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Gosden and Dettori
Gosden and Dettori
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Dettori has become a part time jockey, semi retirement.
Italy one week, riding at Ascot and then back to Italy |
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judging by the number of posts,i must be the only one who likes gosden snr. i like his interviews.i find him relatively truthful and usually possesses a degree of common sense. as in hell posted fd has become a part timer. thats fine if your riding out of your skin , but he has been very poor on a number of occasions esp the oaks where he got beat on the best horse. f.cking off on your holidays immediaely after ascot having been away for the week before leves you less sharp than he should be.im not surprised jg didnt answer the phone.
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dettori has sack gosden lol
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It's abundantly clear the present Stradivarius is not the same horse that beat Vazirabad or Torcedor - he only just managed (on his favoured ground) to beat Spanish Mission (not won since). When Stradivarius was good he even beat Nayef Road on heavy ground - ground he disliked and Gosden withdrew him once in a big race on race day.
Dettori did not have a good Ascot, but I'll still back him before any other jockey on a deserved hotpot. To me he's still the best jockey at Ascot. I do not think he'd be blamed for the defeat of Emily Upjohn at Epsom either - the horse has a misfortune just after the stall opened. I firmly believe a quiet word (in private) between these two behemoth of the sport was all that would be required post Ascot. Post this the decision whether they remain as a unit or go their separate way is theirs to make. Where's AOB? |
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after a few years of seeing dettori clowning about non stop and kissing everyone he could i knew it was all a false front .
there is just no way that he is like that in real life . i bet hes the absolute opposite . |
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Was at Haydock several years midweek ago when after the 5th race Frankie and W Buick had finished riding and were have a seafood platter in the downstairs premier stand,most people were just letting them get on with it except for a couple of people who wanted their photos take with Frankie who happily obliged and was quite friendly with them, one person even asked W Buick to take the photo which he did.
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I have seen people ask Dettori for a selfie as he returns to the weigh room, he says, let me weigh in and I will come out again.
The surprising thing is that he does come out again for the photo |
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Gosden never has had, nor ever will have any class. A very over rated trainer propped up over the years by very good owners. Not fit to lace the great Sir Henry's laces...
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Can't disagree there.
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No trainer can be any good without owners giving them good horses
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And Henry had lots of class but look what happened for several years when the good horses stopped coming his way
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Gosden is a bad loser,no doubt about it.
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Only a blind man can think Dettori is still a top class jockey. Gosden getting rid of him has been overdue for a considerable time. 3 years in a row he's jocked younger and better jockeys off in the Derby and each time he's ridden shockers. Add in Stradivarius in last years Gold Cup, Palace Pier in the QE11 and a number of others last year it's a surprise Gosden still stuck with him going into this season. Emily Upjohn was a joke of a ride regardless of the slip at the start. Without the showboating whilst Moore was galvanising Tuesday and getting first run Emily wins easily. Royal Ascot was then nothing short of a disaster. Hopefully the 'sabbatical' is a long term situation and we see the end of the only jockey out there who thinks he is more important than the horse he is riding.
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Also with Thady joining the training ranks and presumably getting more responsibilities, perhaps Johnny G wanted to sort this out once and for all, without Thady having to deal with it at the beginning of his career.
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Mr Gosden is a good trainer. However, he was put in his place by the likes of Sir Cecil, Sir Stoute and Mr Cumani neither were influenced by the wish of the owner; Mr Gosden ran horses in The Derby and Oaks when he should not eg Roaring lion and Nahwa respectively, but denied Jack Hobbs and Cracksman a crack in the The Arc despite ideal ground because of Golden Horn and Enable respectively.
Sir Cecil never even contemplated running Frankel in The Derby or over 12f despite the machine annihilating his rivals in every race bar one from 8/10f. Similarly, Mr Cumani with Postponed; he refused to run Postponed at Meydan, with solely Epsom and York as prep races for The Arc (main objective). Mr Harwood - another great trainer - also stuck with his jockey. Mr Gosden is no doubt a very intelligent individual. He's articulate and speaks well too. He's also condescending, and a Mr Knows-it-all. He likes to smirk too! |
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Well…I laughed when Gosden said they had a face to face meeting.
