New RTV low latency stream (take 2)

Ultra-low latency can't be achieved over satellite because the feed has a round-trip-return-time (of the order of 200-300ms) and this doesn't include the encode delay. Indeed, the difference between BLV and RTV over the bird is accounted for by adding on the journey through the ether

Sending the feed on a 20,000 mile round-trip doesn't help much

i never mentioned anything about satellite, but if i facetimed the raw feed to someone do you agree the delay (to them) would be c0.5s behind live??

Bigcat, we have all seen a raw rtv lv to near 1 sec ahead of sky tv. Which would be under .5 behind live
Why can something that has been done umpteen times not be repeated?

Andy, it is called deflection

There will soon be a strange dynamic where half the drone players who were happy to use drones during lockdown will start cursing them when at the track.

andy..the drone is barely ahead of rtv..

iyo is the drone 1 sec behind live?

Someone is at the front end and making money and it won't change anytime soon....

greenteeth, how would i know i have never ever played a drone feed so it would be impossible to comment.

andyl 18 Mar 21 14:50 
i never mentioned anything about satellite, but if i facetimed the raw feed to someone do you agree the delay (to them) would be c0.5s behind live??


ffs..the latency through good internet is barely 0.1

this is not an issue about drones, it's about why the rtv trial speed promised ie 0.6s behid live has not been implemented successfully

more clowns in here (most potless or struggling) than a billy smart convention.

again i ask the ? to BigCat....why do you think this is?? Is it a politics, money, tv rights or technical issue causing or should i suggest preventing this from happening.

James, as I've said before, I don't have all the answers. I don't know why we get glimpses of slightly less delay (after some races), but there are many factors in play when delivering a service to a wide audience and I don't believe they are 'holding anything back' from us, as such. I just know that they'll have many operational considerations

itsmeswaddle, see if pigeonhole posts a video of that race hexam, was even worse that the one you posted earlier!
Post it on here if he does please

greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy • March 18, 2021 1:53 PM GMT
andyl 18 Mar 21 14:50 
i never mentioned anything about satellite, but if i facetimed the raw feed to someone do you agree the delay (to them) would be c0.5s behind live??


ffs..the latency through good internet is barely 0.1

yes i know its a click of fingers, so why is this being made a huge technical issue...if you facetimed the raw feeds from the track would we not have near live pics

another loss for the hull drone crew..

andl, facetime uses technology which will adapt differently to every single conferencing session, based upon the available bandwidth, Round-trip-time and packet loss. So no two sessions will be the same. Depends on the internet at source, destination and path over the net

ffs..the latency through good internet is barely 0.1

yes i know its a click of fingers, so why is this being made a huge technical issue...if you facetimed the raw feeds from the track would we not have near live pics

i mean the drone from a--b etc.

greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy
greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy18 Mar 21 14:43Joined: 04 Jun 09 | Topic/replies: 3,964 | Blogger: greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy's blog
stayinin 18 Mar 21 14:12
jamesdean18 Mar 21 13:55Joined: 15 Sep 05 | Topic/replies: 19,534 | Blogger: jamesdean's blog
how far ahead are the drone pics today at hexam greenie/stayinin?

no drone feed track caller there, Betfair live around just over 2 seconds behind give or take don't waste your money playing from live in the last 3 furlongs

stayinin 18 Mar 21 14:41
dog walkers copped the lot at Donny, drone boys at Hexham are the hull crew

mrs dobson told me they turned up after the second race jog on you muppet............



fckin comedy gold from the forum clown

yes i believe you but would it not allow faster pics for all than we currently have

Anyway, need to get my head down now... losing

how many are winning consistently? imo not many

how many are still trying?  all.

stayinin 18 Mar 21 14:41
dog walkers copped the lot at Donny, drone boys at Hexham are the hull crew

mrs dobson told me they turned up after the second race jog on you muppet............

the drone was there for the 1st race..tell mrs dobson to wake up.

Mar 18, 2021 -- 2:54PM, Big Cat wrote:

James, as I've said before, I don't have all the answers. I don't know why we get glimpses of slightly less delay (after some races), but there are many factors in play when delivering a service to a wide audience and I don't believe they are 'holding anything back' from us, as such. I just know that they'll have many operational considerations

the faster raw lv we've seen hasnt always been after a race, theres been plenty fast raw rtv lv pics during the race as well.
That was another naughty attempt at deflection but i'm on to you!

jd..iyo..where do you think this 'raw rtv' is being sent from?

Mar 18, 2021 -- 2:54PM, greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy wrote:

more clowns in here (most potless or struggling) than a billy smart convention.

Are you ever wrong?

