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Your are right the pies
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Correct The Pies.
I found the place pretty soulless even in those days. |
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The only thing that I remember about jump racing at Windsor is that it was there that the Duke Of Devonshire`s brilliant hurdler Gay George was tragically killed. Loved fast ground and the quickest over a hurdle that I ever seen. Sad day it was.
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My first visit to a racecourse was when my mother and I took the 441 bus to Windsor for the New Year's Day Hurdle in 1976. We both fell in love with the magnificent Sea Pigeon in the paddock, and that was our bet of the day.
Jonjo was riding Sea Pigeon for GW Richards, and was tracking Fulke Walwyn's Dramatist when the latter fell in front of him. Comedy Of Errors went clear, but Jonjo drove Sea Pigeon up to take the lead as they passed us in the stands. Inevitably Sea Pigeon then threw it away just before the line, but I didn't realize in those days that you're supposed to avoid ungenuine creatures like that, and Sea Pigeon was the one I followed for the rest of his career. Luckily the horse moved on the MH Easterby, or the next few years might not have turned out half as thrilling. |
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not sure which I'm more surprised at - buses running on New Years Day (nada here in Edinburgh yet there are 5000+ at Musselburgh that day) or Sea Pigeon (all the way from Cumbria) running at Windsor!! I saw your post on another thread and your pre A Maguire comment, well Francome gave sea pigeon the sort of ride that Maguire could only dream about!!
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Trains and buses use to run on Boxing day as well, i remember going Kempton when Silver Buck beat Jack of Trumps on B day,
nowadays the lazy bar steward train drivers won't work, not that they do much anyway |
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Good point. I backed Sea Pigeon in that 1981 Champion Hurdle with total confidence, and Francome's presence in the saddle played a big part in it. But Francome never had to ride against jockeys of the quality that emerged from the 1990s onwards. When I look at videos now from before that period, just about every jockey bar Francome looks like a modern point-to-point rider.
New Year's Day was simply not a cause for public celebration down here back then. It had become a Bank Holiday in 1974, which was nice, but nobody really understood why. |
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sure francome stood out cause the rest around that time weren't very good, some will say bradley or scu or jonjo but no doubt the bar was raised in the 90s..up here we need an extra day holiday!! even as a kid, hogmanay was a much bigger thing for me than Christmas - loved all the first footing, staggering around invariably icy/snowy back roads terrified of falling and breaking the bottles in the co-op plastic bag, but knowing you'd get a warm welcome (even though well under age) a choice of broth, stovies or dumpling, and a wee dram or twa - happy days!! unfortunately in course of less than 2 generations those traditions have disappeared - such is change
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I couldn`t remember that GWR trained Sea Pigeon, you learn something every day. Jeremy Tree trained him on the Flat and he carried Jock Whitney`s famous colours in the Derby. Think Sea Pigeon finished 7th behind Morston.
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I was talking about the colours on here the other day Mac ,1982 peacetime also trained by Jeremy tree also ran in the derby but obviously didn’t go on to be the great hurdler sea pigeon become.
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Talking of Sea Pigeon's 1981 success I was living in Hong Kong at the time and think we were 7/8 hours ahead. Rang Playboy Bookmakers and stuck on £50 and they plugged me into the live commentary. There were 6 of us trying to listen in ;very exciting race.
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It should be remembered that Sea Pigeon had astonking record in the race being runner up as an 8yo and 9yo then winning as a 10yo and 11yo.
I certainly can't remember another 10yo winning the race. |
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The falling out between Pat Muldoon and Gordon Richards was a long-time brewing. It seems that Richards regularly used to tell Muldoon that one of his horses was a good thing, then on the day would run another one against it with the inevitable outcome. In the end he tried it once too often, and the horses were moved to Peter Easterby, including Sea Pigeon.
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Hattons Grace won at 10 and 11 posy but the Pigeon was a different animal,hard to decide between him and Night Nurse as to my fav of all time in the CH.
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Posy Hatton grace was 11 but like me you will be much to young to remember him,you will know the race ran in his name at fairyhouse.
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Beat me to it glentoby.
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Foxy, they were very prominent colours but seem to have disappeared. Easter Hero carried them to win successive Gold Cups in 1929 and 1930 and when finishing 2nd under a big weight of 12st 7lbs in the 1929 National behind Gregalach to whom he was conceding 17lbs. Here is the race https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdSHR_rmyu4 and although in B & W the Whitney silks still remain easy to pick out. And the course was a phenomenal test of jumping and courage. Quite amazing filming given the period.