I know :o |
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i uspect, with zero actual knowledge, it was Frankie who was so disappointed in the comments Gosden made.
Frankie has been a one man PR machine for racing. he has credit in the bank and deserves better. i guess racing is a "what have you done for me lately" industry but occasionally somone is above that, Lanfranco is. |
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Good post that northanlite.
Just tested the wife out by asking her to name a jockey , she named Dettori & Piggott even though i only asked for one name. Asked her who John Gosden was , she went quiet than guessed he was a motor racing driver. Mind you she did think Sir Henry was a snooker player. Hard to evaluate what Dettori has done for racing in all honesty , suspect it's a hell of a lot though. |
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A couple of jumped up millionaires having a tiff pmsl.............
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Hayden , do you and your wife live in the same house?
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Whatever the issue -public behaviour requires a certain discipline and decorum. One can disagree with or criticise someone without belittling them.
Knowing him only from the TV screen -I was surprised that Gosden fell short of expectations. |
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Well maybe he has had a few words behind closed doors and it had no effect.
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Yes Swifty she does
 She feels herself lucky she's never really exposed to TV sport , my viewing is mostly online. She's also eternally thankful i dislike soccer so never has to watch or hear about that. MY main sport is Ice Hockey & all the other American stuff so yet again she's thankful it all starts from midnight. All makes for a happy household |
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sounds like a perfect set up!
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Tbf to Gosden, he rightly called out a few shockingly poor rides from Frankie - something which stunned the fawning presenters as something they'd never do themselves in a million years.
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I could swear, I saw Frankie's left knee give way when he jumped off the horse. It will do, one day, and I think it was today.
Cutter the cut is never wrong, and he can smell the buzz of headlines. |
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young mr gosden has his own plans and ideas and they don't contain frankie I suspect when it comes down to it
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Down to what: it?
I think Betfair needs to vet some of these foreigners, as they may wish to post, but their language is like a baby blabbering. |
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A sabbatical? What a pompous and disingenuous description of events? It's like saying to a loyal servant your service is no longer needed, and you'd been let go; only the Gosdens just did not have the decency or courage to say that to the people's jockey.
A reconciliation? More chance of finding Elvis alive than Dettori being 1st jockey again at Clarehaven. Has Gosden jr ever done a stint with a seasoned trainer eg Haggas or Sir Stoute? |
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Jibberish, Sir. Jibberish. Make yourself plain and English. We know you are foreign and struggle with simple contractions and expansions of English grammar but do have a go. You never know we may be able to understand the rat hole you are grunting from.
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Handled poorly by Gosden - ignoring attempts to make contact yet stating that truths need told to people as it's only right and fair........yet Dettori had made too many high profile ba11s ups - far too many and need to be let go. Maybe this will focus the jockey better so to not believe his own hype. Best for both parties.
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I think this unfortunate saga will be productive for both parties going forward (separately). No (business) partnership is inseparable given time. Onwards and upwards, I say,...for horseracing.
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I say: what a Victorian expression, Sir.
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"Mr Gosden is a good trainer. However, he was put in his place by the likes of Sir Cecil, Sir Stoute and Mr Cumani neither were influenced by the wish of the owner"
Stoute ran Sheikh Mohammed's Ajdal in Derby, later that nag was champion sprinter. Cumani ran Sheikh Mohammed's Barathea in the Derby |
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The best parent of UAE was flexing his financial muscle then, but Sir Cecil was not for turning with his charges. Later Cumani did stand his ground about Postponed (the best horse in "that" Arc) who ran his races prior eg Meydan, courtesy of his owner.
