Regulators closing in on Insider Trading

Insider trading and front running is still rife and where such huge sums are at stake it will never be eliminated.

The industry itself supports front running by allowing the co-location of hedge fund servers within the same data centre as the exchange servers, for a handsome fee!

Insider trading in financial instruments has been illegal for decades.  Getting publicly available info earlier than the competition has been legal for centuries:

The Venetians, pleased that they could see incoming merchant vessels two hours ahead of their competition (and therefore get a jump on the market) gave Galileo a considerable pay raise.

https://snews.bnl.gov/popsci/telescope.html

I do not see that one can read across from financial services to gambling here, when the Gambling Act 2005 explicitly states:

"A transaction that relates to the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process may be a bet within the meaning of subsection (1) despite the facts that—
(a)the race, competition, event or process has already occurred or been completed, and
(b)one party to the transaction knows the outcome."

is Willie Finnish iyo?

@longbridge that doesn't make any comment as to legality, it just defines those scenarios as being gambling under the Act.  IIRC someone said that the GC said that it was significant, but I think they are wrong.

Longbridge
It wouldn’t surprise me if much of the gambling act was to be re-written. All political parties have been rallying on the ticket of regulation in the betting industry being to lapse.
The very idea that betting on the outcome of an event where the result is known is somehow permissible is counter to all logic of transparency.

The problem is not the Act it is the GC.

dusty you get rid of track players that doesn't stop the problem the main thing that's killing i/r i.m.o is facetime simple as that how do you stop that? I've spoken to a few i/r players most of the people selling the pictures are people working at the race course's who have access to live feeds

The regulation should cover the source of the pictures as they all come from the same place then branch off to legal and illegal suppliers.
It’s my view you could do it at the point the transmissions are split, one goes into the course loop while the other gets converted to a stream for the internet.
You simply regulate to enforce the track feed gets an imposed delay to bring it in line with all off course pics.
0.5-1.0s, create an additional loop it has to go through, you can set the delay easily on production equipment.

For all those people who don’t like this idea have already accepted a delay on certain TVs on course while artificially allowing certain ones unilaterally to get a fast feed....for money.

Would it not be sorted out if the exchanges withdrew the in running facility?

They could do that foxy, by throwing the baby out with the bath water, but why stop there in that case? Why not withdraw betting then in it’s entirety?

When the solution is staring them in the face and is easily implemented the only reason not too is because the tracks pretend 0.5s in the hospitality boxes would effect experience.

Yeah, it would stop insider trading.

Why do you need to stop betting entirely dusty ?

You don’t, that’s my point
You asked wouldn’t stopping IR be the solution.
You arn’t suggesting betting as a whole isn’t without it’s...issues are you foxy?

Agree with foxy. Just remove the in running facility.

Dusty

Pre race betting has been around a long time on the whole I have great trust in it,if I didn’t I wouldn’t have survived so long.

Dusty

I realise people make money from it but I don’t use the facility in the way others do ,I do sometimes put something in pre race if I have had a bet ,that’s never done me much good as I only seem to lay the ones that go on to win,I have never understood how the bha or gc have allowed people to lay horses that are already on the deck or worse still.however each to there own.

Dec 19, 2019 -- 12:13PM, sparrow wrote:

Agree with foxy. Just remove the in running facility.

football tennis cricket golf etc as well?

if the regulator wanted i/r to be a level playing they would have followed the same protocol as Australia where track playing is banned and facetimers arrested on site, what would you do with USA racing? where pictures are 3 seconds behind on lv? Betfair should be doing more what I can't understand is why Betfair don't have a direct feed from every course to make the pictures faster but at the end of the day it's all about money look at Ireland, for example, January they told people pictures would take 8 weeks to get up to speed were now in December you just have to laugh

Foxy
Im simply asking the question; how can 1 regulator deem the actions serious enough to investigate while another acts with willful ignorce at the same thing in effect?

In the article it says 'Being able to hear the press conference early would provide an unfair advantage.'