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Sorry foxy,the CH is one of the few races I really know any history about and the Pigeon/Hattons achievements were so unique it sticks in the memory.
When Night Nurse won in 77 it was my first bet in the race,I had £1 ew at sp whilst my mate had £500 (Our leave clerk whos dad was a bookie).We were on about £14 a week as soldiers.He was nearly crying as heavy as the rain that fell and resigned to NN losing,the 15/2 was manna from heaven and tha real catalyst for me getting into racing and punting.He had more on Sea Pigeon both times and my own bet had been upped to a score both times. Happy days!!! |
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Windsor New Year's Day Hurdle
1991 Aldino 7-11-7 J Osborne 3-1 Beldale Star 7-11-4 5-2 Ryde Again 7-11-4 9-4 F 1992 Royal Derbi 6-11-7 D Murphy 9-2 Aldino 8-11-10 16-1 Floyd 11-11-10 10-1 1972-73 multiple winners in the 4 preceding years. Nottingham Dondieu Proud Percy Wolverhampton Bighorn Windsor Inch Arran Potentate |
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I was at Cheltenham the day Sea Pigeon won the Champion Hurdle under Francome, i was only and had just started managing one of Joes shops. 3 customers had said they were going so i asked if i could go with them to make up 4. They said no problem.
They were what you would call dodgy and picked me up at 8.0 On the way we stopped at a pub at about 11.0, 3 of us went in for a bottle beer and the driver stayed in the car, after a couple of bottles we set off again. The drivet said did we fancy another but we hadnt got a carry out but he opened the boot and there were 2 cratez in there, the dray had been delivering and he helped himself to the crates. At the races i had a decent day having backed the Pigeon as i always did but one of the others won £800 and after racing we shot off tto Slough dogs where he lost the lot. When we got back i stayed at one of the chaps house for the night and i was that worried that he might get my keys as they my shop key on them and go and rob the shop so i slept with the keys in my underpants, uncomfortable but nothing happened. Still see one of the guys around the town occasionally and he was on Jeremy Kyle at one stage, not really a surprise. |
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Mac
The last i remember was in the Whitney colours was a filly who broke down in the oaks called scimitarra not 100% she was his,can’t think of any since I should think he has popped it now . Glentoby You certainly started watching the champion hurdle in its strongest era the first I saw live was sea pigeons first win ,it would still be right up there with my favourite festival memories. |
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It was certainly a magical era for hurdlers foxy.As for the Pigeon,you have to believe that he was bit of a rogue going by certain comments about JF "Smuggling" him into the race.I don't subscribe to that,he had a huge amount of guts and knew how to battle,to this day if push came to shove I would still be undecided between him and Night Nurse as my all time fav.
What I will say is that I am convinced Harchibald would have won had JF been on his back instead of Carberry regardless of what Carberry has said since,what do you reckon? |
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Foxy
John Hay (Jock) Whitney was the US ambassador to UK and died in 1982. In America he and his sister Joan inherited the famous Greentree Stables (Sea Pigeon was actually born there) upon the death of their mother Helen Hay Whitney in 1944. Joan died in 1975 and Jock in 1982 and their heirs later sold Greentree to Gainesway Farm in 1989. John Cherry was another decent hurdler who began life in the famous Whitney colours. A lot of decent horses ran in his colours for Jeremy Tree but can`t think of a G1 winner to have carried them in UK. Blackbarn will know who the colours are registered with now. |
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I well remember John Cherry,MM,my mate of the Night Nurse bet had him down as a Champion Hurdle winner of the future,never quite lived up to the ability he obviously possessed.
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Glen your mate wasn`t the only one who had John Cherry down as a future Champion hurdler. Milton Ritzenberg paid BIG money to buy him from Jock Whitney to go hurdling with Harry Thomson Jones (I think).
He didn`t quite live up to expectations but unless my memory is playing tricks on me, his record over hurdles wasn`t too bad. It would be interesting to see his jumps record. I remember him easily winning the Cesarewitch under a big weight with Lester up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySPyZEDeIsg |
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Royal Relief won the Nottingham Champion Chase in 1971. It was a new race first run in 1970 when the tearaway Even Keel won it at 4/9 from 2 others by 20 lengths and 'bad'. Even Keel had not long turned 8, but it was his 18th win over obstacles.