True delay point-to-point, say through the internet, is really low. It may be quite a few hundred ms for cellular stuff but generally it accounts for only a fraction of the delay we experience. If you transfer a large file over a really high bandwidth internet connection, it doesn't transfer instantaneously. There is a lot of 'other stuff' going on to make the transfer work. Same with Video. Packets arrive, must be buffered, must be put back in their original order, video and voice resynched, before being presented to the application. Even then, the app will only play out the service according to a clock which is enforced by the encoding side (not the decoding app). It's complicated stuff

Hull crew got lost on route

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX0aOgfyEco

greenie use your head, there's only so much one can say on a public forum, you know this, are you trying to get me done

Big Cat • March 18, 2021 1:54 PM GMT
James, as I've said before, I don't have all the answers. I don't know why we get glimpses of slightly less delay (after some races), but there are many factors in play when delivering a service to a wide audience and I don't believe they are 'holding anything back' from us, as such. I just know that they'll have many operational considerations

You do know they have already admitted they are holding back the faster live video but declined to answer why, dont you?

Over the past 6 years, latterly with the
@HbfBritain
  I've lobbied the industry to provide a low latency stream, to create a level playing field for in running betting. They have failed to do so. Having had access to a drone for a few meetings over the past few weeks, I realise ½

it is now pointless waiting for the day for
@RacingTV
and
@AtTheRaces
to provide us with this option. I can now only recommend paying a guy to fly a drone, which will enable us to provide more liquidity into the markets. I would rather pay racing, sadly they don't seem interested

this was a statement on twitter from thebootman earlier today who is the originator of this thread. He has basically admitted he has given up

The trial app took place a year ago, we were promised faster pics (to c0.6s) yet we are still debating why etc.

There has been no formal statement on this subject (apart from wishy washy ones) from Betfair/RUK.

So, to reiterate.....why not?

rarely swad..rarely

unless you can show me otherwise.

James, as I've said before, I don't have all the answers. I don't know why you get glimpses of slightly less delay (after some races), but there are many factors in play when delivering a service to a wide audience and I don't believe we are 'holding anything back' from you, as such. I just know that we have many operational considerations


the unedited version for JD

jamesdean 18 Mar 21 15:08 
greenie use your head, there's only so much one can say on a public forum, you know this, are you trying to get me done

is it mi5 stuff?

dont be silly pablo, you never seen a faster raw lv from rtv tracks ok, it doesnt exist....now look into my eyes and repeat...it doesnt exist

Big Cat • March 18, 2021 1:54 PM GMT
James, as I've said before, I don't have all the answers. I don't know why we get glimpses of slightly less delay (after some races), but there are many factors in play when delivering a service to a wide audience and I don't believe they are 'holding anything back' from us, as such. I just know that they'll have many operational considerations

You do know they have already admitted they are holding back the faster live video but declined to answer why, dont you?

If your getting the pics before their sent are you getting a raw feed..

The lads at Brookmans Park are cleaning up !

I am not sure how many agree with me but don't you think BetFAIR/RUK should provide us (it's IR customers) with a formal statement clarifying what they have been trying to do to speed their LV pics up, what specific issues they have encountered or are facing, a revised progess timeline etc etc instead of simply doing nowt.

remember bigcat is the same man that said when we got those fast raw rtv lv pics that is was probably sky tv pics that had slowed down
and not lv sped up!

Haha Pablo, very good
Lime I say JD, must be operational difficulties. Can't say more than that cos I don't know. I'm not suspicious of RTV however

Mar 18, 2021 -- 3:15PM, jamesdean wrote:

remember bigcat is the same man that said when we got those fast raw rtv lv pics that is was probably sky tv pics that had slowed down and not lv sped up!

Yeh, I reckon I got that wrong

Big cat , how comes for someone very knowledgesable in streaming protocols etc, when we have/had issues with ATR on betfair live video for about 6-8 months, you never once posted on that thread with suggestions/advice or anything else as to what it may be causing the problem , even though it has more than double the pages of this thread

Thats easy, because someone has a fast feed.

They wont be paying 5k for it, why would they.

But we have seen its out there.

IMAS - It would be so easy to prove or disprove....just investigate RTV and Rarcetech.

Racetech

Dunno really, Both threads overlap a lot. I read them both from time to time, just post on this one out of habit

Which is what the GC imo should be doing or should have done on a regular basis to ensure there is no corruption taking place concerning the streaming of faster pictures.

Mar 18, 2021 -- 3:22PM, Big Cat wrote:

Dunno really, Both threads overlap a lot. I read them both from time to time, just post on this one out of habit

well there ya go pabs, hope thats cleared it up for you

Says it all imo

There's quite a bit of comedy value on this thread

How come we are ridiculing suggestions?

When RTV have basically said yeah there is a fast feed, yet no reason it cant be used by the public?

THEY can do WHATEVER THEY WANT imo

hexham -3.7 donc 4.2 chelt 0.7

Is that really the delays they want?

Do they just want to play amongst themsevles?

Dunno really, Both threads overlap a lot. I read them both from time to time, just post on this one out of habit

makes no sense big cat

90% or more of your replies are on this thread , yet the forum was screaming out for months about ATR on live video problems and your expertise would have been more than welcomed , yet from what i remember you didn't even make a suggestion as to what it might be, what we could try to fix it etc

or did you

hello is that rtv?

Bootman put up a good fight.

