:58
If bookmakers never took bets from 3rd party accounts, they'd lose at least 50% of there custom imho.
By:
slickster
When: 19 Jul 23 14:17
I want to know how Coates is on over 1 million a DAY. Its not from your average 5ers and 10ers and 50p Yankees. The shrewdies can't get a score on so where is all this money coming from?
By:
impossible123
When: 19 Jul 23 14:25
365 is online meaning less overheads and easier to manage. Also, founders and privately owned enterprises would know the business inside-out, and no shareholder to placate.

But for the nature of the business she deserves every penny. She's also civic and social minded locally.
By:
The Management
When: 19 Jul 23 14:31
slickster19 Jul 23 14:17Joined: 29 May 02 | Topic/replies: 5,757 | Blogger: slickster's blog
I want to know how Coates is on over 1 million a DAY.


Wheels & Reels - played 24/7, 365 days a year, anywhere and everywhere.
By:
onlooker
When: 19 Jul 23 14:49
slickster 19 Jul 23 14:17

I want to know how Coates is on over 1 million a DAY. Its not from your average 5ers and 10ers and 50p Yankees. The shrewdies can't get a score on so where is all this money coming from?
---------

FAR EAST All those mad Asian gamblers ... B et 365 even have Racecourses named after them in Australia - as do Ladblokes.

bet365 Echuca
bet365 Bairnsdale
bet365 Geelong
Ladbrokes Park Hillside = Sandown (in real money)

- and just how is the Gambling Commission going to check on those elusive Far East gamblers - cleaning up d... money
By:
Rico-Dangleflaps
When: 19 Jul 23 15:10
confiscation order for nearly £270,000 – the total amount withdrawn from the 15 accounts which he operated.

surely that cannot be from free offer bets?
By:
1st time poster
When: 19 Jul 23 15:44
£3.65 must be a money laundering operation,the amounts bet for them to make those profits,they must never have a lucky streak or they,d be wiped out in hrs/days
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 19 Jul 23 16:00
Must have huge turnover!




270k in bonuses, lol, sounds like a huge family
and friends or he's landed a few punts.
By:
dave1357
When: 19 Jul 23 16:48
impossible123 • July 19, 2023 8:54 AM BST
I hope the new White Paper on gambling addresses this sharp practice and bias of bookies


The white paper was published months ago and contains utterly nothing of use to punters.
By:
dave1357
When: 19 Jul 23 16:49
Seems like another very ignorant judge on the bench here.
By:
impossible123
When: 19 Jul 23 20:50
That escaped me. I hope the Gambling Commission will be given more power very soon (alluded to by government white paper) to deal with this regular repetition of t&c transgression by bookies.

I hope the Gambling Commission will suspend a bookie's license to trade for a period of time (not merely a fine) to show intent and gravitas of their flagrant and regular transgression. I'd also like the government to cull a few of the online bookies esp those not domiciled here.
By:
dustybin
When: 20 Jul 23 07:05
To call the OP evidence of laundering money is a total embarrassment.

Laundering refers to either the illegal activity to make money, the avoidance of relevant taxes or the funding of illicit activity.
The example is non of those. It’s not illegal to gamble, it’s not illegal to gift money (as long as it’s declared and subject to Inheritance Tax) and if there was evidence of financing drugs or terrorism then they would be the charges that trumped the rest of this circus.
By:
Gaze733
When: 20 Jul 23 09:18
95% of bookies are absolute scum, 365 is one of them. Guy wins 270k and loses 340k, they want the 270k back. The judge should just chuckle at their greed and throw out the case.
By:
longbridge
When: 20 Jul 23 09:33
dusty - who called the OP evidence of money laundering?

None of things you list are illegal - but fraud by false representation is, and that was what he was convicted of.
By:
dave1357
When: 20 Jul 23 09:57
@ longbridge

from OP “fraud by false representation against an online betting company ‘bet365’ and thereafter laundering the proceeds of said fraud(s)”.

@ dusty

Years ago the crime of money laundering was expanded from being about just hiding the source of criminal funds and legitimising them, to include doing virtually anything with criminal funds. So anyone charged with fraud will quite often get money laundering added on.
By:
longbridge
When: 20 Jul 23 10:25
Thanks dave, somehow my eye skipped over that.