Well not only do people pay for fast audio access to racing they pay for the actual pictures too, and there is little subjective about the first horse crossing the finish line like there is simply about comments regarding BofE press releases and their effects.

willful ignorance

dusty did't you once use facetime pictures you got from wazza? so i dont understand how you can call for a level playing field if you had the chance to have a faster feed than anybody else you'd jump at the chance i use facetime pictures from an office in leeds without them i'd probably give up and go back to work siting at my desk watching horses for 80 hours a week or have a faster feed i think i'll chosse the latter.

To be honest dusty I probably don’t understand much about it all as I say I just bet the old fashion way.

1, yes I had them for a few months, they are still available now but I dont access them
(quite why having to try and keep up with the unfairness discrepancy by having to resort to illicit supply, and ultimately choosing not has to do with the origin of that unfairness is lost on me stayinin)
2, Why wouldnt everyone want a level playing field? If anyone says they dont then they should be asked 'why not?'
3, I dont jump at the chance to access ft

Bar the Irish tracks, facetime are not that great tbh.

If/when the irish pics speed up the @rse will fall out of facetime except for a select few who cant live without them

Racing is bent , most aspects of it , crooked to the core , but no different than everything else , politics etc , lol

dave1357 19 Dec 19 12:21 
Dec 19, 2019 -- 12:13PM, sparrow wrote:

Agree with foxy. Just remove the in running facility.


football tennis cricket golf etc as well?


If people consider it necessary then yes.

Dec 19, 2019 -- 12:28PM, dustybin wrote:

FoxyIm simply asking the question; how can 1 regulator deem the actions serious enough to investigate while another acts with willful ignorce at the same thing in effect?In the article it says 'Being able to hear the press conference early would provide an unfair advantage.'Well not only do people pay for fast audio access to racing they pay for the actual pictures too, and there is little subjective about the first horse crossing the finish line like there is simply about comments regarding BofE press releases and their effects.

The system storing the info was hacked. Simply being the first to see public info is not illegal.  The equivalent racing situation would be for example bugging the stewards' or judges' room. 

Betting live at the racecourse is never going to be prohibited and access to fast pictures is only going to be subject to copyright laws.  It's time you simply accepted that.

Don't think the vast majority think it's necessary, more just the people who don't know how to use it or make it play in running.

dusty if they made it a level playing field what would that do to the people paying 40% comission?  it would wipe most out of the game.pc charge should be the first thing that goes, facetime pictures ain't great but for some track's there a gold mine JD wolverhampton and southwell slowed the bflv feed down for home players to give the track players more of an unfair advantage if the people running the tracks cheat what chance has the man in the street got? everybody wants a slice of the pie and theres not enough to go round

dave
The regulator isnt looking at whether the infringement was on the rights holders....they are looking at the significance of early access to information with means to profit.

For the same reason the press at those press releases cant sit trading on the LSE

Stayinin.......where is the office in Leeds ?   i used to live and go to the office in Leeds until it shut down. Is there a new one ?

stayinin the discrepency of integrity is the question and for that reason regulation of the medium used for the purposes of betting should be sufficiently regulated.

Betting live at the racecourse is never going to be prohibited and access to fast pictures is only going to be subject to copyright laws.  It's time you simply accepted that.

Its the unilateral offering of a select access to privilege. The only screens on course that are not somehow delayed are the ones provided those who pay for such access.

The equivalent racing situation would be for example bugging the stewards' or judges' room.

often wondered, in this day and age how easy would it be with transmitters

Dec 19, 2019 -- 1:10PM, dustybin wrote:

daveThe regulator isnt looking at whether the infringement was on the rights holders....they are looking at the significance of early access to information with means to profit.For the same reason the press at those press releases cant sit trading on the LSE

The system was hacked in order to get the access.  That is a criminal offence as is all other insider trading in financial instruments.

dave
The RCA are the financial ombudsman, they are looking at the insider trading proposition of having access to such information brings. The fact that it was hacked is the misnomer, other than to say the people who got it as a result were not the ones who were trustworthy enough not to abuse it.

