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An audio feed of the BofE statements that are seconds ahead of the feed given to everyone else has been used by traders for early access of ‘insider’ information.
If the RCA are finally waking up to the fact this sort of thing goes on and if they deem it impermissible, then how can racecourses continue to sell premium trading opportunities to a limited number for privileged information when betting on the results of horse races?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50849479
If the RCA are finally waking up to the fact this sort of thing goes on and if they deem it impermissible, then how can racecourses continue to sell premium trading opportunities to a limited number for privileged information when betting on the results of horse races?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50849479
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Insider trading and front running is still rife and where such huge sums are at stake it will never be eliminated.
The industry itself supports front running by allowing the co-location of hedge fund servers within the same data centre as the exchange servers, for a handsome fee! |
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Insider trading in financial instruments has been illegal for decades. Getting publicly available info earlier than the competition has been legal for centuries:
The Venetians, pleased that they could see incoming merchant vessels two hours ahead of their competition (and therefore get a jump on the market) gave Galileo a considerable pay raise. https://snews.bnl.gov/popsci/telescope.html |
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I do not see that one can read across from financial services to gambling here, when the Gambling Act 2005 explicitly states:
"A transaction that relates to the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process may be a bet within the meaning of subsection (1) despite the facts that— (a)the race, competition, event or process has already occurred or been completed, and (b)one party to the transaction knows the outcome." |
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is Willie Finnish iyo?
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@longbridge that doesn't make any comment as to legality, it just defines those scenarios as being gambling under the Act. IIRC someone said that the GC said that it was significant, but I think they are wrong.
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Longbridge
It wouldn’t surprise me if much of the gambling act was to be re-written. All political parties have been rallying on the ticket of regulation in the betting industry being to lapse. The very idea that betting on the outcome of an event where the result is known is somehow permissible is counter to all logic of transparency. |
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The problem is not the Act it is the GC.
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dusty you get rid of track players that doesn't stop the problem the main thing that's killing i/r i.m.o is facetime simple as that how do you stop that? I've spoken to a few i/r players most of the people selling the pictures are people working at the race course's who have access to live feeds
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The regulation should cover the source of the pictures as they all come from the same place then branch off to legal and illegal suppliers.
It’s my view you could do it at the point the transmissions are split, one goes into the course loop while the other gets converted to a stream for the internet. You simply regulate to enforce the track feed gets an imposed delay to bring it in line with all off course pics. 0.5-1.0s, create an additional loop it has to go through, you can set the delay easily on production equipment. For all those people who don’t like this idea have already accepted a delay on certain TVs on course while artificially allowing certain ones unilaterally to get a fast feed....for money. |
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Would it not be sorted out if the exchanges withdrew the in running facility?
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They could do that foxy, by throwing the baby out with the bath water, but why stop there in that case? Why not withdraw betting then in it’s entirety?
When the solution is staring them in the face and is easily implemented the only reason not too is because the tracks pretend 0.5s in the hospitality boxes would effect experience.  Yeah, it would stop insider trading. |
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Why do you need to stop betting entirely dusty ?
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You don’t, that’s my point
You asked wouldn’t stopping IR be the solution. You arn’t suggesting betting as a whole isn’t without it’s...issues are you foxy? |
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Agree with foxy. Just remove the in running facility.
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Dusty
Pre race betting has been around a long time on the whole I have great trust in it,if I didn’t I wouldn’t have survived so long. |
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Dusty
I realise people make money from it but I don’t use the facility in the way others do ,I do sometimes put something in pre race if I have had a bet ,that’s never done me much good as I only seem to lay the ones that go on to win,I have never understood how the bha or gc have allowed people to lay horses that are already on the deck or worse still.however each to there own. |
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if the regulator wanted i/r to be a level playing they would have followed the same protocol as Australia where track playing is banned and facetimers arrested on site, what would you do with USA racing? where pictures are 3 seconds behind on lv? Betfair should be doing more what I can't understand is why Betfair don't have a direct feed from every course to make the pictures faster but at the end of the day it's all about money look at Ireland, for example, January they told people pictures would take 8 weeks to get up to speed were now in December you just have to laugh
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Foxy
Im simply asking the question; how can 1 regulator deem the actions serious enough to investigate while another acts with willful ignorce at the same thing in effect? In the article it says 'Being able to hear the press conference early would provide an unfair advantage.' Well not only do people pay for fast audio access to racing they pay for the actual pictures too, and there is little subjective about the first horse crossing the finish line like there is simply about comments regarding BofE press releases and their effects. |
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willful ignorance
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dusty did't you once use facetime pictures you got from wazza? so i dont understand how you can call for a level playing field if you had the chance to have a faster feed than anybody else you'd jump at the chance i use facetime pictures from an office in leeds without them i'd probably give up and go back to work siting at my desk watching horses for 80 hours a week or have a faster feed i think i'll chosse the latter.