And yes, that's money laundering - the apparent payment from Bet365 was to Joe Bloggs but the money was diverted to "David".  And the conviction for fraud means those moneys are the proceeds of crime, so this is money laundering as always understood - taking the proceeds of crime and attempting to disguise their final destination.
By:
howard
When: 20 Jul 23 10:42
"David also believes that Bet365’s security systems could have used internet cookies and the IP address of his computer – a known practice employed by gambling firms – to link the 15 accounts to a single individual, but kept taking deposits while the accounts continued to lose".


Not the brightest in not using a VPN ?
By:
longbridge
When: 20 Jul 23 10:45
If he was bright he wouldn't have tried to sue them in someone else's name and brought this all down on his head.
By:
dustybin
When: 20 Jul 23 10:54
I hear that Dave, but how can 365 determine fraud when money can be given to whoever, and as frequently as one chooses?
By:
longbridge
When: 20 Jul 23 11:02
If "David" had genuinely given Joe Bloggs a hundred pounds to go betting with, and Joe had in a fit of gratitude given his winnings back to "David" then just maybe he could claim dusty's scenario. It would be an interesting line to have tried in court.

But he didn't.  It was David's computer, David's IP address, David placing the bets.  He was pretending to be Joe to get new customer benefits, and that's fraud.  And 365 did not determine it was fraud - the Court did.
By:
dave1357
When: 20 Jul 23 11:16
howard • July 20, 2023 10:42 AM BST
"David also believes that Bet365’s security systems could have used internet cookies and the IP address of his computer – a known practice employed by gambling firms – to link the 15 accounts to a single individual, but kept taking deposits while the accounts continued to lose".


Not the brightest in not using a VPN ?


Think you are missing the point and 365 block many vpns

btw I think that it's a disgrace that criminal courts are getting involved in this. It is clearly a civil matter.
By:
dave1357
When: 20 Jul 23 11:21
longbridge, I think this is a different case to the small claims guy, who pled not guilty.

I really think that 365 have pulled some political strings and plod are prosecuting these cases when they would have had nothing to do with them in the past.
By:
longbridge
When: 20 Jul 23 12:07
dave - I thought the article suggested...

"David took a decision that, in hindsight, he deeply regrets. “That was my biggest win in gambling and I knew that I was down so much over the years,” he says. “I couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t just pay and close the account and so I lodged a civil claim for the money in the county court.” The account was in the name of an acquaintance, and when they did not appear at the hearing, the case was thrown out, with an order of costs against the “claimant” of more than £100,000."

... that the civil case against 365 was what woke them up to what was going on and initiated the chain of events which led to prosecution?

"I really think that 365 have pulled some political strings and plod are prosecuting these cases when they would have had nothing to do with them in the past."

Maybe - but B365 have now established the legal precedent that operating betting accounts in someone else's name to get around restrictions / gain extra bonuses can be prosecuted in th criminal courts as fraud and/or money laundering, which gives bookies generally a big club to wave - if you operate such an account, and they catch on and freeze your money, any attempt to get your money back can be countered by a threadt to take you to criminal court if you persist.  A few of those in the papers and people will start to think twice.
By:
The Management
When: 20 Jul 23 12:32
He has basically been done for winning - if he had just carried on losing, like he was supposed to, he would have been ok!

They didn't give a t0ss what name(s) or how many names he was using, just so long as he kept losing.
By:
dave1357
When: 20 Jul 23 12:32
my bad - so that is two people who did that.

The other case involved a lengthy police investigation and presumably this one did as well. Given stretched police resources, I can't see that being green lighted unless someone has decided that Denise's taxes are important.
By:
howard
When: 20 Jul 23 12:44
" 365 block many vpns"    How do they do that ?
By:
parispike
When: 20 Jul 23 12:50
I don't know how VPNs are identified/blocked but they definitely are by some!
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 20 Jul 23 12:53
"btw I think that it's a disgrace that criminal courts are getting involved in this. It is clearly a civil matter."

Why would it be a civil matter?  B365 haven't lost any money.  No one else has either.  In fact B365 won £70k.

The civil case would reverse the roles of plaintiff and defendant.

Kind of ironic
By:
CLYDEBANK29
When: 20 Jul 23 12:58
which is ofc where it all started and where it might end!
By:
dave1357
When: 20 Jul 23 13:42
howard • July 20, 2023 12:44 PM BST
" 365 block many vpns"    How do they do that ?


They have a list of the IP addresses used by vpn providers. Iplayer has this as well.
By:
dave1357
When: 20 Jul 23 13:45
CLYDEBANK29 • July 20, 2023 12:53 PM BST

Why would it be a civil matter?


If 365 feel they have lost money, they should go to civil court and get judgement. Instead they whined to the police that they had defrauded.
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