More bollocks from Big Cat

That 3.30 hexam race is worst race ever seen for how short winner was about 2 lengths down

was actually 1.2 5 lengths down in 2nd, games over for atr tracks, no more

yes we all know...

people will still play though.

As well as Kempton Chelmsford Newmarket Pontefract Catterick Jamesdean

Martin Hughes
@boots111
Over the past 6 years, latterly with the
@HbfBritain
  I've lobbied the industry to provide a low latency stream, to create a level playing field for in running betting. They have failed to do so. Having had access to a drone for a few meetings over the past few weeks, I realise ½
10:32 AM · Mar 18, 2021·Twitter Web App
3
Retweets
10
Likes
Martin Hughes
@boots111
·
9h
Replying to
@boots111
it is now pointless waiting for the day for
@RacingTV
and
@AtTheRaces
to provide us with this option. I can now only recommend paying a guy to fly a drone, which will enable us to provide more liquidity into the markets. I would rather pay racing, sadly they don't seem interested

even the bootman has given up on rtv

head in hands man.....

you be on greenys clown list stayinin....

stayinin 18 Mar 21 14:12
jamesdean18 Mar 21 13:55Joined: 15 Sep 05 | Topic/replies: 19,534 | Blogger: jamesdean's blog
how far ahead are the drone pics today at hexam greenie/stayinin?

no drone feed track caller there, Betfair live around just over 2 seconds behind give or take don't waste your money playing from live in the last 3 furlongs

stayinin 18 Mar 21 14:41
dog walkers copped the lot at Donny, drone boys at Hexham are the hull crew

mrs dobson told me they turned up after the second race jog on you muppet............



fckin comedy gold from the forum clown

Mrs dobson told me they turned up after the second race jog on you muppet............

no drones for the first race 100% I was button pushing for someone copped the lot the first race

andyl am playing at Clapton circus do you want a V.I.P ticket? let me know

mrs dobson wears bi-focals.

Mar 18, 2021 -- 5:41PM, Writz wrote:

As well as Kempton Chelmsford Newmarket Pontefract Catterick Jamesdean

Soon caves in if less than half of the overall courses become playable, we are heading that way.

Racing TV
@RacingTV
£101 was matched on Mount Ida at 999/1 in-running

rtv happy to take this publicity, but dont tell us about the thieves who no doubt laid Envoi Allen as he fell, maybe if their pictures had been less delayed some of those victims might have managed to cancel their bets in time

Only thing rtv in runners are canceling just now is their rtv subscriptions. Refusing to give them another penny until
they get their pictures up to speed we were promised over a year ago now

show me 1 person thats stopped playing

my pics wont load until half way through the races
anyone else?

JCM, mine ok.

Use the betfair video by typing that into google?

Rather than acessing through the indivdual race live streams?

okay cheers IMS

Nice drone pics at Cheltenham on the replays on rtv, nice of them to show us them after the race.

drones arny fraction ahead..just angle diff gravy.

you finding them a good advantage at cheltenham?

I engage in quite a few forums on a daily basis. This one least frequently. The Moderation on here is non-existent. It's comical the way everyone slaughters each other. And the level of moaning is off the scale!

im winning 4k at chelt playing hard from 2 out..2-300's..bout only time theres any value betting...on blv imposs..struggling to ponce a tenner.

Back (Bet For)
Odds
Stake
Profit
Porlock Bay
1.08
£8,050.00
£627.41
Total stake:
£8,050.00

fair value in foto james 1.1 and deffo no inq.

was a strange price given the distance, they mustve tht they saw something

yes.

Is anyone else using gruss and accessing video through them?

I keep having to close the video a couple of times because it's tiny and on the 3rd go it opens proper size?

Has happened on sky pics too but ok there so far today

you need a diff laptop and use betfair.video full screen..hardly rocket science stuff.

I prefer to look at the betting and video on same screen.

drag video to a corner

I know how to set up the betfair video etc, was just wondering if anyone was having issues on video via gruss
Seems to be working better now.
Ta

Every day my RUK pics are ok, obvious delay but ok, today very blurry, anyone else?

Just arr lass streaming Married at First Sight my bad.

Just the 1 drone up at Weth

Maybe going skinto

Dreadful pictures RTV can we see more than just the winner on the run in please

Wonder if it'll be 0.9 secs @ kempton or chelmsford?

pausing in ireland and musselburgh at business end early races

stuttering, pausing at all RTV tracks for me today. Clearly the contagion has hit RTV too.

It’s been nothing short of scandalous today and on that last race we even had a rewind on the faller clearly the cheating brigade have worked out how to disrupt the RTV racing as well so from a little hope we now have no hope it has got to have been the worst live feed I’ve ever seen with pauses at every major issue in the racing a complete and utter disgrace sort this fkn joke out Betfair as your killing the IR market allowing this to happen the least we deserve is PC to be scrapped and you to have some respect to your customers and do the honourable thing and sort this shambles out now

fine until just over the last, incredible coincidence and absolutely incredible bad luck for live video players.

i'd say this was one of my all-time favourite threads on here tbh.