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To be honest dusty I probably don’t understand much about it all as I say I just bet the old fashion way.
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1, yes I had them for a few months, they are still available now but I dont access them
(quite why having to try and keep up with the unfairness discrepancy by having to resort to illicit supply, and ultimately choosing not has to do with the origin of that unfairness is lost on me stayinin) 2, Why wouldnt everyone want a level playing field? If anyone says they dont then they should be asked 'why not?' 3, I dont jump at the chance to access ft |
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Bar the Irish tracks, facetime are not that great tbh.
If/when the irish pics speed up the @rse will fall out of facetime except for a select few who cant live without them |
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Racing is bent , most aspects of it , crooked to the core , but no different than everything else , politics etc , lol
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dave1357 19 Dec 19 12:21
Dec 19, 2019 -- 12:13PM, sparrow wrote: Agree with foxy. Just remove the in running facility. football tennis cricket golf etc as well? If people consider it necessary then yes. |
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Don't think the vast majority think it's necessary, more just the people who don't know how to use it or make it play in running.
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dusty if they made it a level playing field what would that do to the people paying 40% comission? it would wipe most out of the game.pc charge should be the first thing that goes, facetime pictures ain't great but for some track's there a gold mine JD wolverhampton and southwell slowed the bflv feed down for home players to give the track players more of an unfair advantage if the people running the tracks cheat what chance has the man in the street got? everybody wants a slice of the pie and theres not enough to go round
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dave
The regulator isnt looking at whether the infringement was on the rights holders....they are looking at the significance of early access to information with means to profit. For the same reason the press at those press releases cant sit trading on the LSE |
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Stayinin.......where is the office in Leeds ? i used to live and go to the office in Leeds until it shut down. Is there a new one ?
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stayinin the discrepency of integrity is the question and for that reason regulation of the medium used for the purposes of betting should be sufficiently regulated.
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Betting live at the racecourse is never going to be prohibited and access to fast pictures is only going to be subject to copyright laws. It's time you simply accepted that.
Its the unilateral offering of a select access to privilege. The only screens on course that are not somehow delayed are the ones provided those who pay for such access. |
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The equivalent racing situation would be for example bugging the stewards' or judges' room.
often wondered, in this day and age how easy would it be with transmitters |
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dave
The RCA are the financial ombudsman, they are looking at the insider trading proposition of having access to such information brings. The fact that it was hacked is the misnomer, other than to say the people who got it as a result were not the ones who were trustworthy enough not to abuse it. |
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"dusty if they made it a level playing field what would that do to the people paying 40% comission? it would wipe most out of the game.pc charge should be the first thing that goes"
"everybody wants a slice of the pie and theres not enough to go round" I'd prefer a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. I'd prefer a level playing field (and we all have our own definition of that I'm sure) than see the 40% go though fantasy land stuff is both. I'd prefer in running to be as healthy and sustainable as possible in the long term as I think that's in my benefit. It's insane to think anybody would be 'wiped out'. They would make less but have less expenses and if they were any good be like me. |
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sludge it's 15 minutes drive from leeds train station only 5 people including myself it's been going around a year i only found out about 4 months ago talking to someone at the dogs its not advertised because of illegal stearms i remember the old one it was taylors i think
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dusty if someone offerd you an edge on the market would you say no i want a level playing field? look at the survey the bootman did with the picture latecy 1.6 secounds behind live is freighting looking at the difference no wounder the markets are dying
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