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Cardinal Scott 26 Jun 22 14:24
"Mr Gosden is a good trainer. However, he was put in his place by the likes of Sir Cecil, Sir Stoute and Mr Cumani neither were influenced by the wish of the owner" Stoute ran Sheikh Mohammed's Ajdal in Derby, later that nag was champion sprinter. Cumani ran Sheikh Mohammed's Barathea in the Derby Lets not bring facts into this please |
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Both horses shared the same owner. Sir Cecil did not; Mr Cumani stood his ground, and vindicated when Postponed was beaten by the 1st and 2nd in The Atrc - the same 2 horses Postponed had beaten easily prior.
Mr Gosden is a good trainer. He also talks a good talk. But, running Roaring Lion (2018) and then Nashwa (2022) at Epsom is not the judgement of a very good trainer; Stradivarius (2020 Arc) on heavy ground (the same ground he pulled the horse out in a big stayer's race on the day) was another apocalyptic horseracing decision on his part. Dettori made a few rare mistakes at Ascot this year; Mr Gosden made a few too in big races mentioned above. Mr Gosden also bitched about Dettori in public! Be professional esp one is in a high profile position and public sport. |
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I was under the impression it was the owner of Stradivarius (Nielson) who decided to target
The Arc though I'm not certain of that. And in doing so, I would've assumed softer ground was preferable to sap the stamina from some of the classier types who may come up short. He did win one of his Gold Cups on very soft ground...arguably his most impressive win there. For an Arc it was a very winnable opportunity and in reality there looked to be only Enable to be that concerned about - the eventual winner Sottsass will go down as a way below average winner. The strong staying Marienbard won it and the great Ardross had it won in another couple of strides. Order Of St George ran superb races to be placed twice so I don't think it's such a ridiculous route to go as a stayer can appreciate the high-tempo pace. |
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As for Stoute with Ajdal...I always figured he was an 8/10f horse (though he never ran at 10f and
maybe he wasn't 100% early in the season against Don't Forget Me over a mile) but that generation of sprinters was as bad as I can remember, so was that a case of Stoute carving out a winnable opportunity at the highest level in channelling a stayer's speed (against weak opposition) or was the new strategy an admission he previously got it wrong? Maybe a bit of both but I'd go with the former and also arguably that he 'came right' after the Derby. I do recall Stoute admitting he'd taken an age to find Ajdal's best trip but I always reckoned there was a lot more to what we'd been told as I find it extremely difficult to believe that one of the greatest trainers EVER mistook a champion sprinter for a Derby winner, without having his arm up his back...and the clue may be in the paragraph below: In Hell - with both those examples (Ajdal & Barathea) being the Sheikh's, do you think he might've been desperate to get himself a Derby winner and used his influence? I remember constantly hearing how The Derby meant the pinnacle of the sport for the Ayrabs. I always recall Jeremy Tree rating Known Fact, the Guineas winner (and slayer of the great Kris) a better sprinter at home than the superb Sharpo which astonished me. It sounds so obvious but I learned throughout the 80s to have confidence in my own views, that racehorses can't talk and nothing is straightforward and set in stone. Things bothered me that everyone just believed cos they were 'official' opinions and always spouted in the media such as Sea Pigeon supposedly not having the requisite stamina (over a slightly longer trip at the time) for the Champion Hurdles he was beaten in (before winning twice over shorter) yet he could win two Chester Cups on the flat with a much faster pace over 2f more? Utter shíte which is about as inane & retarded as I've ever heard in the sport  I'm sure someone can confirm that it was the prescribed view of the time and I'm not dreaming it up. |
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There looks to be a relatively straightforward answer to that Sea Pigeon quandary...maybe he
was beaten in the best Champion Hurdles EVER by stronger stayers and arguably better hurdlers. No shame at all up against Nighty Nurse & Monksfield. I was a raw novice at the time and Sea Pigeon was one of the reasons why the game grabbed me by the throat - others on here will no doubt be better qualified to give their opinions and despite my Sea Pigeon bias, I think it makes sense, though I'm happy to be put straight as I was just a naive schoolkid with huge enthusiasm but little experience  |