"dusty if they made it a level playing field what would that do to the people paying 40% comission?  it would wipe most out of the game.pc charge should be the first thing that goes"

"everybody wants a slice of the pie and theres not enough to go round"


I'd prefer a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. I'd prefer a level playing field (and we all have our own definition of that I'm sure) than see the 40% go though fantasy land stuff is both. I'd prefer in running to be as healthy and sustainable as possible in the long term as I think that's in my benefit. It's insane to think anybody would be 'wiped out'. They would make less but have less expenses and if they were any good be like me.

sludge it's 15 minutes drive from leeds train station only 5 people including myself it's been going around a year i only found out about 4 months ago talking to someone at the dogs its not advertised because of illegal stearms i remember the old one it was taylors i think

dusty if someone offerd you an edge on the market would you say no i want a level playing field? look at the survey the bootman did with the picture latecy 1.6 secounds behind live is freighting looking at the difference no wounder the markets are dying

This isnt a question as to the honesty or otherwise of people offered such positions. Its about whether they should be available at all. Its about 1 regulator taking a very serious view of insider trading (which is punishable by imprisonment) on the one hand, and another regulator looking the other way filing their nails pretending it isnt happening.

Stayinin.........thanks for that. Yes i was at Andy Taylors for 5 or 6 years.  I am going to send u a private message if thats ok ?

Dec 19, 2019 -- 1:24PM, dustybin wrote:

daveThe RCA are the financial ombudsman, they are looking at the insider trading proposition of having access to such information brings. The fact that it was hacked is the misnomer, other than to say the people who got it as a result were not the ones who were trustworthy enough not to abuse it.

This is just utter drivel.  It's called the FCA.  The Financial Ombudsman is a different organisation.  Insider trading is illegal and described as using privileged price sensitive info before it is released to the market.  Being first to take advantage of public info is not illegal.

No one in any position of authority gives a f-ck about fast pictures and it is never going to change.

this goes on in city trading rooms all the time. when an important figure is announced all the traders are loaded up on their ladders ready to buy or sell. its over in a second or 2. the announcer, who relays the numbers is often bribed to let one floor or group have it 2 seconds early, which is plenty. and im not talking about betfair numbers, but tens of millions

dave1357 Joined: 05 Sep 10
Replies: 1152819 Dec 19 14:03 
No one in any position of authority gives a f-ck about fast pictures and it is never going to change.




Almost certainly the case.

Insider trading is illegal and described as using privileged price sensitive info before it is released to the market

The audio is reserved as a back up, the market announcement is the one released. The audio wasnt supposed to be accessed and it is ahead of the official released one...that is why the regulator is looking into it (for the advantages it allows).
You are agreeing that they take insider trading seriously, yet for some reason ignoring that this is insider trading using information that is ahead of the market release.

It is corrct the FCA isnt the ombudsman I wrongly wrote ombusdman meaning they arnt looking into copyright infringement

dustsy..the greta thunberg of the sports industry..

WAC

dusty..the greta thunberg of the sports industry..

WAC

WS doesnt want a level playing field....he'd have to go back to putting his arm down other people's bogs

have you lobbied downing st yet?

The regulators do their own job, if they are starting to wake up to abuses its their own doing not mine

bolting the stable door blah blah...

aye you should thank your lucky stars you got a pot of gold out of it.
If it were on a level how'd you think you'd have done?

hypothetical..nee idea.

stayinin 19 Dec 19 13:48 
dusty if someone offerd you an edge on the market would you say no i want a level playing field?

he wanted an edge..thats why he paid for facetime last yr..

What I wanted was to see what everyone was paying WS for

and it took you mths to grasp it?

well it wasnt great was it, I was waiting for it to come good

puts racecourses in a dilemma, they know they are encouraging insider trading receiving reward and charges could be brought maybe who knows but its only matter of time some exposure headline will come and will be the end of it thats guaranteed

Holy Fook Dont stop it ,

Can you imagine The I would have laid in running threads ,The Forum would be Finnish

Foxy: "I have never understood how the bha or gc have allowed people to lay horses that are already on the deck or worse still".
A few free lunches for the GC normally sorts that out foxy.

spread on age 11-14^

Dec 19, 2019 -- 3:18PM, know all wrote:

puts racecourses in a dilemma, they know they are encouraging insider trading receiving reward and charges could be brought maybe who knows but its only matter of time some exposure headline will come and will be the end of it thats guaranteed

more drivel.

lol i agree