Even Keel was expected to follow up in the 1971 race, but Ken Oliver decided to re-route him, and with 2 other non-runners (including Titus Oates), it was reduced to a 3-runner affair, and a virtual match between Royal Relief and the high-class WA Stephenson hurdler, Celtic Gold. The latter never really took to fences though, and having fallen in his previous race, he came down 4 out just as he had joined the 12yo Muir for the lead (he was remounted for 3rd). The race was lost to the weather in 1972, and won by Tingle Creek in '73 and '74. Both were 2-runner affairs. 1974 was a virtual walkover with SPs of 1/5 and 4/1, but 1973 should have been interesting as his rival was another high class front-runner in Clear Cut - they went off 8/13 and 6/4. Clear Cut had probably never had to go up against anything like the 7yo Tingle Creek though, and he came down at the 2nd fence, being remounted to come home for a share of the prize money. It would seem the Nottingham exec felt obliged to make some changes to the race, it having attracted just 10 runners in 4 runnings, and in 1975, the race name was unchanged, but was confined to novices, and the distance upped to 2m 6f. It was won by GWR's high class novice Tamalin, ridden by Ron Barry, with his usual jockey JJ O'Neill (who'd won 10 races on him) off with a broken leg. GW did assure reporters afterwards that the horse was still "little John's ride". Tamalin went on to be 2nd in the Sun Alliance Chase at Cheltenham (re-arranged to April) to Pengrail, a horse who hadn't been in the original race that was meant to follow Ten Up's Gold Cup, but the ground was considered too bad to continue the card. Tamalin was 2nd fav for both instances, and in the original he would have had to have gone up against Brown Lad rather than Pengrail. |
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Some great jumpers mentioned in that post Ged. Celtic Gold was a fav of mine.
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I remember Ten Up winning one of the Military races Ged,76 or 77 I think? Ridden by Captain Hodges who was stationed in the barracks opposite me at 47 Light Regt,RA.I was then at 657 Sqn Army Air Corps at McMunn Barracks,Colchester.Seemed the whole Garrison was on and the bookies took a real pasting.
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Pf course Harchibald should have won. My abiding memory after the race was of Alistair Down chanting morons, morons at the people heckling carberry after the race St Alistair, the stone thrower
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John Cherry won the Long Walk Hurdle at Ascot in 1978 and 1979, then finished second to Derring Rose in 1980, after which he was retired. Those were far and away his best runs over hurdles. He never ran anywhere near his best round Cheltenham.
The Timeform comment on his novice season says that he was ante post third favourite for the Champion Hurdle before he had ever jumped a hurdle in public. He won his first two starts as a novice, but didn't go on after that and ended his first season rated 130 by Timeform. |
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Some terrific posts on here which keep the memories flooding back.So many of the horses' names are still very familiar it seems impossible that they were racing around 40/50 years ago .
Whilst I certainly remember Hatton Grace (probably from old racing diaries which listed the winners of major races) I have to point out that I don't remember the horse racing. I was born in 1949 the same year he won his first CH ! |
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Quiet Fling was a good horse of Whitney's,won the coronation cup under Lester.
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whilst looking at the form of some of those mentioned, I was shocked that kadastrof was running in the mid-90s, seems like only yesterday!! christ this coronavirus is screwing up all concepts of time!!
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It's a Kadastrofee.
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Good morning glentoby
I am the wrong person to ask about regarding would harchibald had won that champion hurdle (the most incredible race I’ve seen )with John francome on board ,as I was a huge fan of hardy eustace in fact I was meant to go and seem him on April 27 th taking my hardy eustace hat of I have to admit it wouldn’t have been a negative,poor harchibald had to get up a hill and not only have to pass hardy but brave Inca as well,in a nutshell it’s impossible ever to be sure about the likes of harchibald that’s another reason we love the game. |
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morning foxy - it's interesting that pat never got the same amount of flak for el gran senor as paul on harchibald, both were similar sorts of ride, personally I always like my fancies to be kicked on at least 1f out on flat or before last hurdle/fence over jumps, if they don't stay or are too rogueish to get home then at least you'll find out
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I suppose a different era Gordon, then throw Greville on Dancing Brave into the mix, there were no forums back in the 80's
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true but there are enough on here who remember those days - personally I was on Secreto so right outcome!! for a horse which the maestro Vincent O'Brien rated highly, his stud career was very disappointing..of course Greville's ride on Dancing Brave is one of the most painful to recall, but totally different scenario to the other two
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Thanks Anorak for the John Cherry hurdles history.
And Ribero. I had forgotten about Quiet Fling a decent horse indeed. |
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Mr Frisk won at Nottingham on Feb 21 1987
Sabin Du Loir won at Wolves on Nov 24 1986 |